Protected One
Member
I'm tempted to ask if you're kidding, but I have strong feeling that you are not.
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Changing Carry Gun - Paris etc.
- Thread starter SpecRacer
- Start date
I'm tempted to ask if you're kidding, but I have strong feeling that you are not.
CAJUNLAWYER;138806194 Next HAVE ENOUGH GUNS. You should be carrying at least three in three different calibres. .22 on the ankle said:If the .45 doesn't solve the problem why would you want to change too a .380? I only have a 3rd grade education but my thinking is if the results are not satisfactory I need to go bigger instead of smaller. If a .45 doesn't solve the problem I want a .50.
Larry
Lee in Quartzsite
Member
Wow, just gave me an idea for a backup....pockets full of Pork Sausages. Just toss a couple at an attacker and watch him run. Maybe they should pass out ham sandwiches at border checkpoints to weed out those who will do us harm......
I think that the OP has a valid point here. While we are not looking to find ourselves in a battle, fate may in fact place us there at the least opportune moment.
I am not an alarmist, but a realist. I can only carry when I am traveling out of state with my non-resident CFP, since my home state has a policy paramount to treating criminals and other predators as members of endangered species.
Our society is making our communities predator rich environments, and no matter how much you try, there is no guarantee that you can avoid a dangerous encounter. My plan was to carry a J frame, but after Paris, my 439 is on deck, until my permit for the Commander comes in. Before anyone questions, I do have a fair degree of proficiency with all of the above.
My biggest concern, is protecting my children. Being a single parent, the likelihood is that they're going to be with me when it hits the fan. Having enough cover fire is fine, but ending the fight on a good note is paramount. I, personally, would be content with one or two well placed 45s versus a wall of 9s.
I am not an alarmist, but a realist. I can only carry when I am traveling out of state with my non-resident CFP, since my home state has a policy paramount to treating criminals and other predators as members of endangered species.
Our society is making our communities predator rich environments, and no matter how much you try, there is no guarantee that you can avoid a dangerous encounter. My plan was to carry a J frame, but after Paris, my 439 is on deck, until my permit for the Commander comes in. Before anyone questions, I do have a fair degree of proficiency with all of the above.
My biggest concern, is protecting my children. Being a single parent, the likelihood is that they're going to be with me when it hits the fan. Having enough cover fire is fine, but ending the fight on a good note is paramount. I, personally, would be content with one or two well placed 45s versus a wall of 9s.
In any active shooter/terrorist attack scenario, your best bet will almost always be to run and completely escape or at least get to cover. We could even talk about the viability of suppressive fire in certain scenarios, but it may very well define you as the immediate primary target and cause them to focus all their fire on you. I've seen several comments stating that a handgun is no match or totally ineffective against terrorists armed with AK's, but I think that's far from true. If you engage in an open area from 25-50 yards, then I'd say you are seriously outgunned, but it doesn't make any sense to do so no matter how you're armed. Run to escape/for cover and if they come to you and manage to find you, it will be close-quarters. Your handgun is not only viable, but it could actually be the more effective weapon depending on how close-quarters the specific scenario happens to be. At 0-5 feet indoors, we're essentially talking ambush and disarm and/or shooting them in the face. There's endless variables and irregardless, these events are still extremely rare and not what you're most likely to encounter as a civilian, so devote training time accordingly.
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p4KXNdyH_LY[/ame]
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p4KXNdyH_LY[/ame]
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Around here it's real weed
Great advice!
Some of this thread got a bit overblown with armed and armored terrorists. My concern for some more ammo and perhaps more powerful calibers is because life HAS changed. There used to be just one perp in a 7-11. Now their are 3 and 4. Same thing for carjackings, home invasions, etc. And now, jihadists. My first principles of defense are, 1.avoid, 2. run, 3 hide.
As for active shooters. I like running. As far and fast as my kids and grand kids can go. Active shooters shoot at the convenient and nearby. If it is not possible to completely exit, then hide in a defensible, close range position where the element of surprise is in ones favor. Wait at the ready and keep your head in. I have long ago made peace with my self in coming to the conclusion that I have no duty to my unarmed and thus unprepared neighbor, who may be being gunned down by the active shooter, just to me and mine. My neighbor can wait for the police, who are sure to enter the assaulted property in an hour or two to save them (ie. Columbine, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Paris theater etc.).
