Could I get a little help from the brain trust?

CajunBass

CajunBass

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Can someone please tell me just what I've got here? It's listed as a "pre 10" at the shop but I'm pretty sure that's not the whole story. It's a K-frame, 5 screw, 38 Special, six shots, fixed sights, square butt, service stocks, bulb on the ejector rod, no address line on the frame, and address/patent numbers on the right side of the barrel. S/N is 247791, no prefix. There is a star on the butt indicating, I understand some kind of work at the factory, maybe a refinish. Mechanically it's fine. Color case on the hammer and trigger looks good. Roll marks look sharp to me...it's just a lousy picture. There are a few scratches and dings. And my wife likes it.

S_W1.jpg


S_W2.jpg


I'm just kinda curious. I'm not really up on some of these older examples. Any idea on a date? I kinda THINK I know what it is and when, but I thought I'd ask.
 
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Given the serial number and the large monogram on the left side, I'd suggest just before we entered WWI. Maybe circa 1915.

The stocks are period correct and probably original.

And yes, it has been back to the Service Department. If you can check the left side of the grip frame (under the stocks) you will probably find a service date.

The last patent date on the barrel should be Dec. 29, 1914.
 
It is a Model 1905 .38 Hand Ejector 4th change, AKA a Military and Police or M&P. Assuming the stocks are original to the gun they date to the 1910-1920 era. It isn't a pre-anything, just an M&P made before the model had the model number designation added to the model in 1957. The same gun, originally introduced in 1899, is still manufactured by S&W 125 years later, just with several "improvements" in the intervening years.

Since it does not have "Made in USA" marked on the right side of the frame it was made no later than 1922, but not before 1915 when the 4th change was introduced.
 
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It's a .38 M&P Model of 1905 4th Change, probably pretty early into the production period which began in 1915 at around SN 241000, so I suppose it could be pre-WWI. The star does indicate factory rework of some kind, and I'd guess from the look it was probably reblue. I'm sure someone wiser and more knowledgeable will be along promptly with more detail.

Nice buy, BTW. I'd have been hard pressed to find an excuse to pass it up.
 
That's a .38 Military & Police, Model of 1905. It is the predecessor to the Model 10, but we generally only use the term "pre-Model 10" to denote postwar guns that were made before the switch from model names to model numbers.

That serial number would indeed put it in the 1915 to 1916 timeframe. And as you noted, the star indicates a trip back to the factory—probably for a refinishing job.

Nice looking piece!

Mike
 
Thanks JP. That's about what I figured but I don't think I've ever seen a S&W from that time period, so I wasn't sure. SCSW put the S/N about that time, but I wasn't sure I was even in the right section. I haven't pulled the grips, but I'll make a note to do that if I decide to get it. It's on "hold" for now while I try to figure out if I really want it. My wife about ordered me to put it on layaway. "I'm not going to listen to you whine about it, if it get's away from you."
 
ken158 said:
Since your VA DL is laying on the table with the pistol… something is happening.
Click to expand...

Oh, they always get that from me so they can seperate me from all the other "John Smiths" in the computer. Actually she won. I put it on layaway. That way if it WAS something I'd want, I had it locked down. If not, I could just put the money on store credit, and the gun goes back on the shelf.
 
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Pre-WWI era is one of the only times that S&Ws sold mostly in serial number order. Worries were many and gun sales were large. It is almost certain that your revolver shipped sometime during 1916. Even if you did not have the serial number, there are several indicators of age, some of which are noted above to narrow the possibilities. The earliest change made to your revolver is the fact that the ejector rod knob is blued. The ejector rod knob on early M&Ps were given a case hardened finish, screwed into the rod, for blued and nickeled revolvers. With the 38 Model 1905-3rd, the rod and knob became one piece in 1909. After that date, the knobs are blued on blue rods and nickel on nickel rods.

In 1910, the stocks were changed to add a gold medallion. The logo stamping was eliminated in 1917, at the onset of WWI and did not return until around 1919-1920.

I might have missed it, but if not, when you get it, take the stocks off and look for the repair/refinish date on the left side of the frame.
 
"Happy wife, happy life" Never argue with the boss ESPECIALLY when she insists that you buy a S&W. That is one of the biggest no brainers that you will face in your life!!!!!

AH the old "pre" discussion raises it's ugly head. Is a baby a pre senior citizen or does it only apply to middle age adults?????? :D
 
JSR III said:
AH the old "pre" discussion raises it's ugly head. Is a baby a pre senior citizen or does it only apply to middle age adults?????? :D
Click to expand...

You notice I did NOT call it a "Pre Model 10." I said that's what it was marked as at the LGS. The guy behind the counter said he didn't know who made the tag, but it wasn't him. He knew it was a M&P. It's just neither one of us was sure exactly WHICH M&P it was. I told him not to worry about it. If most people saw it tagged as a M&P they'd tell him it was wrong because a M&P is a semi-auto. ;)
 
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