Converting J frame to shoot 9mm

[rich5674]

I think the only viable reason for a 9mm conversion is that short, tapered 9mm cases clear a chamber with even short ejector rods, and moon clips are fast to reload.

And if speed of reload after five shots is a significant factor is your choice of carry weapon you ought to be looking for a P365.

I agree. I thought I was the only person thinking this way

 

[JimCunn]

9mm J-frame reload time is about 3 seconds.

 

[Jim Watson]

"Since the Saami specs for land and groove diameter are identical for 9mm, .38Sp, and .357 Mag, it seems to make no difference in blowby. At least it isn't a problem in my three J-frame conversions."

The theoretical difference is not in throat and barrel dimensions, it is the 0.4" jump through the .38 chamber that might let the 9mm bullet wander around. You and other users don't report any failures that might have caused, so it stays theoretical.

I had a couple of 686s cut for .38/.357 clips and did not find them a great advantage. The long skinny .38s flop around a lot more than short stubby 9mm or .45. Maybe I just did not have the right technique. IDPA rule changes obsoleted any clip gun smaller caliber than .45 anyhow.

 

[rich5674]

Reloading with moon clips

9mm J-frame reload time is about 3 seconds.

I am a fan of 9mm, 10mm and 45acp revolvers but the thing is a extra mag is flat and fits in the pocket easy. Moon clips are bulky and delicate in the pocket. I’ve Bent a few.

 

[rich5674]

Trust and familiarity is everything

Carry choice is mostly about trust.
I have 3 Airweight 9mm J-frames.
I trust them.
I have 8 Automatics in various calibers.
I like them, but don't trust them - so J-frames are primary.
I don't perceive relative power as an issue.

I also have both and carry either depending on dress and condition.
3 J frames work 100% since day one
Ruger LC9s same for 100s of rounds
New Colt series 70 so far for couple hundred rnds 100%
Vintage Colt series 70 and new Ruger Lite Rack, disapointingly, NO
Once helped a friend. Had a headache PPK. Changed mag and ammo,
Bingo, 100%

 

[Screwball]

Moon clips are bulky and delicate in the pocket. I’ve Bent a few.

Never have…

Del Fatti Leather

Called the PMC.

There are others putting out similar offerings. Think TK does, but rather the original guy.

 

[ACORN]

I had considered having one of my Mod 60s converted until I happened across a like new Charter Arms 9mm Pitbull dirt cheap.
Cost was way less than the conversion and it added another gun to my accumulation.
I know it's still a Charter but I kind of like the little gun.

 

[JimCunn]

"Moon clips are bulky and delicate in the pocket"

I've never bent one. I protect them in Walmart pill bottles that hold three moonclips (15 rounds). When carrying, leave the lid off.

 

[John Patrick]

I love how when power is brought up, people always reference Buffalo Bore. [emoji1787] Legitimately wonder how many actually carry/train with it… at almost $40 for 20 rounds.

I got that beat… checking MidwayUSA, Hornady XTP 147 grain is $32 for 25 rounds. Prior to COVID, it was $17.50 per box. Cheapest I purchased that same load for was $11.25 per box (2015-2016 time period).

But the best deal… extra Winchester Ranger 147 grain for free (two boxes for 6 months of carry, so end up with about a box each year). In about a year… it will be Speer G2 147 grain.



Not really…

Take a 9mm and .38 Special and stand them up side by side. Notice that the loaded 9mm is about the same length as a .38 Special case. So, tell me how .38 Special in moon clips is the same in regards to extraction as 9mm in moon clips…

A .38 ejector rod is sized to adequately remove .38/.357 cases. Whether it does that, especially in snub revolvers… you could argue back/forth with people all day. But when the OAL of the cartridge is shorter, you will get a more positive ejection than longer cartridges. Even loaded, the 9mm’s bullets clear the chambers easily. Same could be said shooting .45 Colt in a .460 revolver.