Squarebutt
Member
I recently saw a 30-minute interview with Abdul Haji, a hero of the jihadist siege at the Westlake Mall in Nairobi, Kenya a few years ago. A gang of Al Qaeda types hit the place with Kalashnikovs, and slaughtered 67. He had gone there to find his brother, but got caught up in the trouble. He and a few others were armed with pistols. They didn't try to shoot it out, but they were able to hold the shooters at bay and rescue dozens of shoppers for several hours. They moved carefully and picked up policemen and medics along the way. They all made it out, including his brother. The lesson learned is to know your limits, use good tactics and watch out for one another. There are several videos where he talks about that day. They're easy to find if you Google his name
From pocket to waist......
....and all the way to a sling over the shoulder.
I've been beefing up my arsenal with guns that are intended to work, not 'fun guns'. Something that will be carried and kept handy around the house and car.
....and all the way to a sling over the shoulder.
I've been beefing up my arsenal with guns that are intended to work, not 'fun guns'. Something that will be carried and kept handy around the house and car.
Well, I know that.....
I do know that the Shield is a small pistol that feels substantial and comfortable and a joy to shoot. I have a cheaper, lighter gun that hammers you so hard it's difficult to practice with.
I do know that the Shield is a small pistol that feels substantial and comfortable and a joy to shoot. I have a cheaper, lighter gun that hammers you so hard it's difficult to practice with.
Not bombers, but.....
More likely to get into a position as a hostage or a bystander to some armed action. Do you not do anything and most likely die, or take a chance and be maybe successful or maybe be dead.
More likely to get into a position as a hostage or a bystander to some armed action. Do you not do anything and most likely die, or take a chance and be maybe successful or maybe be dead.
Protected One
Member
The Shield has noticably more recoil than the Glock 42, but then being a 9mm as compared to a 380 you should expect that.
My wife has the Glock 42 and it is the softest shooting 380 I know of, but the Shield is ...IMO the ideal concealed carry gun on the market today.
I meant no offense. When I used the pronoun "you," I meant that as "you all", not "you" in particular. Admittedly, I should have used the pronoun "one." But when one uses that pronoun, especially when one uses it repeatedly, one begins to sound a bit stilted.
I was merely trying to point out that falling prey to the media histrionics will cause us to eventually lose our way. Our resources (very limited in my case) may be better spent contemplating things that are more plausible that we can actually do something about. An excellent and very succinct synopsis can be found on Claude Werner's site here: https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress...fundamentals-getting-our-priorities-straight/. He presents the point more clearly than I ever could.
windsearcher
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Ever since I obtained my CWP, I have tried to carry the largest handgun possible when considering the need to conceal vs what I am wearing vs environment.
Since many times I am in a "less permissable environment" that means needing to go from a larger double-stack to a smaller single stack. Many days I am with a Kahr CW 380 or CW40.
However, starting a couple years ago with the biker vs. SUV incident up in New York, I started trying very hard to carry a larger capacity gun more often.
If at all possible, I'm carrying a M&P9c with the flush mag with the extended mag in my pocket/belt... or an XDMc with flush mag and extended mag as backup.
With that however, there is now almost always a shotgun or AR in the trunk when I am travelling as well. If in the middle of an attack, these may not be able to do anything against a bomber/suicide vest at least against other threats I may now have more options.
Since many times I am in a "less permissable environment" that means needing to go from a larger double-stack to a smaller single stack. Many days I am with a Kahr CW 380 or CW40.
However, starting a couple years ago with the biker vs. SUV incident up in New York, I started trying very hard to carry a larger capacity gun more often.
If at all possible, I'm carrying a M&P9c with the flush mag with the extended mag in my pocket/belt... or an XDMc with flush mag and extended mag as backup.
With that however, there is now almost always a shotgun or AR in the trunk when I am travelling as well. If in the middle of an attack, these may not be able to do anything against a bomber/suicide vest at least against other threats I may now have more options.
How much will switching from the snubby .38 to a Shield, 3913, Sig 239 or M&P9c help?
1. 60-240% increase in round capacity.
2. 5 inch sight radius with real sights vs. a front blade
3. 2 second reloads vs. 5 seconds
4. Single action 6 lb pull vs double action 15 lb pull
5. Reasonable recoil vs YIKES!
6. And lastly, a 20 oz. club vs a 10 oz. club
Maybe a few have complained....
