CMP 1911 pricing is announced

[yeti]

Been waiting to get more details, as I am sure many of you guys have. $1k is a little more than I thought they would start at, but I bet they will have no trouble selling them all.
I doubt I will participate, but it is nice to have the option.

 

[Watchdog]

I'm looking into my crystal ball and can't seem to see these mix and match everyone else does. Help a poor boy out here, post some pics.

I call them hybrids, rather than mix and match pistols. They're all over the Internet. Colts with Remington Rand and Ithaca slides. Remington Rands with Colt barrels (I have one, a '43 RIA rework). A lot of them are genuine arsenal reworks with the proper stampings to prove it. You'll see Ithacas with Colt frames and vice versa. And it's well documented that early Remington Rands used Colt safeties and slide stops left over from WWI. I think Colt furnished about 200,000 of them to RR.

The thing is, a lot of people don't seem to understand John Browning's basic concept for the 1911. Without going into a whole lot of detail, the pistol was designed and manufactured with the concept of parts interchangeability being a major factor in determining its suitability as a military pistol.

You might find a Remington Rand with a Flannery barrel. Flannery barrels, usually associated with WWII Ithacas, were a staple for field replacement in all brands of 1911A1s.

Some G.I. around Bastogne finds a 1911 in the snow. He decides to replace the High Standard barrel in his Remington Rand pistol with the High Standard barrel from the found pistol. Since HS barrels were standard in the Remington Rands, who will ever know the replacement barrel isn't original to the pistol? Answer: No one. These parts were not numbered to the gun, period. The pistol could turn up in 2016 advertised as "original". Is it? No. But who cares?

I'd be surprised if I ever find a WWII .45 that doesn't rattle a bit. It's just totally irrelevant. These aren't target pistols.

Without serious documentation, the question of "originality" will always exist with a lot of these old pistols. It's a moot point far as I'm concerned. A random arsenal rework is no less historically significant than any random 1911A1 that appears to be original.

 

[LVSteve]

Without serious documentation, the question of "originality" will always exist with a lot of these old pistols. It's a moot point far as I'm concerned. A random arsenal rework is no less historically significant than any random 1911A1 that appears to be original.

Good luck convincing the "all matching" Garand mafia that this is true.

 

[66snub]

Considering what the government paid for these when new, I can't help but get that special "just got ripped off at the gun show" feeling about buying one of these...

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Thanks for the update.

Lots of "sticker shock" expressed here, and lots of indignation about perceived price gouging by a quasi-governmental organization.

What I took out of the article is:

1. The Secretary of the Army is authorized to release up to 100,000 pistols to CMP.

2. There is currently no Secretary of the Army, so until a new appointment is made this program is rather moot.

3. There is no statutory requirement for release of the pistols, only an authorization to do so. The next appointee may act or not, as he/she may see fit.

4. No one at CMP has seen any of these pistols, or knows with any certainty whether or not they will ever see these pistols, or has any concrete information about condition, etc. A CMP officer has offered an opinion, based upon long experience with surplus US military arms, that certain percentages will be within certain established grades. That may or may not be proven out by experience.

Personally, I will withhold judgment until more is known and an actual sales program comes into existence. If that should happen I would be surprised if the military actually delivers as many as 10,000 per year, and even more surprised if CMP is able to process and sell half that number per year, at least until all the kinks are worked out of the program.

Currently on the collector market an original M1911A-1 with all correct parts and in very good to excellent condition will bring between $1600 and $40,000, depending on maker and rarity. A beater, mix-master, re-arsenaled piece with who knows what combination will bring $700-plus. In short, I don't think that a benchmark of $1000 for a "service grade" original pistol is all that unreasonable. These are more than serviceable firearms, they are historical artifacts.

Maybe, just maybe, there will be a few pristine examples. Perhaps a handful of fully correct US&S pistols will turn up. There may even be a Singer or two lying in government stores. Of course, all of those will be auction pieces and we would have to compete with every deep pockets collector in the country for any chance at all!

 

[paul s]

Once the CMP gets them guns they won't dilly dally around selling them. They can move the merchandise! I can't understand how anybody can say anything negative about this?

 

[moosedog]

I'm glad I live in the next state. I'm going to drive down and pick up a few so I don't get any surprises.
I'm rather excited.

 

[kbm6893]

Who cares where the gun "was"? If it spent it's time in some storage locker in Virginia or on the island of Saipan, I want one.

