Cast bullets for personal defense?

[sbeatty1983]

Heads up here. I would use nothing but a commercial self defense load. If you ever have to use your weapon, the prosecuting attorney will make self loaded rounds a huge issue.And there is huge chance you will wind up in some legal battle, criminal or civil. You all may think (including me) that we can produce the best rounds for our needs but remember, the shooting is only the first battle. The second round is fought in the courts. This was stressed at our CCW class. Just for your consideration. Thanks for the look.

any hard data to back that up? I could understand if you were doing something off the wall like cyanide tipped handloads or something like that but a conventional bullet handloaded would most likely never even be noticed as a handload instead of a factory load. I carry handloads in my carry guns and never think twice about it.

 

[venomballistics]

Don't know how many self-defense shootings you guys get into on a regular basis , but 1 box of top shelf factory hollow points should last the average person a lifetime.

top shelf of floor sweepings matters little.
if for any reason they fail to feed or fail to go where intended any SD shoot one my be involved in will guarantee the box of factory will last a lifetime

at present I carry factory ... but I cannot seem to set aside the performance of my handloads being a good bit better.

 

[GregG]

Heads up here. I would use nothing but a commercial self defense load. If you ever have to use your weapon, the prosecuting attorney will make self loaded rounds a huge issue.And there is huge chance you will wind up in some legal battle, criminal or civil. You all may think (including me) that we can produce the best rounds for our needs but remember, the shooting is only the first battle. The second round is fought in the courts. This was stressed at our CCW class. Just for your consideration. Thanks for the look.

I agree with you 100%, but I don't trust factory ammo when my life is at stake. I've had rounds not go bang before. Dud primers I guess. BTW that's one of the reasons I like a revolver for SD, if a round doesn't ignite I can pull the trigger and have a fresh round under the hammer.

I guess I *could* buy some factory ammo, pull it down and change the primers out, but then it's a handload.

The small boutique ammo companies only sell max loads for my SD caliber, .41 Magnum. For instance Buffalo Bore has a 265 gr. cast at 1350 fps, a Keith 230 gr. at 1450 fps, and a 170 gr. hollowpoint at 1650 fps. Too much steam for me.

If they made a 210 cast at 950, like the old police load, I'd buy it.

 

[Erich]

Hey Greg,

Don't know if you've got a .41 "Special" loading that you like for your purposes, but I found that 7.5 gr 7625, Remington cases, CCI large standard primer, 215-gr TVB LSWC hardcasts, moderate roll crimp would throw bullets at just over 1k fps (like a laser, of course) from a the 4" barrel, with deviations less than 15 fps. Very pleasant round, and what I kept in the gun for "social purposes."

 

[GregG]

Thanks Erich. How is the muzzle flash with that load?

Right now I have some 210 XTP's loaded with AA9. Accurate load, and low flash. The load I'm using is a 2-3 grs. down from max (depending on the book you look at).

 

[SKS52]

The group buy mold form NOE that me and acl864 went in together on went into the mail today. You can bet this bullet will be in the chamber of my 357's. It has two crimp grooves one for 38 and one for 357 loads.

 

[Paul5388]

I got into a little discussion with Massad Ayood once upon a time (2008) and clearly demonstrated the low GSR argument isn't valid, which was a primary point in the one case where a handload was even a factor. Here's the only remaining picture from that episode.

A super light load of Bullseye ( the perp claimed it was a light target load) shot at 3 feet left GSR on the white paper. The victim didn't have any GSR, even though she supposedly shot herself.

Note: it was a super light target load, not some monster super lethal load.

The whole thing is just like Don Quixote jousting with windmills! There never has been a case where the lethality of a handload was a factor in the case proceedings.

It's the same as the bogus "unique" lead composition identifying a given box of factory ammunition, i.e. bad science on both accounts.

BTW, I tend to prefer buckshot at home, but everything else is handloads.

 

[Skip Sackett]

He has made millions off of spouting that case as THE definitive answer to this thread hijack.

The truth be known, a murderer got manslaughter for his crimes. Now, he hunts with a bow or smoke pole.

And we keep giving up freedoms with no rule of law, just scare tactics from the enemy! Stupid.

 

[Warren Sear]

I know a lot of folks are very proud of their handloads, but in my 30 years of shooting experience I have witnessed multiple times more failures with handloads compared to factory loaded ammo.

