Deadeye Dick
Member
Wolf1775, Don't blame you for being frustrated with S&W's CS. I would be too. They are starting to sound like Taurus. It's too bad they didn't send you the custom 1911 to go along with the work order they sent to you.
Completely disappointed by S&W
- Thread starter Wolf1775
- Start date
So, they're having problems with the MIM strikers?
Say it ain't so. After all, companies aren't using MIM because it's a cheap and
easy way to increase profits. No. They're using it because it's such a great
way to make the parts.
I'd rather pay more for a lathe turned striker made from rod stock.
Sorry you've had problems.
So far, all my Smiths have been great.
Then again, mine are all 1983 and older.
Say it ain't so. After all, companies aren't using MIM because it's a cheap and
easy way to increase profits. No. They're using it because it's such a great
way to make the parts.
I'd rather pay more for a lathe turned striker made from rod stock.
Sorry you've had problems.
So far, all my Smiths have been great.
Then again, mine are all 1983 and older.
Wolf1775 & all, S&W, like most companies can screw things up and do it
with a certain amount of regularity. The experience you've had with S&W
in this instance is almost unbelievable, but clearly their response to you
is as real as it is pathetic. You have every right to be pissed and anyone
else would feel exactly the same if they were in your shoes. To defend
S&W by saying "their" experience with S&W was great (as it might well
have been) and thus S&W is "always" giving great service, and that you
must have done something to invite this deviation from their "great
service policy" is missing the mark. Face it, either S&W processing
system or some employee, in this case several, screwed the pooch. It
happens. I've had multiple dealing with S&W & other Mfgs. over the
years, dating to the mid 50's as a dealer and overall I can say with all
candor, service was better when people took their job seriously. Too
many now are just watching the clock and putting in their time. S&W
is in fact a good company, but in this case they handled things horribly
and should take responsibility for it. If it was me I would go back to
S&W and climb the ladder until I got somebody higher in the corporate
structure and at the least extract an acknowledgement of the problem
and perhaps short circuit a repeat performance by S&W down the line.
with a certain amount of regularity. The experience you've had with S&W
in this instance is almost unbelievable, but clearly their response to you
is as real as it is pathetic. You have every right to be pissed and anyone
else would feel exactly the same if they were in your shoes. To defend
S&W by saying "their" experience with S&W was great (as it might well
have been) and thus S&W is "always" giving great service, and that you
must have done something to invite this deviation from their "great
service policy" is missing the mark. Face it, either S&W processing
system or some employee, in this case several, screwed the pooch. It
happens. I've had multiple dealing with S&W & other Mfgs. over the
years, dating to the mid 50's as a dealer and overall I can say with all
candor, service was better when people took their job seriously. Too
many now are just watching the clock and putting in their time. S&W
is in fact a good company, but in this case they handled things horribly
and should take responsibility for it. If it was me I would go back to
S&W and climb the ladder until I got somebody higher in the corporate
structure and at the least extract an acknowledgement of the problem
and perhaps short circuit a repeat performance by S&W down the line.
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I'm don't know much about this issue, but are you saying you have customized parts in a S&W gun. The custom parts are not S&W and you sent it to S&W to figure out why it doesn't work correctly? If I understand this correctly, I would think they would not warranty or work on the gun, even if you were the original owner.
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- Dec 17, 2008
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I have had great service from S&W....in your particular case I would like to take the side of S&W...but cannot....take your pistol to a local gunsmith and get it up and running
keep us posted
keep us posted
OP
Wolf1775
Member
There weren't any custom parts installed, unless you mean replacing possible worn parts with factory parts. The only aftermarket parts are the tritium front sight post and the Apex sear. Regardless of which sear I used, there were light strikes.
Unless S&W swapped out my striker assembly with another 1st generation assembly, there's nothing new or changed on mine. It's still the old design striker assembly, and I already put in a new striker spring. It wouldn't make sense to use the 1st generation assembly either, and the 2nd generation assembly has been used in production and repairs for a couple years now.
I'll test fire the pistol when the range isn't closed and the weather isn't single digits or below zero (outdoor range). There really doesn't seem to be much point in it though, since even after stripping it down and seeing that there isn't anything new on it based on the original work order sent to me.
I've drafted a letter to the CEO and will be sending it out on Monday. I'll have a couple friends look over it and make sure the content and tone are polite and respectful. While I'd love to curse someone out, I know it wouldn't be helpful and be counterproductive.
Unless S&W swapped out my striker assembly with another 1st generation assembly, there's nothing new or changed on mine. It's still the old design striker assembly, and I already put in a new striker spring. It wouldn't make sense to use the 1st generation assembly either, and the 2nd generation assembly has been used in production and repairs for a couple years now.
I'll test fire the pistol when the range isn't closed and the weather isn't single digits or below zero (outdoor range). There really doesn't seem to be much point in it though, since even after stripping it down and seeing that there isn't anything new on it based on the original work order sent to me.
