Creased Cases-What am I doing wrong??

[LHS]

Started reloading some .38 Special, using CCI 500 primers, 5.9gr. Power Pistol, and 125 gr. copper flat nose bullets, and mixed headstamp once fired brass (I bought it new and fired it).
Out of 35 rounds, 10 have creases or bulges in the cases (see photo).

I'm perplexed as to what I'm doing wrong. I've loaded about 500 rounds of 9mm & 40 S&W, but nothing like this ever happened.

My only thought is am I expanding the dies too much?

PLEASE HELP!!

 

[LHS]

BTW, I have an RCBS Turret Press.

 

[buck460XVR]

Those look like buckled cases.....are you seating and crimping in one step or two? Sometimes if your seating/crimp die is not adjusted properly the die starts to crimp before the bullet is fully seated. The seating of the bullet after the crimp has been made buckles the case. Another cause may be from not expanding the case mouth enough for the bullet and when trying to seat the bullet, you buckle the case.

 

[LHS]

Seating/crimping in one step. OAL is correct also.

 

[oldracer]

A couple of the old time reloaders in the San Diego area told me that the ones on the left are from too much interference when seating the bullets possibly due to the OD of the bullet just a tad too big. They said it is normal for cast bullets like wadcutters (I load) as they need more interference even with the crimp so they do not jump. The solution they said was to use a separate seater and then a combo crimper/sizer die such as Lee sells. I have that setup now and have not had since switching to the four die setup.

As a side note, I rarely got those with 38 sized cases but nearly all the time from 357 cases but enough so I have my Lee press setup with two separate die holders.

 

[Reddog]

Adjusting your seating die.

Seating/crimping in one step. OAL is correct also.

How did you set up your die? Try this.
Make up a dummy round. Back your seating die off a couple turns. Then run the seating stem down about three turns. Next, seat a bullet in an empty, unprimed case, slowly, checking all the while, down to where the bullet enters the case just to the center of the crimping groove, without crimping. Then, back the seating stem out and crimp the case into the groove like you want it to be on your loaded rounds. You'll need to run the seating die back down to meet the shellholder to do this. After crimping, run the seating stem back down to the top of the crimped bullet and lock the stem in this position. That should have your seating die set up properly for that bullet.
Dick

 

[BruceM]

Try this:

1. back seating die out two full turns.
2. seat bullet so that case mouth is near the top of the bullet's cannelure, not the bottom.
3. forget about the book COAL for now.
4. back bullet seating stem out six turns.
5. start turning seating (crimping die) in 1/4 turn at a time. Inspect cartridge for the amount of crimp applied.

Keep repeating the seating die adjustment above until the correct amount of crimp is applied and be sure that after each adjustment of the seating die, the seating stem does NOT touch the bullet and push it further into the case. After you have the desired amount of crimp, lock the seating die's lock nut. Now run the finished cartridge back up into the seating die completely. With the press ram completely up, adjust the seating stem down until it touches the bullet firmly and lock it in place.

The die should now be adjusted. Test by building another round. You may have to tweak you adjustments slightly, usually the seating depth.

You photo shows buckling which is usually due to over crimping, crimping outside the cannelure or the seating stem pushing the bullet down after a fair amount of crimp has been applied.

A lot of folks are currently getting hung up on COAL dimensions-usually beginning loaders. For revolver rounds, if the bullet is seated so the crimp is located near the top of the cannelure or properly in the crimping groove, the OAL means little as long as the bullet in the finished cartridge does not protrude past the cylinder face-tying up the gun. Because you're developing a load for your gun and not following a "recipe", you should be using a starting charge weight (low). Therefore, minor changes in usable case capacity will not result in a dangerous situation. You will find that the key to accurate ammo in your gun is uniformity as long as the finished product functions correctly and not the dimension in the book. Seat the bullet to a length where the crimp is applied in the correct location and the finished product will function mechanically in your gun, start with a "starting" charge weight and work up.



Bruce

 

[LHS]

Will reset the die in a day or two. Too tired today.
Thanks for all the input and please feel free to offer more if you want!

 

[Rule3]

You did not mention what dies you are using? Are you using RCBS dies?? If so read the special instructions for the 38/357 dies.

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/ReloadingDieInstructions.pdf

I have crushed some brass when switching from 38 to 357 or via versa with Lee dies. So being lazy. I ordered another set of dies so I do not have to change them.. With the Lee dies it was the initial setting of the die that needed to be turned out an extra 1 3/4 turns.

The instruction PDF says something about a spacer ring. I do not have RCBS dies so can not really say.

 

[LHS]

All my reloading eqipment is RCBS, and I have read and re-read the instructions.

I read about using the spacer ring but it is for .357 magnum loads.

 

[pberry]

I am loading 40S&W most of the time. I seat with a 45ACP seating die. Why? because it works and I have one available. I then crimp with my 40S&W die that I don't have to adjust because I use the 45ACP die. When I started reloading in the 1970's I rinkled some cases. I didn't have a forum to post questions to. I had to learn it myself. When you can't afford the brass, you find a way to do it correctly. The good info on this form will save you time and money.
Good luck
Phil

 

[charlies]

Looks like you are crimping too tightly too early...

 

[Alk8944]

Those look like buckled cases.....are you seating and crimping in one step or two? Sometimes if your seating/crimp die is not adjusted properly the die starts to crimp before the bullet is fully seated. The seating of the bullet after the crimp has been made buckles the case. Another cause may be from not expanding the case mouth enough for the bullet and when trying to seat the bullet, you buckle the case.

LHS,

I have "only" been re-loading for 50 years, significantly over a million rounds in approx 100 different calibers FWIW. Those are buckled cases as buck460 says. You are over-crimping a bullet with only a knurled ring, not a true cannellure. Try seating without crimping, then back the seating stem out and re-adjust the die to crimp just until you feel an abrupt increase in Resistance and stop there, that is as tight a crimp you are going to get with that bullet. Another part of your problem is using mixed brass which will vary by a few thousandths. If you set the die to crimp a short case, then longer ones will be over-crimped, and possibly result in buckled cases as you are getting. This is why you are seeing different degrees of buckling.

When re-loading you have to make decisions. Are you loading for speed/volume, or do you want to do it right? If the former, then buy a progressive press and a 4 die set so it seats and crimps in separate operations. If you want to do it right, and for the experience and recreation, then use a single-stage press and take the small amount of extra time to seat and crimp in separate operations.

 

[LHS]

Thanks to all for the advice! I have backed out the die have loaded 19 rounds flawlessly and seeminly perfect. I did mess up one as when I was putting the bullet in the case. I looked away at the phone ringing and did not notice it was not straight before pulling the lever. It gotr about halfway in and I felt pressure so I stopped and backed it out. This is why I normally turn off my cell phone when reloading, but I'm expecting an important call.

Now to the range tomorrow to test the rounds before switching powder to Bullseye.

 

[SMSgt]

Guess you already figured out you've overcrimped. A properly set up seat/crimp die works as well as separate seat and crimp dies.

 

[LHS]

I read and re-read all postings and decided that seemed to be the general consensus, so I tried it!
What a great site and super people on it!

 

[ncbengal]

I use plated bullets for .38 spl and .40 s&w, and use Bruce M's procedure exactly or else the crimp will gouge the plating and screw up chambering with .40 cal. With .38s it makes a nicer looking round to seat and crimp separately. Extra step is worth it.

 

[lougotzzz]

I did the same thing on a 45 acp. I put the projectile in the case mouth crooked and I buckled the case. It happens. Dont over crimp. Always check with your calipers.