Combat Masterpiece model 15 vs Model 19

[Doug M.]

Tom Kent explained it, but more nicely. I have dealt with a lot of police administrators (they are not leaders any more than I am a cover model for Esquire). They are, as one friend says about his, Spineless (you-know-what)-ing Cowards who have neither the intellect nor the integrity to stand up for their people against silly outcry. Hence - .38 only because they were afraid that cops would do the logical thing and carry magnums. And of course, they are also cheap, it if was an issued gun and ammo.

 

[ironhead7544]

Note that at one time the +P+ 38 Special ammo was developed. This was a 110 gr JHP at around 1200 fps from a 4 inch barrel. This was a "near Magnum" load that was not recommended for small frames and was for LEO only. I guess at the time Magnum was still a dirty word so loading in a 38 Special casing made it "only a 38". Made no sense but to a jury it might.

I was issued a M66 4 inch and this ammo as a Border Patrol Agent in 1984. Revolvers were still standard as the FBI was using a 3 inch M13 with 38 Special +P 158 gr LHP+P ammo. The FBI agents also carried the 158 gr jacketed Magnum ammo as backup.

There are still a lot of people that consider the 4 inch 38 Special revolver with the 158 gr +P LHP as perfectly good self defense handgun. No real need for a Magnum. Just more noise and recoil.

 

[L Pete]

Note that at one time the +P+ 38 Special ammo was developed. This was a 110 gr JHP at around 1200 fps from a 4 inch barrel. This was a "near Magnum" load that was not recommended for small frames and was for LEO only. I guess at the time Magnum was still a dirty word so loading in a 38 Special casing made it "only a 38". Made no sense but to a jury it might.

I was issued a M66 4 inch and this ammo as a Border Patrol Agent in 1984. Revolvers were still standard as the FBI was using a 3 inch M13 with 38 Special +P 158 gr LHP+P ammo. The FBI agents also carried the 158 gr jacketed Magnum ammo as backup.

There are still a lot of people that consider the 4 inch 38 Special revolver with the 158 gr +P LHP as perfectly good self defense handgun. No real need for a Magnum. Just more noise and recoil.

Back in those days, the +P and most definitely +P+ were just a "twinkle in someone's eye"......The standard load was a LRN for the 38 Special, and the 357 standard load was a GCSWC....hot stuff in those days...

 

[policerevolvercollector]

Tom Kent explained it, but more nicely. I have dealt with a lot of police administrators (they are not leaders any more than I am a cover model for Esquire). They are, as one friend says about his, Spineless (you-know-what)-ing Cowards who have neither the intellect nor the integrity to stand up for their people against silly outcry. Hence - .38 only because they were afraid that cops would do the logical thing and carry magnums. And of course, they are also cheap, it if was an issued gun and ammo.

If you ever wanted to send a police administrator on an express trip to the nervous hospital. just mention "magnum" or "+P" in a sentence about your duty gun.

 

[dscampbell]

If you ever wanted to send a police administrator on an express trip to the nervous hospital. just mention "magnum" or "+P" in a sentence about your duty gun.

Brother does that bring back memories yikes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

 

[Doug M.]

If you ever wanted to send a police administrator on an express trip to the nervous hospital. just mention "magnum" or "+P" in a sentence about your duty gun.

*
I have no doubt that a massive amount of Haldol, Kleenex, Depends, and wet wipes would be needed. Microcephalic Invertebrate Geldings is too generous, but the usual terminology I use to refer to the S. F. C.s that infest upper level LE administration would get me banned so fast everyone else on the forum would feel the breeze.

 

[policerevolvercollector]

*
I have no doubt that a massive amount of Haldol, Kleenex, Depends, and wet wipes would be needed. Microcephalic Invertebrate Geldings is too generous, but the usual terminology I use to refer to the S. F. C.s that infest upper level LE administration would get me banned so fast everyone else on the forum would feel the breeze.

Now.... S.F.C. = Sgt. 1st Class, RIGHT??

 

[Doug M.]

I would not use that reference having never served in the Army or any other branch. Uncle Sam had far more sense than I did in those days.

I suspect that you can find the missing word if I told you that it is a gerund that modifies the type of Spineless Cowards.

 

[policerevolvercollector]

I would not use that reference having never served in the Army or any other branch. Uncle Sam had far more sense than I did in those days.

I suspect that you can find the missing word if I told you that it is a gerund that modifies the type of Spineless Cowards.

I suspect that I have been called various things while on calls etc. during my L.E. career that are variations on the "missing" word. I have heard it hurled in my direction as a gerund and in other closely related forms.... a noun.

 

[AZretired]

Thanks .. now we are getting to the real stuff. From today's standpoint my reasoning makes quite a bit of sense.
But "Back in the day"...fear and...
BTW the snub nose 19s and 15s in 2.5" both have shrouded ejectors which is what I was envisioning..but the others Saxon Pig is correct.

Back in the day....Many agencies that issued .38 Special Ammo did not want you to use .357, so they did not let you carry anything but a .38 so you could not "inadvertently" chamber 357s.

Also the Snub nose M19 & M15 do not both have shrouded 2.5" barrels. The M15 is a 2" and is un-shrouded.

 

[Shooting Padre]

I guess the military was gun shy also. In the AF we carried the model 15 as standard side arm. (1966-70 MP). I now have a non AF 15 in memory of that time. I have heard here that it was possibly the most accurate revolver Smith made. Any thoughts on that idea?

 

[JP@AK]

I have heard here that it was possibly the most accurate revolver Smith made. Any thoughts on that idea?

What I can tell you is that when I went for my USAF qualifying shoot, the Range Master handed me a Model 15-2. I had shot thousands of rounds through Combat Masterpiece and Highway Patrolman revolvers as a civilian kid growing up in a shooting family. After I shot my target, I took it up to the RM for counting. There was absolutely nothing left of the center of the target. It was just gone. The Tech Sergeant who was acting as RM that day looked at it, looked at me, gave me a sort of half grin and handed me my chit to get my Expert Ribbon (seen here on the Forum as my avatar).
So, yes, I'd say the Combat Masterpiece shoots where you point it. I carried one often during my two tours in SE Asia.

 

[JP@AK]

Okay. Since everyone here seems to like to look at pictures, here is a 15-2 (1966) that lives in my safe. It was a gift from my late father, when he was still with us. It is one of my most precious gun possessions. My daughter has said she wants it when I go. I've already granted her request in a codicil to my will.

 

[Doug M.]

I guess the military was gun shy also. ... I have heard here that it was possibly the most accurate revolver Smith made. Any thoughts on that idea?

According to Lt. Col. Bolgiano, in a video to which I posted the link a couple months back, the only entity arguably more afraid of firearms than the US Military is Disney. I have seen nothing to cause me to think he is wrong.

Most accurate: I have heard (seen) the praises of .44 Special N frames many times, from Keith on, as I recall. As far as intrinsic accuracy, I doubt that there is a significant difference among all the K frames in .38/.357. If there is, I am sure that it is so small that very very few of us mere mortals could demonstrate it.

 

[Engine49guy]

Just a bit of clarification the Model 19 and Model 15 while similar in appearance are completely different guns that can both fire .38 special,
Some parts interchange like sites, internals and grips but otherwise the frame barrel and cylinder are not interchangeable.

Model 19 frames are also stamped with a "3" under the grip to distinguish them from non magnum K frames and are slightly longer in the yoke area to mate with the ejector rod shroud.

Some pics L to R Models 15-1, 14-2, 19-3.


This one shows the longer frame under the ejector rod of the Model 19 far right.