I've drafted a letter to the CEO and will be sending it out on Monday. I'll have a couple friends look over it and make sure the content and tone are polite and respectful. While I'd love to curse someone out, I know it wouldn't be helpful and be counterproductive.
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Rastoff
US Veteran
I would wait to send that letter until after you've tested it. The result of the test will affect the content of the letter.
OP
Wolf1775
Member
So, interesting development. I mentioned my situation on S&W's Facebook page, and got an immediate response asking for details by S&W. I responded first by acknowledging that the person replying to me isn't at fault, and apologized in advance if I came off as cross with him. Then I gave a summary of everything that happened and how I felt from it all.
The reply I got was an acknowledgement that things did not go how they should have and an apology. And then he asked how things could be made right.
So the representative from the FB page and I continue to message each other with questions and answers to try to get some recommendations on how things could go better, and to try to figure out what's causing issues with my pistol. He consulted with an employee in the LEO branch to help narrow things down as well, and as far as we can all tell, the striker is just worn out.
So S&W is going to mail me a new striker assembly this week, the head of Customer Service and (I think) Public Relations is going to be told of the entire situation, I got an acknowledgement that things went wrong, and an apology for it all.
He and the LEO branch are interested in seeing how things pan out with a range report, which I plan on sending them once the weather cooperates or I can into an indoor range. If the new striker doesn't fix it, then I'll go to a local armorer and then report back what the issue was.
While I'm still upset that things were handled poorly the first time around, I will give much respect to the rep who helped me out. I'm not a full fan of S&W again just yet since it seems like they have a few internal issues to address, but I am pleased that they're trying to make things right. That's earned back a some respect.
The reply I got was an acknowledgement that things did not go how they should have and an apology. And then he asked how things could be made right.
So the representative from the FB page and I continue to message each other with questions and answers to try to get some recommendations on how things could go better, and to try to figure out what's causing issues with my pistol. He consulted with an employee in the LEO branch to help narrow things down as well, and as far as we can all tell, the striker is just worn out.
So S&W is going to mail me a new striker assembly this week, the head of Customer Service and (I think) Public Relations is going to be told of the entire situation, I got an acknowledgement that things went wrong, and an apology for it all.
He and the LEO branch are interested in seeing how things pan out with a range report, which I plan on sending them once the weather cooperates or I can into an indoor range. If the new striker doesn't fix it, then I'll go to a local armorer and then report back what the issue was.
While I'm still upset that things were handled poorly the first time around, I will give much respect to the rep who helped me out. I'm not a full fan of S&W again just yet since it seems like they have a few internal issues to address, but I am pleased that they're trying to make things right. That's earned back a some respect.
Rastoff
US Veteran
That is good news. Still, you shouldn't have to go to extra lengths to get positive results. I certainly hope they use this to improve their service.
OP
Wolf1775
Member
Oh I agree. It should've been done right the first time, but they picked the ball up again after dropping it. I was told that the Customer Service department is adding more employees to handle more customers, new tracking systems, etc. I think letting the head of the CS and PR departments know that things went badly and creating a plan on how to avoid the same mistakes in the future are a good start though. Like I said, I'm not fully on the bandwagon again, but I'm not going to swear when I think about the company now.
On a positive note, they didn't charge a storage fee for the time they had the gun.
OP
Wolf1775
Member
The one right thing that was done during the first experience with them was that they didn't charge me for the diagnostic on the pistol after shelving it for so long. That would've been insult to injury if they had charged me after forgetting about it. Charging for anything after that debacle would have been a slap in the face.
I got confirmation from the rep on FB that the striker is being mailed out to my house and it should be there by Monday. I've been talking to him about the pistol and we've narrowed it down to the striker. We went over the estimated round count, what the rounds look like when they fire or when they have a light strike, what work has been done to the gun, aftermarket parts, possible maintenance issues, and ammunition used. He pointed out that some things (different strength springs or altered parts) might cause issues, but didn't place blame. We narrowed it down to the striker assembly being worn from use and it should be fixed up.
I'll get a photo of a light strike when I hit the range and a range report for him with the old striker and another when I swap it with the new one. He and the LEO branch rep seem to be looking forward to that.
It's amazing how having someone acknowledge something went wrong, not make excuses for it, apologize for it, and try to make things right helps situations like this. From the sound of the discussion I'm having with him, the point has been made that this situation should not and cannot happen again, and they're working on fixing it.
I got confirmation from the rep on FB that the striker is being mailed out to my house and it should be there by Monday. I've been talking to him about the pistol and we've narrowed it down to the striker. We went over the estimated round count, what the rounds look like when they fire or when they have a light strike, what work has been done to the gun, aftermarket parts, possible maintenance issues, and ammunition used. He pointed out that some things (different strength springs or altered parts) might cause issues, but didn't place blame. We narrowed it down to the striker assembly being worn from use and it should be fixed up.
