Cast bullets for personal defense?

[David LaPell]

I know the hollowpoint is supposedly king for personal defense, but why not cast bullets too? I don't mean the old lead round nose jobs like the .38 Special's 158 grainer that the factory used to load, but how about some decent bullets like the #358156? The #358429? What about the #429421 in hollowpoint or cast in a .44 Special? What about the #452424 in .45 Colt? I would think all of these cast not too hard would be ideal for personal defense and would cost alot less than jacketed hollow points.

 

[Doug M.]

Go read Jim Cirillo's books. He advocated full WC and SWC for many such uses. I would certainly be comfortable with such.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I cast bullets. I have hollow point versions of a bunch of them. Guess what, if I cast it, I load it in my personal defense loads too.

In the 45ACP, here is what I use:

What do you think about that?

This is a solid clone of an RCBS 45-270SAA and throws a 280gr bullet. It is designed for the 45 Colt and though this picture is of a solid, there are hollow point pins available for this mould. I usually don't carry a 45 Colt for self defense, unless it is while I am hunting with a rifle. Here:

Those puppies loaded to 1000fps or more SURELY they would work for self defense. Even against bears!

Just sayin'

 

[Ziptar]

I have that same mold, I didn't order it with the pins as I prefer Solids. The 270-SAA is my favorite bullet. If I could only have one, it would be the 270-SAA. Loaded over 9 or 10 grains of Unique, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on anything 2 or 4 legged outside of African big game.

 

[ronnie gore]

bullets

i have been carrying my cast lead semi-wadcutters in 38-357 and 44 mag, 44 special, 45 colt, 45 auto rim, and 41 mag for years.
also after working homicides for 20 years it is my opinion that hollow points don't work most of the time, a semi-wadcuttter works the same every time.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I'm thinking these in some downloaded .44 magnum or specials would ruin a BG's day...

I don't have any loaded right now, but they were great in the 29-5...

 

[David Sinko]

I agree completely with ronnie gore. Solids offer better and more reliable performance. From what I have seen on the street, the performance of the so-called modern hi-tech hollowpoints leaves much to be desired. I will add that this is mostly due to political considerations. Much of our modern ammo lacks velocity because the manufacturers are terrified of loading ammo that is actually capable of shooting through a human.

Dave Sinko

 

[Shooting Padre]

Heads up here. I would use nothing but a commercial self defense load. If you ever have to use your weapon, the prosecuting attorney will make self loaded rounds a huge issue.And there is huge chance you will wind up in some legal battle, criminal or civil. You all may think (including me) that we can produce the best rounds for our needs but remember, the shooting is only the first battle. The second round is fought in the courts. This was stressed at our CCW class. Just for your consideration. Thanks for the look.

 

[Erich]

I've discussed my use of my personal (cast bullet) handloads for defensive carry here many times, as well as my take as a lawyer on the legal issues that could accrue. Nutshell: I'm not concerned but I'm comfy in a courtroom; I gave my brother the same advice Mas gives and told him to carry factory loads.

All that aside, cast bullets are great for a lot of defensive purposes.

These bullets were a gift from our Mr. "Sacket"

And some from NKJ Nut's Tennessee Valley Bullets:

 

[pete950]

I cast bullets. I have hollow point versions of a bunch of them. Guess what, if I cast it, I load it in my personal defense loads too.

In the 45ACP, here is what I use:

What do you think about that?

This is a solid clone of an RCBS 45-270SAA and throws a 280gr bullet. It is designed for the 45 Colt and though this picture is of a solid, there are hollow point pins available for this mould. I usually don't carry a 45 Colt for self defense, unless it is while I am hunting with a rifle. Here:

Those puppies loaded to 1000fps or more SURELY they would work for self defense. Even against bears!

Just sayin'

Skip
Those 45's look just like Win silver tips!!!

 

[venomballistics]

RN designs rank dead last for effective administration of heavy metal supplements.
you want a cast flat or hollow point.
about the only time I'd use a RN is if my SD gun was a picky eater and wont feed anything else .. but then, I'd get a different gun.

 

[Rule3]

I've discussed my use of my personal (cast bullet) handloads for defensive carry here many times, as well as my take as a lawyer on the legal issues that could accrue. Nutshell: I'm not concerned but I'm comfy in a courtroom; I gave my brother the same advice Mas gives and told him to carry factory loads.

All that aside, cast bullets are great for a lot of defensive purposes.

These bullets were a gift from our Mr. "Sacket"

And some from NKJ Nut's Tennessee Valley Bullets:

Ewwww, they are so BIG!!!

 

[Skip Sackett]

Skip
Those 45's look just like Win silver tips!!!

Thanks, Pete!

They shoot like a house afire! They even chamber and shoot to MOBG (minute of bad guy) @ 50 yards from my Thompson 1927-T1! Not only that, they look cooler than all get out at the range when you shoot it out of it too! Or maybe its me that looks cool shooting it! WHATEVER! haha

 

[Skip Sackett]

These bullets were a gift from our Mr. "Sacket"

I like those bullets too Erich! In fact, my daughter has a M637 with them in it right now, as we speak!

 

[fredj338]

I would never load my own ammo for SD, except under a SHTF scenario or if I lived in a non HP state like NJ. If I did load my own, these would certainly do the job as well as any high tech JHP. FOr NJ, a soft lead FP w/ a large meplate would be a pretty good fight stopper, especially somethin like the 200grLFP from Lee.

 

[venomballistics]

Im rather torn on the issue of SD handloads versus factory.
back in the DC sniper thing, the Media did have a little with pointing out lethal combinations used to create the ammo used .... dont know if that ever made it into the court proceedings or not, but it is food for thought as it was given a good dishonest try.
then I look at what comes out of a factory box versus what comes off my press ... yeah the numbers differ a little ... mine are a little more potent, at least as reliable and all go into a smaller circle down range. which is enough to really torment me as I'd much rather carry this than factory.