Where was this $730 Garand "with almost new barrel"? Maybe Gomer Pyle carried it at the Artic Circle.

My HRA Garand that I got 18 months ago for $675 from the CMP has an 8/55 barrel with a throat reading of 0+, and a muzzle reading of 1+. Basically brand new. Looks like it was never even issued. It did come with new wood but it hasn't been reparkerized and all but one part is HRA, as well.

I believe a grand for a GI 1911 in better than average shape is a good deal. I don't care what some private seller can get for his. I doubt he got it for free. But for the CMP to charge that much for a gun they paid nothing for is out of line. And to justify it for "the education of future shooters" is ****. How many shooters in this country get to shoot at a CMP match?

 

[Watchdog]

I can't understand how anybody can say anything negative about this?

Some folks aren't happy unless they're unhappy about something.

 

[Collo Rosso]

The thing is, a lot of people don't seem to understand John Browning's basic concept for the 1911. Without going into a whole lot of detail, the pistol was designed and manufactured with the concept of parts interchangeability being a major factor in determining its suitability as a military pistol.

Browning was a brilliant man but parts inter changeability among same machines was achieved before he was born and the idea older than this country.

 

[kbm6893]

Some folks aren't happy unless they're unhappy about something.

I'm very happy that these guns are going to be offered to US citiziens. I think it's a rip-off to charge a starting price of $1000 (who knows what the tops ends will go for?) when they got the guns for nothing. The CMP is a BUSINESS. The line about promoting marksmanship went away a LONG time ago as they raise their prices for EVERYTHING every year. I was happy to pay $675 for my first Garand. $730 for my second. Reasonable price. $1200 or more for a service grade 1911? Out of line.

And please don't tell me ALL of the money from sales goes back into the shooting sports to encourage marksmanship. It's a human run company. Somebody in upper management is doing QUITE well.

 

[eapking]

At $1000, I'll pass - and I imagine most everyone else will also, unless they are Singers or unfired NIBs.

The Singers will be gone in 2 seconds.

 

[usm1rifle]

I will make nothing but positive comments about the CMP.

To those who do, would you rather have these iconic arms destroyed or made available to qualified citizens?

This program has been many years in the making. Since the CMP can sell only 10,000 per year, they will sell and most of them will appreciate.

 

[ladder13]

Heaven forbid the CMP pay their employees a wage

Anyone here working for free?

 

[kbm6893]

Heaven forbid the CMP pay their employees a wage

Anyone here working for free?

Course not. How does charging over a grand for a GI 1911 make the employee's wallet get fatter? Are they all going to get a raise thanks to the 1911's?

 

[kbm6893]

I will make nothing but positive comments about the CMP.

To those who do, would you rather have these iconic arms destroyed or made available to qualified citizens?

This program has been many years in the making. Since the CMP can sell only 10,000 per year, they will sell and most of them will appreciate.

Every item they sell goes up every year. Like clockwork. I'm glad they are there to furnish me with a rifle, but they don't have to gouge the customers (and I don't believe they do, YET, with the Garands).

But at last check, the CMP is saying there are about 18 months left until the Garand supply dries up, unless they get more that they are not counting on right now. So just what is the reason for increasing the price of those rifles, when they sure aren't giving their employees a comparable raise?

oh, that's right. They're "promoting marksmanship".

 

[ladder13]

Course not. How does charging over a grand for a GI 1911 make the employee's wallet get fatter? Are they all going to get a raise thanks to the 1911's?

It's none of my business what the CMP charges for any of their items, I either fork over the money, or not, but I don't bellyache about the prices. Buy, or don't buy, as noted by numerous posters, pretty darn simple isn't it?
I have no access to any of the CMP financials including their payroll records, do you?
Did you ever run a business, other than working for the gov't?

 

[kbm6893]

It's none of my business what the CMP charges for any of their items, I either fork over the money, or not, but I don't bellyache about the prices. Buy, or don't buy, as noted by numerous posters, pretty darn simple isn't it?
I have no access to any of the CMP financials including their payroll records, do you?
Did you ever run a business other than working for the gov't?

No. Have you? is working for the FDNY a business now?

 

[ladder13]

No. Have you? is working for the FDNY a business now?

I didn't think you did.

 

[ladder13]

Every item they sell goes up every year. Like clockwork.

And of course labor, shipping, electricity, supplies, etc and other items never go up.