I'll get a photo of a light strike when I hit the range and a range report for him with the old striker and another when I swap it with the new one. He and the LEO branch rep seem to be looking forward to that.
It's amazing how having someone acknowledge something went wrong, not make excuses for it, apologize for it, and try to make things right helps situations like this. From the sound of the discussion I'm having with him, the point has been made that this situation should not and cannot happen again, and they're working on fixing it.
OP
Wolf1775
Member
Resolution
So I received a nice little package from FedEx on Friday, and was pleasantly surprised to find that the rep from S&W had indeed sent it out and that it arrived earlier than expected. Originally we both thought it would arrive on Monday, but surprise!
So I went to the range today to test out the pistol with the new striker assembly in. Ammunition used was a mix of Winchester White Box and reloads. First the WWB was used. Standing, two handed thumbs forward grip, 25 rounds, 10 slow fire and 15 sustained fire. All rounds fed and fired without issue.
The next 25 rounds were reloads. Mixed brass, Remington small pistol primers, Titegroup powder, 180 grain cast lead bullets from Mastercast. 10 rounds with hammer pairs (double tap), 15 rounds sustained fire. All rounds fed and fired without issue.
The last 25 rounds were the same reloads. 15 rounds fired strong hand only, 10 rounds fired weak hand only. Sustained fire for all 25 rounds. All rounds fed and fired without issue.
Upon collecting the brass, the hits on the primers were definitely deeper. The hits looked much closer to what I saw on the test casing that was provided with the pistol, so it appears that the old striker was worn and causing light strikes. The new striker has, so far, fixed those issues.
The new striker also took some of the mush and creep out of the trigger. While it's not crisp like a 1911, it has improved the feel, though it also feels like it's added a .5-1.0 lbs to the trigger as well. This isn't a huge issue, and it still feels like it's around 5-6 lbs, which suits me fine as my carry gun. The reset is still soft, but it's not non-existent. The XDm still feels like it has a better trigger overall, but I'm not displeased with the way my M&P's trigger feels.
So, overall, it seems the gun is fixed. We'll see how she holds up when my local gun club starts putting on USPSA matches and I'll be able to put her through her paces more. 75 rounds doesn't seem like a lot, but she ran just fine even when I loosened up my grip to see if I could get her to fail. I'll hold onto it unless I get a good offer for it, but it doesn't look like I'll be able to afford something new for a while.
My initial experience with S&W's customer service was still horrible. What's helped is receiving an acknowledgement that they did a poor job, apology, and actual help from one of their employees. I'm still leery of their customer service for now, but it seems as though the right people are being notified and they're going to push for improving how they handle things. I wish that this had been smoother from the start, but they did make things right for me in the end, and I'm sure that the rep I spoke with will appreciate the range report I'm going to send in.
Photos
So I received a nice little package from FedEx on Friday, and was pleasantly surprised to find that the rep from S&W had indeed sent it out and that it arrived earlier than expected. Originally we both thought it would arrive on Monday, but surprise!
So I went to the range today to test out the pistol with the new striker assembly in. Ammunition used was a mix of Winchester White Box and reloads. First the WWB was used. Standing, two handed thumbs forward grip, 25 rounds, 10 slow fire and 15 sustained fire. All rounds fed and fired without issue.
The next 25 rounds were reloads. Mixed brass, Remington small pistol primers, Titegroup powder, 180 grain cast lead bullets from Mastercast. 10 rounds with hammer pairs (double tap), 15 rounds sustained fire. All rounds fed and fired without issue.
The last 25 rounds were the same reloads. 15 rounds fired strong hand only, 10 rounds fired weak hand only. Sustained fire for all 25 rounds. All rounds fed and fired without issue.
Upon collecting the brass, the hits on the primers were definitely deeper. The hits looked much closer to what I saw on the test casing that was provided with the pistol, so it appears that the old striker was worn and causing light strikes. The new striker has, so far, fixed those issues.
The new striker also took some of the mush and creep out of the trigger. While it's not crisp like a 1911, it has improved the feel, though it also feels like it's added a .5-1.0 lbs to the trigger as well. This isn't a huge issue, and it still feels like it's around 5-6 lbs, which suits me fine as my carry gun. The reset is still soft, but it's not non-existent. The XDm still feels like it has a better trigger overall, but I'm not displeased with the way my M&P's trigger feels.
So, overall, it seems the gun is fixed. We'll see how she holds up when my local gun club starts putting on USPSA matches and I'll be able to put her through her paces more. 75 rounds doesn't seem like a lot, but she ran just fine even when I loosened up my grip to see if I could get her to fail. I'll hold onto it unless I get a good offer for it, but it doesn't look like I'll be able to afford something new for a while.
