OP
Wolf1775
Member
I'll try to take some time to test fire it in the next few days. Since nothing is new on the pistol it's very likely to have the same issue of at least 1 light strike per mag.
Completely disappointed by S&W
- Thread starter Wolf1775
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Whitens Moss
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The OP's experience is symptomatic of declining customer service in America, not just Smith & Wesson but most large-sized corporations that outsource. It starts at the top -- from the White House on down and one word sums up the problem with CS these days: INCOMPETENCE. Horrors stories about bad CS abound, usually due to the automated nature of the response. Even after navigating the typical series of buttons to press, including whether you want Spanish or not (among the most annoying of features), you often wind up talking to someone with a foreign accent who is in India or the Philippines or some other far-off place who is reading off a script and who knows virtually nothing about the product or service.
From my experience the ONLY way to obtain good customer service is to write the CEO or other higher-up in the company and leave a paper trail. Phone calls and emails are virtually useless.
I've had mixed CS success with Smith, as well as Ruger. Sometimes you get lucky and get someone genuinely interested in helping you and possessing a modicum of intelligence. But, more often than not, you have to deal with an uncaring imbecile. This is part and parcel of the never-ending Decline of America.
From my experience the ONLY way to obtain good customer service is to write the CEO or other higher-up in the company and leave a paper trail. Phone calls and emails are virtually useless.
I've had mixed CS success with Smith, as well as Ruger. Sometimes you get lucky and get someone genuinely interested in helping you and possessing a modicum of intelligence. But, more often than not, you have to deal with an uncaring imbecile. This is part and parcel of the never-ending Decline of America.
DO Try to rule out Ammo as a factor (if you haven't already).
Even if you've used the same brand as always, there's always the possibility of a bad 'lot'. Try a different brand from normal. Ya never know.
It IS irritating to read that communication's been so bad lately with Customer Service. But as mentioned, it's NOT just S&W. CS Call Center communication in general seems to be going downhill.
old&slow
Member
Wolf1775,
I understand you being upset. I would be too.
Not very often, but I have sent a one or two back to the factory.
I always had good luck and good service with them.
But, the last couple years I have noticed what appears to be an increase in the # of folks having problems with S&W service & parts.
I have three M&P's. One I had the striker go bad, part easy to get , easy to repalce. One I've never had any problems with.
The last one I purchased was a Pro model, the inside of the barrel looked like they rifled it with a axe.
The crown of the muzzle looked the same. The trigger pull was terrible. They replaced the barrel , no problem. I figured I could smooth up the trigger pull.
But, it was still very disappointing and I still wasn't very happy spending more money for less quality.
I've always liked my S&W ,, I hope they get their act together .
I understand you being upset. I would be too.
Not very often, but I have sent a one or two back to the factory.
I always had good luck and good service with them.
But, the last couple years I have noticed what appears to be an increase in the # of folks having problems with S&W service & parts.
I have three M&P's. One I had the striker go bad, part easy to get , easy to repalce. One I've never had any problems with.
The last one I purchased was a Pro model, the inside of the barrel looked like they rifled it with a axe.
The crown of the muzzle looked the same. The trigger pull was terrible. They replaced the barrel , no problem. I figured I could smooth up the trigger pull.
But, it was still very disappointing and I still wasn't very happy spending more money for less quality.
I've always liked my S&W ,, I hope they get their act together .
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trophyhunter
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Wolf, I have had occasion to return two pistols to the factory last year for warranty issues and frankly my experience with their customer service people and ultimately management absolutely mirrored your dealings with them.
That wasn't the case in years gone by, but their current regime and level of customer service is a horrific experience on it's best day.
I hope the shareholders intervene with their service department and do it quickly, it's pretty hard to continue doing business with a company that leaves you with the reality of knowing the people your dealing with are unwilling to even communicate with a customer on some basic level of competence.
Their blatant disregard for customer service may well stem from being overloaded to the breaking point, but that in itself is a red flag if that's the case.
I really want to buy a new Shield, and just can't bring myself to do it after the way I was treated by them.
That wasn't the case in years gone by, but their current regime and level of customer service is a horrific experience on it's best day.