Maybe a few have complained about the shield but I've read literally hundreds of comments and nobody complains about their carryabiity, comfort shooting, concealability, weight, trigger pull, reliability (some probs but fixable). I heard this so much it made a believer out of me and I bought one myself and yep, it's all true. Now I've only handled an M&P 9mm compact in the store and I'm sure its a great gun that's easy to carry and is surely more comfortable to shoot but I find it to be a bit heavy for something I'd want to lug around. For people that are used to it it's probably an easy gun to carry, but I'm stove up and don't feel up to lugging something heavier than it absolutely has to be. The other end is a Kel tec I've got that's very small and only weighs 11 oz. but it's NO FUN to shoot. The thing hammers you bad and with defense grade ammo it hurts after a few shots. If I was up to carrying something a little heavier than a Shield the 9c would be great.
Maybe a few have complained about the shield but I've read literally hundreds of comments and nobody complains about their carryabiity, comfort shooting, concealability, weight, trigger pull, reliability (some probs but fixable). I heard this so much it made a believer out of me and I bought one myself and yep, it's all true. Now I've only handled an M&P 9mm compact in the store and I'm sure its a great gun that's easy to carry and is surely more comfortable to shoot but I find it to be a bit heavy for something I'd want to lug around. For people that are used to it it's probably an easy gun to carry, but I'm stove up and don't feel up to lugging something heavier than it absolutely has to be. The other end is a Kel tec I've got that's very small and only weighs 11 oz. but it's NO FUN to shoot. The thing hammers you bad and with defense grade ammo it hurts after a few shots. If I was up to carrying something a little heavier than a Shield the 9c would be great.
Also a 9.....
Also a 9mm has almost a 200 ft/sec velocity advantage over a .38 with a 125 gr. bullet.
If we are talking about a snub we have a 2" barrel with a cylinder gap. A Shield or other small semi has more like a 3" unvented barrel.
A revolver though, has a simplicity advantage over the semi pistol.
Also a 9mm has almost a 200 ft/sec velocity advantage over a .38 with a 125 gr. bullet.
If we are talking about a snub we have a 2" barrel with a cylinder gap. A Shield or other small semi has more like a 3" unvented barrel.
A revolver though, has a simplicity advantage over the semi pistol.
At the moment, I'm contemplating your statement while looking at a loaded Glock 26 and a loaded Smith & Wesson 60-14. I pick either one up and pull the trigger, and they go bang until the rounds are expended.
To reload the Glock, I depress the mag catch, remove the magazine if it didn't fall, replace the magazine, work the slide once and fire.
To reload the Smith, I move the cylinder release forward, switch hands, open the cylinder, depress the ejector rod, clear the rounds that didn't clear, insert a speed loader, activate the speed loader release, close the cylinder, switch hands, and fire . . .
Remind me again, which is simpler?
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The first five shots...
The first five shots out of my j frame are simple and I don't have to worry about misfeeds, FTEs, out of battery, whether or not I need to rack the slide or unlatch a safety (unless you carry ready to fire). All I EVER have to do with a DA revolver is pull the trigger. Now when I have to reload, you have me with your semi, I'll admit. Under real duress I doubt that I'd be able to load a revolver at all without a speed loader and a lot of practice. I'd probably be trying to pick bullets off the ground and putting some empty shells back in.
I was talking more about the simplicity of the mechanisms, not what it took to fire either one.
The first five shots out of my j frame are simple and I don't have to worry about misfeeds, FTEs, out of battery, whether or not I need to rack the slide or unlatch a safety (unless you carry ready to fire). All I EVER have to do with a DA revolver is pull the trigger. Now when I have to reload, you have me with your semi, I'll admit. Under real duress I doubt that I'd be able to load a revolver at all without a speed loader and a lot of practice. I'd probably be trying to pick bullets off the ground and putting some empty shells back in.
I was talking more about the simplicity of the mechanisms, not what it took to fire either one.
Yiogo
US Veteran
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Muss, that is a complicated revolver loading procedure. Agreed.
Loading a semi is a little easier but the revolver is not as complicated to load as some think.
I've trained with my J this way.
(1) Both hands on the firearm to fire all 5.
(2) I tilt the gun slightly to the right. I'm a righty. I position the second and third fingers of the left hand next to the cylinder.
(3) Right thumb engages the latch. Left second and third fingers push open the cylinder and stay inside that area. The gun pivots with extractor up.