So, you’ve never had an empty .38 or .357 case get hung up on the grips? Getting under the extractor isn’t as common, but it does happen (moon clips do prevent the latter, but now you have even more of an awkward mass that you are trying to clear the cylinder/frame/grips). If I’m reloading at the range, both instances suck… but can be cleared with a little patience. If it is a two way range, I prefer it not to come up.



Again, you are incorrect…

An unloaded P365 weights just over what my 642 loaded (17 verses 16.5 ounces). If I remember correctly, I think loaded weight is like 23 ounces.

Glock 43X… unloaded is just under 18 ounces. Loaded… just a little over 23 ounces.

Here is a picture of the three stock guns in an overlay. Screenshot from Visually Compare Pistol And Revolver Dimensions, Weight, Capacity, And More | Handgun Hero

Personally, size is very subjective, as I feel the J-frame is smaller. Notice that while the barrel slightly pops out past the P365’s muzzle… how much slide extends past the rear of the 642.

And that just talks about the guns… not even reloads. Magazines weigh more than moon clips and my Del Fatti carriers.

I’ve stated already that I’ve been carrying that 642 since before either of those guns were released. Think the original Glock 43 was coming out around the time I did that conversion… and to be fair, I wasn’t a huge Glock guy back then. Only reason I shoot them now is because my agency issued me one… but carrying it off duty, it only happens when I fly (required to carry duty gun when flying armed… if I could carry my J-frame instead, I would).

But where it kind of annoys me with your post is the whole “trade it in for X.” How about I do what I want in regards to my firearms purchases? I mean, unless you are paying for the gun and ammo… it really isn’t much of your business. If I’m happy with my J-frame and always carry it… what is that to you? I don’t make my firearm decisions based on what other people feel, because at the end of the day… my money, my time (training), and my life.



You may believe whatever you wish. That is completely your right.

I do agree, most handguns out now are pretty reliable… especially when you look back at history. Even still, I definitely recommend to put it thru it’s paces prior to carrying it… as all companies can have issues.

But that being said, I trust my J-frame to run 100%. It has been doing so since late 2009, and in 9mm since mid-2015. It isn’t anywhere near to being retired… and will continue to be my off duty carry for quite the foreseeable future. If that bothers anyone… sorry, but not sorry.

I will add that I’m not arguing people should carry 9mm revolvers over everything else. I rarely suggest snub revolvers to people because they are training intensive. When I first tested my 642 on a public range, I had a RO tell me he will show me how to shoot it. New target at 15 yards… had him shoot 5 rounds; three hit the target, one miss on paper, last one likely missed paper, looking like the person got hit with a partial pattern of buckshot. I shoot… five rounds in a 2” group. If someone feels a snub is a good gun for them, I’ll ask how much are they planning on shooting it throughout the year. Less than a box… go with something else (I’d say a few boxes spread thru the year… but money/time can be difficult for some). Need to practice, which a big help is dry-fire practice (my LG-405 is on there mainly for that).

All my posts should be taken as why I made the conversion to 9mm and why I still carry it. If someone is interested/has more questions, shoot me a message and I’ll give as much info as requested.

A quick response to be followed by a more thorough response when time permits.

Sorry you’re butt hurt by “you,” it was intended to be generic, as in “one could trade…” or “One ought to” rather than directed at any particular member.

You forgot your 642 reload weight when you compared gun weights. The five round reload is already in the loaded P365 or 43X.

You size comparison overlay doesn’t reveal the significant difference in width between J frames and the P365 or 43X.

Buffalo Bore SWCHP-GC +P is often cited because BB gives performance by barrel length, it out performs any 9mm and is readily available. There are a couple alternatives that don’t quite match BB.

I’ve shot BB’s load in my 638 among other revolvers.

I don’t practice with BB, but then I don’t practice with my +P 9mm HP ammo either, or 357 ammo.

 

[John Patrick]

9mm J-frame reload time is about 3 seconds.