Also, what does "GSR" mean, anywhose?

 

[Warren Sear]

You could ask Lee Harvey Oswald about the old 158gr LRN. Except he never regained consciousness.

Oswald was not only unarmed, but also restrained by the police. He could not return fire, slash with a knife, etc. He died alright, but not for some time after being shot.

158 gr LRN can stop an opponent. Eventually.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Gun Shot Residue.

And, you need to change who you either hang with at the range or get a different system for those cartridges you load for yourself.

No, no one will but more care and love into making my defensive handloads than I will. Range fodder is a whole nuther issue. Apples and oranges, friend, apples and oranges.

 

[Dale53]

Warren;
You need to watch more TV(LOL)...

GSR means "Gun Shot Residue"...

Dale53

 

[gwalchmai]

Oswald was not only unarmed, but also restrained by the police. He could not return fire, slash with a knife, etc. He died alright, but not for some time after being shot.

158 gr LRN can stop an opponent. Eventually.

As will a .45 in many (documented) cases.

 

[Nick B]

I have that same mold, I didn't order it with the pins as I prefer Solids. The 270-SAA is my favorite bullet. If I could only have one, it would be the 270-SAA. Loaded over 9 or 10 grains of Unique, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on anything 2 or 4 legged outside of African big game.

Hey Zip: What brand of mold is that ?

 

[Skip Sackett]

Not zip but.........

Hey Zip: What brand of mold is that ?

Since he said we both have the same mould, while I am not him , I can tell you the manufacturer.

It is Miha Privec. He has a website: mp-molds.com.

These are purchased through a group buy on the Castboolits forum. There are a lot of different ones available too.

 

[Ziptar]

Since he said we both have the same mould, while I am not him , I can tell you the manufacturer.

It is Miha Privec. He has a website: mp-molds.com.

These are purchased through a group buy on the Castboolits forum. There are a lot of different ones available too.

Skip is correct.

It was a group buy mold over on the cast boolits forum from Miha of MP molds.

The group buy is over but, someone may restart another run of them eventually.

Just for comparisons sake, here they are with the Lee 452-255-RF.

 

[fredj338]

You could ask Lee Harvey Oswald about the old 158gr LRN. Except he never regained consciousness.

Or you could ask the widows of the many cops killed in the 60s shooting bad guys 4&5 times w/ the old 158grLRN, then being killed by theBG before they eithe died themeselves or made to to the ER. A LRN would be my second to last choice, FMJ being my last choice.

 

[fredj338]

Since he said we both have the same mould, while I am not him , I can tell you the manufacturer.

It is Miha Privec. He has a website: mp-molds.com.

These are purchased through a group buy on the Castboolits forum. There are a lot of different ones available too.

The original mold is a 2cav by RCBS. A great design, actually cast about 280gr as a solid from ww alloy. I have mine HP as well, makes 250gr-275gr LSWCHP, depending on the pin installed.

 

[gwalchmai]

Or you could ask the widows of the many cops killed in the 60s shooting bad guys 4&5 times w/ the old 158grLRN, then being killed by theBG before they eithe died themeselves or made to to the ER. A LRN would be my second to last choice, FMJ being my last choice.

LRN or FMJ wouldn't be my first or second choice, either, but they've each killed many people and I wouldn't want to be shot with one.

As to your 60s cops example, I doubt very many of those bad guys had "4&5" solid mass hits. We can also find examples of 45 JHPs not killing quickly.

All I'm saying is that I don't buy the internet legend of the .38 LRN not being a deadly round any more than I do the same thoughts about the 9mm.

And for the record, I usually carry hollow points.

 

[Erich]

Amen, gwalchmai. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. I've worked on cases where super-duper hollow points failed to stop people when they didn't hit in the right place, and I've worked on many DRT cases where FMJ bullets hit the X. There's no magic bullet. One thing hollow points can do is minimize penetration by applying the brakes - which is a great thing with a 9x19 or a .45 on a human assailant - and may be a terrible thing with a .380. Pick your poison and take your chances according to your assessment of your situation, but when folks start blanket-dismissing others' choices for the others' own situations (particularly when they do so by merely echoing things that they've read and parroted without experience in the field), they demonstrate themselves to be uninformed.