 

[gwalchmai]

I know the hollowpoint is supposedly king for personal defense, but why not cast bullets too? I don't mean the old lead round nose jobs like the .38 Special's 158 grainer that the factory used to load...

You could ask Lee Harvey Oswald about the old 158gr LRN. Except he never regained consciousness.

 

[jimkim]

I'm glad I'm not the only one with frosty bullets. lol They look great to me. I have a Lyman 425374 four cavity mould I'm thinking of having hollow pointed. I think any bullet with a large meplat doesn't need it.

 

[Rule3]

With projectiles in the 40 caliber range and the overall scheme of things does it really matter if it's lead, flat, hollow, fmj?? a 45 is a big hole either way. So to me a LSWC would work just fine.

 

[mkk41]

Don't know how many self-defense shootings you guys get into on a regular basis , but 1 box of top shelf factory hollow points should last the average person a lifetime.

 

[sbeatty1983]

Heads up here. I would use nothing but a commercial self defense load. If you ever have to use your weapon, the prosecuting attorney will make self loaded rounds a huge issue.And there is huge chance you will wind up in some legal battle, criminal or civil. You all may think (including me) that we can produce the best rounds for our needs but remember, the shooting is only the first battle. The second round is fought in the courts. This was stressed at our CCW class. Just for your consideration. Thanks for the look.

any hard data to back that up? I could understand if you were doing something off the wall like cyanide tipped handloads or something like that but a conventional bullet handloaded would most likely never even be noticed as a handload instead of a factory load. I carry handloads in my carry guns and never think twice about it.

 

[venomballistics]

Don't know how many self-defense shootings you guys get into on a regular basis , but 1 box of top shelf factory hollow points should last the average person a lifetime.

top shelf of floor sweepings matters little.
if for any reason they fail to feed or fail to go where intended any SD shoot one my be involved in will guarantee the box of factory will last a lifetime

at present I carry factory ... but I cannot seem to set aside the performance of my handloads being a good bit better.

 

[GregG]

Heads up here. I would use nothing but a commercial self defense load. If you ever have to use your weapon, the prosecuting attorney will make self loaded rounds a huge issue.And there is huge chance you will wind up in some legal battle, criminal or civil. You all may think (including me) that we can produce the best rounds for our needs but remember, the shooting is only the first battle. The second round is fought in the courts. This was stressed at our CCW class. Just for your consideration. Thanks for the look.

I agree with you 100%, but I don't trust factory ammo when my life is at stake. I've had rounds not go bang before. Dud primers I guess. BTW that's one of the reasons I like a revolver for SD, if a round doesn't ignite I can pull the trigger and have a fresh round under the hammer.

I guess I *could* buy some factory ammo, pull it down and change the primers out, but then it's a handload.

The small boutique ammo companies only sell max loads for my SD caliber, .41 Magnum. For instance Buffalo Bore has a 265 gr. cast at 1350 fps, a Keith 230 gr. at 1450 fps, and a 170 gr. hollowpoint at 1650 fps. Too much steam for me.

If they made a 210 cast at 950, like the old police load, I'd buy it.

 

[Erich]

Hey Greg,

Don't know if you've got a .41 "Special" loading that you like for your purposes, but I found that 7.5 gr 7625, Remington cases, CCI large standard primer, 215-gr TVB LSWC hardcasts, moderate roll crimp would throw bullets at just over 1k fps (like a laser, of course) from a the 4" barrel, with deviations less than 15 fps. Very pleasant round, and what I kept in the gun for "social purposes."

 

[GregG]

Thanks Erich. How is the muzzle flash with that load?

Right now I have some 210 XTP's loaded with AA9. Accurate load, and low flash. The load I'm using is a 2-3 grs. down from max (depending on the book you look at).

 

[SKS52]

The group buy mold form NOE that me and acl864 went in together on went into the mail today. You can bet this bullet will be in the chamber of my 357's. It has two crimp grooves one for 38 and one for 357 loads.

 

[Paul5388]

I got into a little discussion with Massad Ayood once upon a time (2008) and clearly demonstrated the low GSR argument isn't valid, which was a primary point in the one case where a handload was even a factor. Here's the only remaining picture from that episode.

A super light load of Bullseye ( the perp claimed it was a light target load) shot at 3 feet left GSR on the white paper. The victim didn't have any GSR, even though she supposedly shot herself.

Note: it was a super light target load, not some monster super lethal load.

The whole thing is just like Don Quixote jousting with windmills! There never has been a case where the lethality of a handload was a factor in the case proceedings.

It's the same as the bogus "unique" lead composition identifying a given box of factory ammunition, i.e. bad science on both accounts.

BTW, I tend to prefer buckshot at home, but everything else is handloads.

 

[Skip Sackett]

He has made millions off of spouting that case as THE definitive answer to this thread hijack.

The truth be known, a murderer got manslaughter for his crimes. Now, he hunts with a bow or smoke pole.

And we keep giving up freedoms with no rule of law, just scare tactics from the enemy! Stupid.

 

[Warren Sear]

I know a lot of folks are very proud of their handloads, but in my 30 years of shooting experience I have witnessed multiple times more failures with handloads compared to factory loaded ammo.

Also, what does "GSR" mean, anywhose?

 

[Warren Sear]

You could ask Lee Harvey Oswald about the old 158gr LRN. Except he never regained consciousness.

Oswald was not only unarmed, but also restrained by the police. He could not return fire, slash with a knife, etc. He died alright, but not for some time after being shot.

158 gr LRN can stop an opponent. Eventually.