The time to access rounds 6-10 in a P365 or 43X is exactly zero seconds.

That fact and the fact that 38spl ammo which matches or exceeds 9mm performance is the whole point of why I think the money spent on converting a J frame to 9mm is better spent elsewhere.

 

[Screwball]

Sorry you’re butt hurt by “you,” it was intended to be generic, as in “one could trade…” or “One ought to” rather than directed at any particular member.

Butt hurt? Not really… just pointing out your opinion is just that. Are you along the lines of Larry Vickers? Travis Haley? Jerry Miculek? Nope… and neither am I.

Your “view” ain’t worth any more than mine… but at least I don’t tell people what they (generic) should do. People in this thread are big boys/girls, so when it comes down to it, they can look at all the viewpoints and come up with their own decision. That is sort of the point of internet forums… share viewpoints.

You don’t like a 9mm revolver… great. [emoji106] Just because I do, doesn’t make me wrong. I put my life, the lives of my loved ones, and even the lives of people in public on that revolver. Trust me, if I didn’t have the confidence in it… it probably wouldn’t be in my holster.

If that bothers you… really can’t say that it is changing my thought process any. End of the day, I don’t know you. And for the people I know that shoot similar conversions, to include JimCunn… I doubt any of us are really going to “fight” you over it. I’ve seen threads about these conversions going back to 2009 (and I’ve talked to some of the first people to do this conversion on an Airweight before I did it). When it comes up, usually the same people give their experiences on them. I’ve never seen one person (myself, included) argue how .38 is garbage and everyone should convert to a 9mm J-frame. It isn’t beneficial to anyone. Giving info, at least if someone is interested… they have something to look at.

Not trying to paint you in a bad light due to having an opposing viewpoint, as it brings up a good conversation that people might have a new question/perspective that someone might view as valuable. But I see that different than scoffing at someone’s position because you don’t agree (like what I mentioned prior to your butt hurt comment).

For the reload weight… sure… add in 2.9 ounces. My math gives me 19.4 ounces. Even though the 2.9 ounces isn’t on the belt, it’s still lighter.

That being said, weight goes up as you consider the carry loadout. I normally carry two reloads… three if I’m traveling (NJ, for example) and have a moon clip in my center console (truck usually has an AR pistol, Level III vest with ammo, and sometimes a TAC-14). If I carry my P938… guess how many reloads I carry? Two… three, if traveling. If I carried a P365… it’s going to be the same (two… three, if traveling).

Biggest issue with people is that we tend to get lazy with things. Larger gun, more of a chance to say… “yea, I’ll be fine.” Or, “I’m just going to get milk.” Only time I remember going without a gun in the past couple years… going into Canada (tossed in the gun box at work, picked it up when I came back). It would have been easy to say… “it’s 10 minutes to the border, the hell with it.” But being I have a gun box available to me on my way in, and I deal with coworkers on my way back… I can’t even be that lazy. Your mileage may vary, but kind of know what works for me.

For cylinder thickness… and? It’s a J-frame… not an N-frame. But let’s look at it compared to something I have handy… a SIG P938 SAS.

Yea, you know… looking at how huge that cylinder is… I don’t think I can do it anymore. Better order a P365 right now. [emoji1787]

But thinking it over, maybe I’ll hold on hitting BIN on GunBroker. Let’s look at it from another perspective… you do realize that it is just the cylinder that is wider, correct? Notice how the frame and barrel are much thinner. Again, goes back to my original point about size… very subjective.

For the ammo choice, you seem to be turning it into a peeing match instead of actually giving me anything groundbreaking. I carried Hornady CD +P when I carried it in .38… I carry Hornady XTP standard pressure now. Per my own testing, not listening to X, Y, or Z tell me how “this load will blow them out of their shoes,” I got a heavier 9mm standard pressure running the same velocity as a lighter .38 +P. I mean, I have some Federal +P+ I could chronograph… but that isn’t really pertinent to my situation. Alluded to it before, but if I have to seek out an ammo that is known for being loaded hot, am I not cheating the comparison by skewed data?