My initial experience with S&W's customer service was still horrible. What's helped is receiving an acknowledgement that they did a poor job, apology, and actual help from one of their employees. I'm still leery of their customer service for now, but it seems as though the right people are being notified and they're going to push for improving how they handle things. I wish that this had been smoother from the start, but they did make things right for me in the end, and I'm sure that the rep I spoke with will appreciate the range report I'm going to send in.
Photos
Rastoff
US Veteran
Excellent!
Do you have a set of dial/digital calipers? If you do, would you please measure the two strikers? Tell us the difference in length.
Do you have a set of dial/digital calipers? If you do, would you please measure the two strikers? Tell us the difference in length.
OP
Wolf1775
Member
I'll post pictures of measurements in another thread since it's taking a different topic. I took a few quick measurements, and there is a difference in the overall length, but it's mainly due to the back end. I'll have to take some time to get a more definitive measurement for how much of the striker actually shows through the striker channel. From what I can tell, there's a negligible difference in the two as far as the length of the striker pin (tip), though the old one does seem to have seen some wear.
Pants
Member
Question about the warranty issue - I always though Smith honored warranties no matter what after 1989? Is this a complete fallacy?
OP
Wolf1775
Member
From what I understand, S&W will only honor the warranty to the original buyer of the gun. If you purchase a S&W firearm through a private sale, then the warranty does not apply to you because you are not the original owner. As a courtesy you may receive a discounted fee for diagnostic testing and repairs, but the warranty likely doesn't apply to you.
The only reason S&W knew I wasn't the original owner of the pistol is because I was honest about that portion. It's unlikely they'd have thought otherwise, but I was always taught that being honest is better than leaving out information. The exception being when dealing with LEOs on an official capacity: just keep your mouth shut.
I'd hope that I wouldn't have to treat S&W or Springfield Armory like that since they both have a good reputation for taking care of anyone who owns one of their firearms though. Then again, they're a business too, and depending on what you need help with it may be too expensive for them to look the other way. With something as simple as testing a new striker assembly though, you'd think it would've just been easier to say 'found it, fixed it, sorry for the wait, enjoy and please come back'.
I'm happy that the rep I spoke with from their FB page saw it that way. If I see that they've brought their customer service back in line with their reputation, then I'd be happy to look at a Shield sometime in the near future for concealed carry. Otherwise, I'm more inclined to look at an XDs.
-----Edit-----
mtnwinds, FB has a lot more exposure and things there can get circulated extremely quickly. I'm also certain that S&W's Public Relations department handles FB rather than Customer Service, and it's PR's job to make sure they have a sterling image. Since I first attempted to contact the CS department and got no response, I think PR was more willing to step in and help out. Being polite, sticking to what happened, being reasonable, and willing to listen to them probably helped out significantly in S&W wanting to help me as well. I was more than happy to talk to an actual person, and things turned out much better once the situation was clearly explained. I'd say doing something like jumping on their FB page would be similar to Requesting Mast since it jumps over the normal channels for fixing things. It's there, but save it as one of your last resorts.
The only reason S&W knew I wasn't the original owner of the pistol is because I was honest about that portion. It's unlikely they'd have thought otherwise, but I was always taught that being honest is better than leaving out information. The exception being when dealing with LEOs on an official capacity: just keep your mouth shut.
I'd hope that I wouldn't have to treat S&W or Springfield Armory like that since they both have a good reputation for taking care of anyone who owns one of their firearms though. Then again, they're a business too, and depending on what you need help with it may be too expensive for them to look the other way. With something as simple as testing a new striker assembly though, you'd think it would've just been easier to say 'found it, fixed it, sorry for the wait, enjoy and please come back'.
I'm happy that the rep I spoke with from their FB page saw it that way. If I see that they've brought their customer service back in line with their reputation, then I'd be happy to look at a Shield sometime in the near future for concealed carry. Otherwise, I'm more inclined to look at an XDs.
-----Edit-----
mtnwinds, FB has a lot more exposure and things there can get circulated extremely quickly. I'm also certain that S&W's Public Relations department handles FB rather than Customer Service, and it's PR's job to make sure they have a sterling image. Since I first attempted to contact the CS department and got no response, I think PR was more willing to step in and help out. Being polite, sticking to what happened, being reasonable, and willing to listen to them probably helped out significantly in S&W wanting to help me as well. I was more than happy to talk to an actual person, and things turned out much better once the situation was clearly explained. I'd say doing something like jumping on their FB page would be similar to Requesting Mast since it jumps over the normal channels for fixing things. It's there, but save it as one of your last resorts.
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PastureOfMuppets
Member
Damn it. I just missed a trick. Would be fun with the neighbors going out in the yard and calling "Smith! Wesson!".
Has anyone seen Smith and Wesson...
My hat is off to you sir.
