college & concealed carry question

[7shooter]

This probably doesn't count as carry on campus but a few years ago there was an apartment invasion by a thug in a students apartment at our local university. The student in question was a young married man who had recently returned from service in Iraq as an MP. He used his 12 gauge shotgun to hold the intruder at gun point while his wife called the police. When they arrived he sent the home invader out the door with his hands up while he stowed his shotgun.
With all the returning vets and other adult students in our colleges it is silly and dangerous not to allow trained and licensed folks the same right to carry on campus that they do elsewhere. It is a highly efficient and cost effective strategy for improving public safety.

 

[ASA335]

Not an answer to the original question (Are there any colleges that allow concealed carry?) - Just my input as to whether or not lawful concealed carry should be permitted at public colleges.

Crime does occur on or near college campuses, sometimes very serious crime.

Licensed Concealed Carry should be permitted. The individual with this license still has to meet the same legal requirements the rest of us do to obtain our concealed carry permit/license, and in most states that is: Be a t least 21 years of age, meet the training requirements, and pass a background check. As long as the firearm is lawfully concealed and handled properly on campus I don't see an issue. If the valid CHL holder lives in an on-campus dormitory, and as long as the firearm is safely stored and handled properly in the dormitory, I still don't have a problem. I don't have a problem with the rest of us carrying under these conditions in our day-to-day activities (our home, place of business, the store, the park, etc…), so why should I with someone whose day-to-day activities happen to include going to college?

Not all college students are under 21; many are older, and a fair number much older than that; some have honorable military or law enforcement experience; and some may have more shooting experience and/or training than some in the military or law enforcement do.

Open carry, on the other hand (even though I believe open carry should be lawful and generally accepted) is another problem. There are just too many folks that are too upset when they see a gun. This creates a disruption to the academic environment that makes it difficult for too many staff, faculty, students and visitors to feel comfortable about being on campus where guns are displayed. My wish may be that this "upset" was not so, but the reality is - it is so. Lawfully concealed is the way to go – out of sight, out of mind.

And this above opinion is from a Sergeant for a College Department of Public Safety. This college's district covers 1500 square miles and there are approximately 100,000 currently registered students (making it the largest college in this state and, last I heard, the 14th largest in the nation). There are already valid CHL holders attending this college (whether we know of them or not), and there have been zero issues so far from these CHL holders, but there have been issues with those unlawfully carrying who couldn't qualify for a CHL even if they tried.

This college does not specifically permit/allow carry on campus. The rule is that weapons are prohibited on college property, except as provided by law or for sanctioned college activities/use. If someone is carrying on campus concealed, and does not do something to draw our attention, how would we know it anyway?

It's not the ones with a CHL that concern me, it's the others. The CHL holders have already demonstrated reasonable responsibility by going through the licensing process; the others show their lack of reasonable responsibility by failing to do so or in spite of the law/rule.

Peace,

 

[7shooter]

ASA335 ... Right on target. Excellent post.

 

[jlanecole]

Concealed carry by college students, on campus, is a reallllllly dumb idea!!!

Heck, it's a dumb idea off campus.

Be safe.

I guess your implication is that college students are all of one type or of one age. I can assure you neither is true. I am a college student , and almost 40 years old. I've had my Texas CHL for about five years. I don't see why stepping onto a college campus immediately makes me more reckless or more prone to rash decisions. Right now, in my state, you can carry all you want outside (except at a school sponsored event), but when you go through the doors, the rules change. Forcing me to disarm there, when I can carry almost anywhere else, seems silly to me. There appears to be a good chance that our legislature will correct this oversight this upcoming session.

I think the current restriction in my state against carrying inside college buildings is not based in any fact, just emotion and opinion.

In any case, Texas law allows anyone to carry with a CHL on any school premises (defined as the buildings), with the permission of the school. I don't know of any colleges in Texas that allow it, but there is one public school district (Harrold ISD, I think) that gave permission to it's faculty/staff with CHL's a year or so ago. No incidents have been reported.

 

[sipowicz]

I am a college student , and almost 40 years old. I've had my Texas CHL for about five years. I don't see why stepping onto a college campus immediately makes me more reckless or more prone to rash decisions.

I'm pretty sure Big D was referring to the wet behind the ears, 18-21 crowd, who for the most part, are pretty reckless...especially where alcohol is concerned. Of course I guess it depends on the college....I would be fine with Harvard students packing but not so comfortable with AZ state.

 

[jlanecole]

I'm pretty sure he was, too, but that's the danger of painting with such a broad brush.

In Texas at least, you have to be 21 to even get a CHL, so the percentage of college students that would even be eligible is fairly small, and of those, an even smaller percentage would still live in the dorm.

 

[7shooter]

I'm pretty sure Big D was referring to the wet behind the ears, 18-21 crowd, who for the most part, are pretty reckless...especially where alcohol is concerned. Of course I guess it depends on the college....I would be fine with Harvard students packing but not so comfortable with AZ state.

Didn't the Kennedys go to Harvard ? And thats where Timothy Leary was a Psychology professor.