Whether Buffalo Bore is “readily available,” that is sort of hard to discuss during the tail end of a major ammo shortage… but I don’t see it sitting on the shelves at local gun shops. Hornady, to include the same load I carry… I saw some two or three weeks back at a somewhat local gun shop. It was at $40 a box… so might still be there.

Interested in your more detailed response… but I’ll follow that up with I’m not arguing opinion anymore. If you feel a P365 is so great… cool for you. Glad you feel comfortable with it. But, you’re not going to change my stance on my carry gun. If you want to have a discussion on it, I’m down.

[emoji3577]

 

[John Patrick]

Another quick response while at work:

Yea, you’re butt hurt.

Weigh out the same ammo load out.

P938 is slightly wider than P365. J frame is .25” wider than P365. You point about the “smaller” gun is significant, the P365 carries smaller IWB to me because it’s thinner at the belt.

I really like 9mm revolvers, I don’t think converting a 38spl +P or 357 J frame is the best use of the money it costs.

BB 38spl SWCHP-GC +P has been available every time I’ve looked. And how much do you need to stock, couple hundred at most. It isn’t practice ammo. Ditto for 9mm or 9mm +P HP carry ammo.

 

[JimCunn]

My thinking is a lot like Screwball.
Does stock 9mm have more power than stock .38Ssp?
Sure.
Can you load a .38Sp to greater than 9x23 pressure and with more power than a stock 9mm?
Sure, but I don't want to shoot it.
But why bother? Stock .38Sp power is more than adequate. So is .380.

I've been shooting handguns for over 70 years. In that amount of time I've become quite successful at missing more often than I would wish.
I have six 9mm handguns
Three .38Sp
Three .357Mag
Three .380
Two .22
One .45 ACP
One .36
And one .44

Out of the 20, what do I carry?
A lightened up 9mm J-frame.
Why? Because I like it better than the others.
It's quick, light, small, and accurate.
Those are all the reasons I need

 

[JimCunn]

"I really like 9mm revolvers, I don’t think converting a 38spl +P or 357 J frame is the best use of the money it costs".

Why would anybody care what it costs?

 

[JimCunn]

"The time to access rounds 6-10 in a P365 or 43X is exactly zero seconds"

My Dad has been in several gunfights while carrying a J-frame. Most rounds expended. Two. Reload time - zero.

 

[John Patrick]

My thinking is a lot like Screwball.
Does stock 9mm have more power than stock .38Ssp?
Sure.
Can you load a .38Sp to greater than 9x23 pressure and with more power than a stock 9mm?
Sure, but I don't want to shoot it.
But why bother? Stock .38Sp power is more than adequate. So is .380.

I've been shooting handguns for over 70 years. In that amount of time I've become quite successful at missing more often than I would wish.
I have six 9mm handguns
Three .38Sp
Three .357Mag
Three .380
Two .22
One .45 ACP
One .36
And one .44

Out of the 20, what do I carry?
A lightened up 9mm J-frame.
Why? Because I like it better than the others.
It's quick, light, small, and accurate.
Those are all the reasons I need

BB states it’s +P ammo is within SAAMI specs. SAAMI 38spl + P max pressure is substantially lower than SAAMI 9mm or 9mm +P max service specs.

There are a couple of other ammo manufacturers whose +P loads are right on the heels of BB, also within SAAMI specs.

Maybe the wise and efficient use of money isn’t a consideration for you, but it is for many, probably most, members.

 

[John Patrick]

"The time to access rounds 6-10 in a P365 or 43X is exactly zero seconds"

My Dad has been in several gunfights while carrying a J-frame. Most rounds expended. Two. Reload time - zero.

If speed of access to rounds 6-? is not an issue, then why all of the chest pounding about the speed of clearing 9mm and speed of reloading 9mm with moon clips?