I hope the shareholders intervene with their service department and do it quickly, it's pretty hard to continue doing business with a company that leaves you with the reality of knowing the people your dealing with are unwilling to even communicate with a customer on some basic level of competence.
Their blatant disregard for customer service may well stem from being overloaded to the breaking point, but that in itself is a red flag if that's the case.
I really want to buy a new Shield, and just can't bring myself to do it after the way I was treated by them.
jeffhughes
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I bet the striker channel is dirty. That is a very common cause of light primer strikes.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I completely agree with this.
Wolf,
You say they didn't do anything. Did you pull the striker out to see if they replaced anything in there?
OP
Wolf1775
Member
The striker tube and firing pin channel (unsure of the technical term for a striker fired gun) were both clean. I made it a point to check during regular cleaning. I used cloth that was rolled until snug to clean out where the striker assembly went, and a needle to make sure the end of the striker wasn't blocked or gummed up. Still gave light strikes.
I used multiple types of ammo, factory and reloads, and had the same issue regardless. I used the same ammo in different guns and had no issue. Even went through an entire USPSA match on a friend's STI with said ammo and ended up doing better since I didn't have to fuss with the light strikes in the middle of a stage.
I thought maybe the striker plunger itself wasn't raising when the trigger travelled to the rear and wasn't allowing the striker to move forward free of friction, but that wasn't the case either (thankfully).
I've replaced springs, and while it alleviated problems it didn't fix them. I still had light strikes every mag. That leads me to guess that the end of the striker is finally just worn out, or the spring cups in the striker are dragging on the striker tube.
This isn't the first pistol I've maintained, and I've looked around to troubleshoot what may be wrong. So far it looks like striker assembly being worn out.
Like I said, rather than chasing my tail part after part I asked S&W for help. I was upfront and honest with what I've used the gun for, estimated round count, what parts I've replaced, and checked if they were still willing to help. I was told yes, they were.
Honestly, I could have dealt with not being under warranty and paid for their services. However, I got forgotten about. Literally. When a rep tells me that they forgot to send me he work order estimate and didn't call me to tell me that they were planning on charging me... that's pretty poor. I waited over a month to call to see what was going on and was basicly told "oops". And so far, the only answer I've gotten to any question is "oops" or "we'll get back to you".
Angry? Yes, I don't see how many people wouldn't be. This isn't the S&W I remember when my dad bought his Model 586. It's a serious disappointment, and it's insulting to be left behind like this too.
I used multiple types of ammo, factory and reloads, and had the same issue regardless. I used the same ammo in different guns and had no issue. Even went through an entire USPSA match on a friend's STI with said ammo and ended up doing better since I didn't have to fuss with the light strikes in the middle of a stage.
I thought maybe the striker plunger itself wasn't raising when the trigger travelled to the rear and wasn't allowing the striker to move forward free of friction, but that wasn't the case either (thankfully).
I've replaced springs, and while it alleviated problems it didn't fix them. I still had light strikes every mag. That leads me to guess that the end of the striker is finally just worn out, or the spring cups in the striker are dragging on the striker tube.
This isn't the first pistol I've maintained, and I've looked around to troubleshoot what may be wrong. So far it looks like striker assembly being worn out.
Like I said, rather than chasing my tail part after part I asked S&W for help. I was upfront and honest with what I've used the gun for, estimated round count, what parts I've replaced, and checked if they were still willing to help. I was told yes, they were.
Honestly, I could have dealt with not being under warranty and paid for their services. However, I got forgotten about. Literally. When a rep tells me that they forgot to send me he work order estimate and didn't call me to tell me that they were planning on charging me... that's pretty poor. I waited over a month to call to see what was going on and was basicly told "oops". And so far, the only answer I've gotten to any question is "oops" or "we'll get back to you".
Angry? Yes, I don't see how many people wouldn't be. This isn't the S&W I remember when my dad bought his Model 586. It's a serious disappointment, and it's insulting to be left behind like this too.
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bulldogman
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I have a call tag sent to me by S&W to return my 9c for a barrel crown problem, honestly at this point I'm not sure I want to send it in.
skip4309
Member
In the 80's i purchased a S&W K22. The cylinder was sticking every so often...I sent it back...they did not fix it to my expectation...I sold it...still I have owned many S&W's with no complaints....
