Component price gouging!

[Skip Sackett]

OK, I get it. We are all scared because we have an anti-gun administration in the White House, got it.

I went to the Indianapolis 1500 Gun Show this weekend and about 20 minutes inside the building and I was instantly angry.

OK, I even know how the free market works, got it.

Usually, on one side of the building there is an area where our forum friend, NKJ nut has his tables set up. He had some previous commitments and wasn't able to make it this time. But, as a re-loader/hand-loader, I made it my business to go to that part of the building first to see what was available and maybe score some primers.

Here is what I found. Wolf Small Rifle Primers, in plenteous supply for $30/1000. Now here is what made me a little hot under the collar, just a few weeks ago these exact same primers were selling for $17.90/1000!

I asked if there was any price break for quantity buying, just to see. "Nope", was the answer.

I have enough to ride out this nonsense but really folks. The only reason they can sell them for these prices is because we will (well, some will) pay them! That has to stop!

The part that really got me though was the attitude of the vendor. "Get it while you can" was their attitude. I won't buy from a guy that has that kind of "gouging" mentality.

I know if things are in short supply the price goes higher, got it. I want someone to at least tell me that they hate the prices too!

OK, done venting!

(for now!)

 

[Skip Sackett]

OK, I get it. We are all scared because we have an anti-gun administration in the White House, got it.

I went to the Indianapolis 1500 Gun Show this weekend and about 20 minutes inside the building and I was instantly angry.

OK, I even know how the free market works, got it.

Usually, on one side of the building there is an area where our forum friend, NKJ nut has his tables set up. He had some previous commitments and wasn't able to make it this time. But, as a re-loader/hand-loader, I made it my business to go to that part of the building first to see what was available and maybe score some primers.

Here is what I found. Wolf Small Rifle Primers, in plenteous supply for $30/1000. Now here is what made me a little hot under the collar, just a few weeks ago these exact same primers were selling for $17.90/1000!

I asked if there was any price break for quantity buying, just to see. "Nope", was the answer.

I have enough to ride out this nonsense but really folks. The only reason they can sell them for these prices is because we will (well, some will) pay them! That has to stop!

The part that really got me though was the attitude of the vendor. "Get it while you can" was their attitude. I won't buy from a guy that has that kind of "gouging" mentality.

I know if things are in short supply the price goes higher, got it. I want someone to at least tell me that they hate the prices too!

OK, done venting!

(for now!)

 

[Erich]

Free market, baby.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I did mention that I understood that, didn't I?

 

[Guest]

It seem you just don't understand it(the Free Market System) very well. I do understand that CCI is currently laying folks off because they are not able to get the raw materials. You might want to factor that into the Equation!!!

 

[duckloads]

because they are not able to get the raw materials.

What has happened to the wraw materials?

 

[dennis40x]

I recently sold powder 8 lbs of IMR 4895, 4000 small rifle primers, and 600 Sierra 30 caliber 168gr HBT match bullets. The items sold for what I paid for at the time of purchase several yeas ago. This shortage situation won’t last for long. Just remember those vendors that took advantage of the situation and also remember the stupidly of the individuals that bought from those vendors.

 

[DougE]

Originally posted by smith crazy:
I want someone to at least tell me that they hate the prices too!

OK, done venting!

(for now!)

I hate the rising costs of guns, ammo and components. As long as people are willing to pay the inflated prices, they will continue

 

[Skip Sackett]

Originally posted by dennis40x:
Just remember those vendors that took advantage of the situation and also remember the stupidly of the individuals that bought from those vendors.

Dennis,
You are a class individual for selling those components like that. At least in my opinion!

That last part of your post is EXACTLY what I was trying to get folks to get a grip on.

I walked away from that vendor and from now on, I know this doesn't matter to him, I won't buy anything from him.

 

[MrPhil]

How about Winchester primers at $55/1000? Local show this weekend. This guy has alienated a lot of folks. I heard threats against his tires.

I hate this.

 

[Hoptob]

OK, I even know how the free market works, got it.

Skip,

Let me make sure I get it too.

- Folks are low on primers. In the middle of worst economic crisis in 80 yrs, they are auctioning primers for 5-6-7 cents each...
- Dealers' inventories are empty everywhere...
- CCI is laying off workers because they can't get raw materials. What raw materials: brass or detonator? Any explosions in copper mines or chemical plants lately?...

Is that how free market is supposed to work?

C'mon it's not some hi-tech gizmo we're talking about. It's the primers, every country in the world makes them. I don't buy the argument that it's because of panic buying. Whatever we, reloaders, can buy doesn't even scratch the surface of military orders.

Pardon my sarcasm, but whas' up???

Mike

P.S. I'll be putting up on gunbroker couple thousand of once fired primers. No reserve; I'll even pay shippment. Any takers?

 

[Andy Griffith]

Let me tell you how bad it's gotten...

I went into Wal-mart, passed by the sporting goods and went directly to the toy section.

I purchased all the roll caps they had in stock.

I now have the biggest hoard of them that there is!

 

[aphelion]

People are hoarding reloading components in numbers that they'll never use in a 100 years. Same thing happened back in the 90's. One of these days you'll be able to buy them at bargain prices at garage sales.