(4) Right hand pushes down on the extractor rod to eject shells. Second and third fingers are still in where the cylinder was and help position the revolver (all done with left hand) to accept the speed loader which was in my right pocket. Put rounds in. Twist the loader.
(5) Close the cylinder with my left thumb and I'm ready for the next 5 shots.
A little longer than it would take me to load a mag but not much longer.
There is no switching of hands. Smooth and slow.
This is how I do it because that's how I was taught. I am not trying to convert anyone to a revolver. It's a personal choice that I made years ago.
Shoot what you want.
Yiogo
Loading a semi is a little easier but the revolver is not as complicated to load as some think.
I've trained with my J this way.
(1) Both hands on the firearm to fire all 5.
(2) I tilt the gun slightly to the right. I'm a righty. I position the second and third fingers of the left hand next to the cylinder.
(3) Right thumb engages the latch. Left second and third fingers push open the cylinder and stay inside that area. The gun pivots with extractor up.
(4) Right hand pushes down on the extractor rod to eject shells. Second and third fingers are still in where the cylinder was and help position the revolver (all done with left hand) to accept the speed loader which was in my right pocket. Put rounds in. Twist the loader.
(5) Close the cylinder with my left thumb and I'm ready for the next 5 shots.
A little longer than it would take me to load a mag but not much longer.
There is no switching of hands. Smooth and slow.
This is how I do it because that's how I was taught. I am not trying to convert anyone to a revolver. It's a personal choice that I made years ago.
Shoot what you want.
Yiogo
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shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I'm a percentage player. I have almost no occasion to go anywhere that I might encounter Daesh or other terrorists. But I think even if I were inclined or required to go into more populous areas I'd still just carry my J-frame and maybe a speed strip, and my cell phone.
I encounter a lot of people, especially on Farcebook, who imply that I really should have a panic button installed in my navel. I smile and shake my head, they go away, and others pop up.
Call me an old Pollyanna if you wish, but I respectfully decline to panic.
I'll be observant and alert. I'll be really good at calling 911 if I see something suspicious or menacing. That's what I do anyway. I see no reason to change it.
I encounter a lot of people, especially on Farcebook, who imply that I really should have a panic button installed in my navel. I smile and shake my head, they go away, and others pop up.
Call me an old Pollyanna if you wish, but I respectfully decline to panic.
I'll be observant and alert. I'll be really good at calling 911 if I see something suspicious or menacing. That's what I do anyway. I see no reason to change it.
TexasArmed
Member
I agree one hundred percent. I am still clinging to a pocket S&W 642-1 but I upgraded to a Glock 30 45 caliber and plan
to carry some extra magazines with it. It don't matter to
me what the nay sayers say. It is exactly that to me, letting
all the criminals out of prison, importing a trojan horse, infiltrated with ISIS, the US & Europe under threat, some countries under martial law.
I don't care whether i have a chance or not if that rare unlikely
possibility happens, but i don't intend on being someone that has to wait my turn for a bullet. I do not believe or trust government statistics, especially when changes are made to laws, such as reclassifying terrorism as some other more acceptable crime like workplace violence or depression, or
a drive by shooting. I don't like it when someone decides for example that police won't respond to shoplifting for less than a $50 amount. Such changes cause me to mistrust the
government's statistics, and motives. It seems like I will always need one more handgun. Now that I own a Glock, a 12 gage Shotgun and some Revolvers maybe i will eventually get me an AR 15 too.
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So, when you reach for and insert the speedloader with your right hand, which hand is holding the revolver? And then which hand holds the revolver to fire it?
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So you do switch hands . . . Apology accepted.
Read this slowly, and watch the video . . .
Right hand on grip, left hand supporting, time to reload
Active cylinder release, move gun to left hand to eject cartridges.
Let go with right hand, hold with left hand only and eject cartridges.
Use right hand to load speedloader. (holding gun with left hand only)
Drop speedloader, grab grip with right hand.
As you move your left hand to re-establish a two handed grip, you are at some point holding the gun only with your right hand.
Right hand, left hand, right hand. There are multiple times during this evolution that you are holding the gun with only one hand, and it changes back and forth . . .
Apology accepted (all I'm trying to do is help as well . . . )
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A very rational perspective from Grant Cunningham...
No, things really haven't changed: self defense in a post-Paris world. – www.GrantCunningham.com
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No, things really haven't changed: self defense in a post-Paris world. – www.GrantCunningham.com
...
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