 

[JimCunn]

"BB states it’s +P ammo is within SAAMI specs. SAAMI 38spl + P max pressure is substantially lower than SAAMI 9mm or 9mm +P max service specs".

That's right, and all of them provide adequate power.
Standard pressure subsonic 147gr 9x19 gives me an average of 952 fps and 292 ft-lbs out of a J-frame. That hurts my hand enough in a 12 ounce gun to be plenty of power for my purposes.

The wisest use of our money is anything that pleases us.
I choose to spend some of mine on guns and airplanes. Makes me happy.

 

[Screwball]

Another quick response while at work:

Yea, you’re butt hurt.

Weigh out the same ammo load out.

P938 is slightly wider than P365. J frame is .25” wider than P365. You point about the “smaller” gun is significant, the P365 carries smaller IWB to me because it’s thinner at the belt.

I really like 9mm revolvers, I don’t think converting a 38spl +P or 357 J frame is the best use of the money it costs.

BB 38spl SWCHP-GC +P has been available every time I’ve looked. And how much do you need to stock, couple hundred at most. It isn’t practice ammo. Ditto for 9mm or 9mm +P HP carry ammo.

Quick reply from home…

I’m seeing an ongoing pattern here… like you keep saying something and thinking that means it true. Trust me, you carrying whatever you want is the furthest thing from bothering me. But obviously… the opposite isn’t true for yourself, because you have to “reply quickly [multiple times] from work” regarding 9mm conversions. Trust me, telling me I’m butt hurt because of your opinion isn’t any truer now than it is tonight/tomorrow/six weeks from now. Because when I leave the house, I’ll still have my J-frame on me. Still have zero idea why that really bothers you… but it now makes me smile a little bit more.

I don’t have to weigh out anything, because I don’t care enough to argue it with you. I gave my carry gun’s loaded weight, you called me out because it didn’t have a reload. Gave you what a reload weighs in the carrier… and now you want me to weigh the entire loadout. Maybe I should weigh each individual round while I’m at it…

No, I’m not doing that. Doesn’t prove anything shy of someone acting like a child because someone disagrees with them.

I also really don’t care about IWB being I rarely carry in that manner. OWB (White Hat Holster, if interested) with cover shirt or cargo pocket (JEA Custom) when shorts weather comes up. Either way, you aren’t really arguing anything effectively anyway.

If IWB was a concern, the J-frame isn’t 0.25” bigger than your P365 from end to end. It is that at a single point, and narrows down to a narrower width the rest of the profile. Also has less of a rear hump from the slide, which gets in the way more than the cylinder does. Again, you are arguing something that is purely subjective…

Costs… I don’t understand why you are worrying about money I spent almost 7 years ago. But let me break it down this way… every two weeks, I get a deposit put in my bank account from work. I work for said money… it is mine. If I want to buy a purple Hi-Point and carry that… it’s completely my prerogative. I can tell you one thing… I’m not selling my J-frame at a loss and buying a P365. Sorry… but not sorry.

Likewise, you get paid similarly… however often you get paid (weekly, biweekly, etc). That money is your money, which you can do what you want with it. Guess what… if you don’t want to spend it on a 9mm revolver conversion… YOU DON’T HAVE TO! Nobody is arguing that you must… and that has been made clear multiple times.

That being said, I’m done. Can tell a troll from the quick replies, trying to say they are doing a “service” to the forum when it really is just whining because someone doesn’t agree with them.

I’m actually running out the door to go to dinner… with my J-frame on me. Have a good rest of your shift. [emoji41][emoji106]

 

[JimCunn]

"If speed of access to rounds 6-? is not an issue, then why all of the chest pounding about the speed of clearing 9mm and speed of reloading 9mm with moon clips?"

I dunno, you're the one doing the chest pounding. I just told you how long it takes to reload. About the same as in an Auto, but typically you are unlikely ever need to reload either in a hurry.