 

[sipowicz]

Didn't the Kennedys go to Harvard ? And thats where Timothy Leary was a Psychology professor.

Yes, but none of these would want to carry so it's a non-issue....

 

[7shooter]

Yes, but none of these would want to carry so it's a non-issue....

Probably right. BTW, I heard Leary speak at Princeton University a few days after he was released from prison . He was a whack job strange even for the era. The most interesting part of his speech was his discussion of his encounters with Charlie Manson while in prison.

 

[justsumstuff]

If there are, indeed, "times (you) need to carry" may I suggest you find something else to do during those times.

Be safe.

One morning, at 10AM, two drinking people were on my property. I turned the corner & we were all surprised. I asked them to leave & one in particular became very belligerent. I am female, over 40, a student, & at the time I had a neck brace on. The men did not back down or attempt to leave while I was calling the police on my cell phone. They only backed down when they realized that I had my S&W. You weren't there to protect me,the drunks didn't care about the cops, they only cared that S&W was with me.
The college campus is not far away. Glad I wasn't on campus.

 

[roundgunner]

When will the US Government and liberals in general learn what Isreal learned long ago?

I sure hope my daughter who is in school in Montana has her gun with her if needed.

Shooting a IDPA match with her 3" M64

Shooting a stage with daddys .45 M&P

 

[dmar]

^^^^ That second picture is very cool. I hope she's packing, as well, there's a lot of bad stuff that happens on college campuses, and a lot of it never gets reported...

 

[OLDFED]

More Political Correctness.

I refuse to even try to understand the logic of banning guns from churches, schools, military bases, etc. by lawfully permitted personnel. Public knowledge of such bans only emboldens the people who plan evil, knowing they are safe from encountering armed victims. Having our military disarm when entering base is akin to disarming our police when they enter the police station. I recently attended my granddaughter's Christmas play at a venue that turned out to be a daytime school but the auditorium is available for non-school functions, which this was. As I entered, I noted a small sign that said the school was smoke free, drug free and gun free..."to protect our children." I saw that as a statement from the Left-wing Dream World administration who wanted to establish a touchy-feely atmosphere, as if such a sign would prevent any of those issues from occurring. I quickly deduced that the building that evening was not a "school" (no teaching was done) but rather an entertainment center which charged admission. As I looked at the crowd entering, I determined that for the most part, the assembly was one of "sheep", clearly not up to taking on a gun-using evildoer. After 35 years as an LEO, now retired, I decided to continue to ccw inside, figuring that if TSHTF, my instinct and training just might be the ticket to saving a life...including my family, innocents and of course my own. As it turned out, the evening was fun, entertaining and safe. I never looked for a fight, but never backed down from one either. Retirement has given me a greater perspective: my life is very precious, as is my family's and some politically correct idiot isn't going to cause me to abandon that premise, no matter what sign is on the door.

 

[45doubletap]

I'm a Police Officer at a University in PA and to the best of my knowledge no PA college's allow it (rediculous). However...it's only a policy and not a law. Plus all of my co-workers feel the same regarding concealed carry and we're all for it. I've always said if I gotta use my weapon to defend myself or another innocent and somebody slaps me on the back of the hand for violating their POLICY...so be it! Otherwise nobody will know I have it.

 

[justsumstuff]

I'm a Police Officer at a University in PA and to the best of my knowledge no PA college's allow it (rediculous). However...it's only a policy and not a law. Plus all of my co-workers feel the same regarding concealed carry and we're all for it. I've always said if I gotta use my weapon to defend myself or another innocent and somebody slaps me on the back of the hand for violating their POLICY...so be it! Otherwise nobody will know I have it.

It is the same here in VA. VA state law allows the college/university to make their own policy. While carrying CCW, students & staff can be "disciplined". Students can be terminated, no appeal process, etc. Then attempting to be accepted at another higher education facility . . . Seems to me many educators & govt have a lot in common: They think that know what is best for everyone else, but they are not in the same uneducated group.

 

[45doubletap]

It is the same here in VA. VA state law allows the college/university to make their own policy. While carrying CCW, students & staff can be "disciplined". Students can be terminated, no appeal process, etc. Then attempting to be accepted at another higher education facility . . . Seems to me many educators & govt have a lot in common: They think that know what is best for everyone else, but they are not in the same uneducated group.

Oh I agree...so many faculty members with such little brains. Here I highly doubt that they would get anything more then academic probation. We are RELATIVELY gun friendly and the police dept will store weapons for students who choose to carry off campus or hunt, shoot, etc. Personally I wish every law abiding citizen would carry and I damn sure don't have an issue with a responsible student carrying. I don't believe any of the police officers I work with would turn in a student to admin we all believe our job is to enforce the law. NOT to be administrative puppets. Only problem here I could see would be secure storage in a dorm being that they can only have so much and a safe would prob be over the top.

But anyway my whole point is when you see these "surveys of police" who are opposed to civilian carry on or off campus...I submit to you that they are bullpoop. I have never spoke to any other LEO who felt that way, thankfully.