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OP
Wolf1775
Member
Attached is a PDF of the paperwork sent to me. Page 1 is the original work order that they forgot to send to me until I called a month after they received it, Pages 2 and 3 are what was sent back with the pistol.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
I don't see an attachment.
Yes, now I remember talking about the striker channel before. I'm really sorry this is happening. I hope you can get it working again.
Yes, now I remember talking about the striker channel before. I'm really sorry this is happening. I hope you can get it working again.
OP
Wolf1775
Member
Rastoff, just fixed the above post. Had to make the file size smaller.
I sympathize with Wolf1775. (And my guess is that it needs a new striker assembly, which costs around $30, which would solve the issue whether it is a worn striker, a bad striker spring, etc.).
But S&W CS falls short on this one. I've had good experience with them in the past, but I suspect they have not hired enough staff to deal with the increased volume of guns being sold, and thus with the percentage that need servicing.
To Wolf1775 - if you assume that the problem is one person in the system -- someone who misplaced your gun or the paperwork, or put it in the wrong bin -- then maybe you can forgive the larger S&W "enterprise," including the people who do the design, manufacturing, shipping, etc. I know cutting them off at the knees -- getting rid of the gun, and never buying another -- is a valid way to "reward" them for poor performance. But... it would be better to write a letter to the CEO and keep the gun (once it is fixed) because the gun is a pretty good one.
But S&W CS falls short on this one. I've had good experience with them in the past, but I suspect they have not hired enough staff to deal with the increased volume of guns being sold, and thus with the percentage that need servicing.
To Wolf1775 - if you assume that the problem is one person in the system -- someone who misplaced your gun or the paperwork, or put it in the wrong bin -- then maybe you can forgive the larger S&W "enterprise," including the people who do the design, manufacturing, shipping, etc. I know cutting them off at the knees -- getting rid of the gun, and never buying another -- is a valid way to "reward" them for poor performance. But... it would be better to write a letter to the CEO and keep the gun (once it is fixed) because the gun is a pretty good one.
Rastoff
US Veteran
OK, I looked at it. Man, is that ever poor service. Even if you had sent a 1911 in, it doesn't show that they did any work. And, you're still not sure what they did to your gun.
I really hope you get this worked out. S&W customer service was not this bad in the past. They've always been cryptic with what the repair was, but at least they said something. For example, one pistol I sent in came back saying that they did a barrel adjustment. I have no idea what a barrel adjustment is, but at least it showed something. In my case it didn't fix the gun and after two times back to S&W I asked for and received a refund.
OP
Wolf1775
Member
I really wish I had some explanation to all this. I really enjoyed my M&P, but I'm really disenchanted by the company now. While I wish I could say it was just one person causing issues, the entire customer service chain let me down on this one.
I've drafted a letter to the CEO, but all I can find is that it's P. James Debney. Does anyone know what address I should send it to?
I've drafted a letter to the CEO, but all I can find is that it's P. James Debney. Does anyone know what address I should send it to?
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I work in firearms sales at a large retailer. Back in July I attended a training program put on by one of S&W's representatives after which we were given the opportunity to purchase one new M&P handgun at a very reasonable price.
I opted for the M&P40c. We were told to expect about 4 weeks for the order to be processed, and after 4+ months I received the gun from S&W. Given the current state of the gun business, I never once called to complain about the delay, and when the gun did arrive at our store (directly from S&W) I did the background check and took it home. Upon opening the case I found that the takedown lever was broken - the thumb tab portion was snapped off, and the piece was nowhere to be found.
Not wanting to return the gun for this one small part, I called S&W customer service in early December and was told that he would 'get that right out' to me. A week later I called again and was told that things were very busy but it would be coming. After one more call and still no part, I emailed them to renew my request for the takedown lever. S&W's reply stated "I have placed an order for the Assembly Tool. We do apologize..."
I fired back - "I don't need an assembly tool, I need a TAKEDOWN LEVER! PLEASE tell me that you are sending me the takedown lever."
After 5 1/2 weeks I finally did receive an envelope with a takedown lever and an assembly tool, which is the 1/4-turn pin the secures the grip insert.