 

[ehb86]

This whole panic buying of guns and ammo is ridiculous and the people doing the buying are cutting their own throats and temporarily everyone elses.

If you look at commodity prices over the last nine months, copper, lead, etc, they are all in the dumpster. That will eventually make its way back into the ammunition market. People should buy as little as they can get by with over the next few months and wait for prices to reflect the cost of todays materials. The ammo companies are just trying to get rid of all that they manufactured with the commodities that cost them double what they would pay now. Lead one year ago was 1.25 lb. today it is .55. Copper was 4.00 lb., today it is 1.50.

There is no shortage of materials, that is total B.S.

My neighbor said the other day "have you seen Sportsmans Warehouse, they don't have any ammo, its scarce because of Obama" What a load of crap, its scarce because they are practically bankrupt and nobody is putting money into them to keep them supplied.They haven't had any ammo for a year. Buy only what you need to shoot, it will be coming down.

My .02,

 

[geoff40]

The price of raw metals has dropped through the floor. Free markets indeed. Translate it to G R E E D . As long as someone is dumb enough to pay these absurd prices, they won't stop gouging, why would they?
It'll never happen because people are too stupid and impatient, but the best thing right now would be for everyone interested in ammo to stop buying any. Period. Give them a couple of months of that and the price would plummet and it would be everywhere again. Along with components.

 

[ILLWIND]

Yep, I paid 36 bucks for 1000 sm pistol primers. Have you tried to buy an upper for an AR15 lately? Can't be had without paying 20-50% over list.

 

[Revoman]

Originally posted by geoff40:
The price of raw metals has dropped through the floor. Free markets indeed. Translate it to G R E E D . As long as someone is dumb enough to pay these absurd prices, they won't stop gouging, why would they?
It'll never happen because people are too stupid and impatient, but the best thing right now would be for everyone interested in ammo to stop buying any. Period. Give them a couple of months of that and the price would plummet and it would be everywhere again. Along with components.

Goeff40, nicely said the only thing I would change is STUPID and IMPATIENT should be bold and capitilized.

Jay P.

 

[Noah Zark]

Here's the raw material situation:

1 yr lead PRICE:

1 yr lead SUPPLY:

1 yr copper PRICE:

1 yr copper SUPPLY:

1 yr zinc PRICE:

1 yr zinc SUPPLY:

Source: kitcometals.com historical charts at:

http://www.kitcometals.com/cha...zinc_historical.html

I don't really understand the supply issue; raw material stocks are at a one-year high. I don't see the high price of raw materials being an issue either -- prices are at a one-year low. Heck, zinc is at $0.50 a pound and it hasnt been that low in over three years.

IMO, the objective base metals historic price and supply data don't support the high market pricing for ammo. IMO, what is driving ammo prices right now is SOLELY demand.

Geoff40 said it:

Originally posted by geoff40:
. . . As long as someone is dumb enough to pay these absurd prices, they won't stop gouging, why would they? It'll never happen because people are too stupid and impatient, but the best thing right now would be for everyone interested in ammo to stop buying any. Period.

Noah

 

[RidgwayCO]

You may not want to read this, but here goes...

To understand the current component shortage, it helps to look back at the "gas crisis" in the late 1970s. We were told there was a shortage of gasoline, and (in California) went to mandatory gas rationing. The statistics at the end of the "crisis" are illuminating; the exact same amount of gas was sold during the crisis as during a similar time period before the crisis. The only difference was the amount of time it took to sell (a station would sell out of its daily amount of gasoline in four or five hours when it normally took 24 hours to sell). So where was the nation's gasoline supply? Traveling around in people's gas tanks! People who would normally fill up when their fuel level dropped to 1/4 tank or less, were now filling up when their fuel level hit 3/4 of a tank. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or an economist) to see that this individual fear of ever "running out of gas" contributed to the artificial gasoline shortage.

Now let's look at what happens to the market for firearms and accessories (especially reloading supplies) when a Marxist, anti-2nd Amendment politician is elected president, with a Marxist, anti-2nd Amendment House and Senate to rubber stamp his wishes...

And concerning "price gouging", I always use the example of an approaching hurricane when teaching my Econ students. If the price of bottled water and batteries at the supermarket doesn't go up before the hurricane arrives, then there's no reason the earlier consumers won't buy much more than they actually need, leaving less (or none) for those consumers who arrive at the market later. The higher prices enforce "sharing" the temporarily scarce resources. So one person's "price gouging" is another person's "leaving some for the next guy." It all depends on where you're standing.

At least that's the way I see it. But I could be wrong...

PS - Skip, I hate the high prices too...

 

[magnum12pm]

Lots of good analitical thoughts in this thread. It still makes me wonder just how much ammo people who rarely shoot need to stock-pile. I don't think that many regular shooters are doing all this buying. I live in a small town with a walmart store, went by sporting goods yesterday just to check. It looked like the poor farmers pantry, the shelves were bare, not even 22lr. I am going to wait till they have no more room for storage, then buy it from them for half what they payed. Quiet don't tell them it will last forever on the shelf.