I opted for the M&P40c. We were told to expect about 4 weeks for the order to be processed, and after 4+ months I received the gun from S&W. Given the current state of the gun business, I never once called to complain about the delay, and when the gun did arrive at our store (directly from S&W) I did the background check and took it home. Upon opening the case I found that the takedown lever was broken - the thumb tab portion was snapped off, and the piece was nowhere to be found.
Not wanting to return the gun for this one small part, I called S&W customer service in early December and was told that he would 'get that right out' to me. A week later I called again and was told that things were very busy but it would be coming. After one more call and still no part, I emailed them to renew my request for the takedown lever. S&W's reply stated "I have placed an order for the Assembly Tool. We do apologize..."
I fired back - "I don't need an assembly tool, I need a TAKEDOWN LEVER! PLEASE tell me that you are sending me the takedown lever."
After 5 1/2 weeks I finally did receive an envelope with a takedown lever and an assembly tool, which is the 1/4-turn pin the secures the grip insert.
BobC357
Member
I can appreciate the frustration the OP is experiencing. NOBODY can return a phone call today. Phones are everywhere and you can't find a place that doesn't have one but, people do not return phone calls. It isn't just one company -- it is all companies. It is just another sad trait of "lacking responsibility" being at epidemic levels today.
kip_j
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I, too, have had a long simmering lack of attention in regards to Smith & Wesson's customer service department, but it's thankfully not in the nightmarish realm of losing possession of my M&P 40C.
My issue is with a simple order of a single magazine. I went to the website back in April of 2012 to order a magazine and received confirmation of the order within minutes. At the time of order confirmation, there was no mention of order backlog, delays, or any other issues. I naively assumed I'd receive my magazine within a week or two.
It's now January 24, 2014 and I have still not received it. I've sent 4 emails to S&W over the past 8 months and have received automated responses saying my inquiry has been directed to a representative and I will be notified when the item is no longer in back order.
This was their initial response, from a rep who signed his name "Miguel".
I've since received similar responses from another rep, "Rob", but no other information other than being told my inquiry was being assigned to "a representative".
Granted, I have not actually called them, and I am very leery of the prospects of what that will entail, from what I've read from other forum users who've been through interminable waiting.
I realize this is a puny order, a single magazine, and I realize I could've gone to dozens of other online sources and probably gotten it filled within a reasonable amount of time, but the lack of response and explanation is what I am frustrated with.
It's especially galling given the fact that I really like my 40C. Thankfully, I've got 4 other magazines in my possession so if this order never materializes, it'll barely be notable, but one thing is for sure; I will surely not purchase any other parts from Smith & Wesson's website again.
My issue is with a simple order of a single magazine. I went to the website back in April of 2012 to order a magazine and received confirmation of the order within minutes. At the time of order confirmation, there was no mention of order backlog, delays, or any other issues. I naively assumed I'd receive my magazine within a week or two.
It's now January 24, 2014 and I have still not received it. I've sent 4 emails to S&W over the past 8 months and have received automated responses saying my inquiry has been directed to a representative and I will be notified when the item is no longer in back order.
This was their initial response, from a rep who signed his name "Miguel".
I've since received similar responses from another rep, "Rob", but no other information other than being told my inquiry was being assigned to "a representative".
Granted, I have not actually called them, and I am very leery of the prospects of what that will entail, from what I've read from other forum users who've been through interminable waiting.
I realize this is a puny order, a single magazine, and I realize I could've gone to dozens of other online sources and probably gotten it filled within a reasonable amount of time, but the lack of response and explanation is what I am frustrated with.
It's especially galling given the fact that I really like my 40C. Thankfully, I've got 4 other magazines in my possession so if this order never materializes, it'll barely be notable, but one thing is for sure; I will surely not purchase any other parts from Smith & Wesson's website again.
Bkreutz
US Veteran
So have you actually shot your pistol since you've gotten it back and verified that the original problem still exists? I know from your posts that you got the wrong work order and it doesn't look like they changed anything but don't see where you've actually shot it since getting it back (of course I could have missed that but I've re-read the thread and can't see where you've done that, just that you planned to go shoot it).
