Criticize me; Walmart shoplifting confrontation

[Shield 9 WV]

About me: Serious CCW carrier, social worker type, age 62, CCW is Shield 9. I carry most of the time and I've had my CCW two years. I practice 3-4 times a year live fire. My CCW skill level is average, especially on this forum compared to you guys.

I worry about what I call the Walmart scenario probably because I watch too many Youtube active self defense vids.

I worry about a Bad Guy With a Gun at Walmart and I might have to be the Good Guy With a Gun to prevent loss of life to others. We have never had this happen in my town but it is always on my mind because it's never happened until it happens.

Scenario: Went to Walmart carrying OWB at 3:00 position but completely concealed under a zippered hoodie, left unzipped. While shopping in the food aisle I saw a couple of unkempt guys in the store who seemed odd to me. You don't often see two dudes shopping and they seemed to be arguing, kind of barking at each other. I couldn't hear what they said.

I moved on with my shopping but I was aware of their presence and kept an eye on their movements. I got my food and left before they did.

I got back to car and forgot I needed some batteries so I went back in about 3 minutes later.

This is where I want criticism: As I went back into the store one of the guys I saw was being followed out of the door by a male store manager (I presume manager) who was arguing with him.

I slowed down as I went through the front door, nearly stopping as I watched the confrontation happen. I rubber necked in their direction obviously staring, almost coming to a stop instead of walking. I was aware of my surroundings and mentally searched out my Shield 9 but I didn't touch it.

It bothered me that I slowed down and was gawking at the men who were arguing, which was heated and angry, but not really loud. I kept on walking into the store, got my batteries and checked out.

As I was leaving, the manager walked back into the store with several boxes, like a blender sized box. The man he took them from was outside. I looked for him as left but could not find him.

LET ME HAVE IT: I felt like an idiot as I became aware in real time of almost stopping and staring at the confrontation. I was uncomfortable turning my back on them to continue my shopping but that's what I did because I didn't know what else to do.

I appreciate bluntness and honesty from you guys so please let me know what you think. it won't hurt my feelings because I can take constructive criticism. It helps me learn.

I think I could have handled that better. What say you?

-Dave

 

[oneounceload]

Not your concern unless something escalates that leaves you in harm's way.

 

[hoc9sw]

Be very cautious about "defending" anyone other than yourself, family, and close friends (with whom you've had an appropriate discussion). Your permit is to allow self defense.

You might well find that the person you "save" may not agree with how you did it.

 

[kraynky]

Just another day in Wal Mart. Shake your head and put the batteries in your light. You do carry a light in Wally World, right? Power outages in that place are spooky.

 

[Kanewpadle]

If someone desperately needs help, do what you can cautiously. Know what you’re getting into beforehand. Otherwise go about your business.

Shoplifting is not something that you need to be concerned about.

 

[murphydog]

As you describe the situation I can't say you didn't anything wrong. Neither you or the store employee was obviously being threatened.

My only question would be if you think you should have discreetly put a little more distance between the two of them and you, to give yourself a little more "reactionary distance" in case things went bad. This would not have involved running and screaming at the top of your lungs to the doors at the other side of the building.

Be safe out there!

 

[sunnyd]

Walmart has become the scene of a lot of bad incidents nationwide. I prefer safer places to shop nowadays.

 

[RobertJ.]

As you describe the situation I can't say you didn't anything wrong.

What he said.

I don't think I'd have handled it any different.

We just got our first Walmart last June. It still hasn't become the store that I've encountered in more urban areas.

 

[Krogen]

I think you should practice more than "3-4 times a year live fire." You will act as you train should an incident arise and 3-4 times per year is far too infrequent. Focus on saving your own bacon, not intervening in incidents that don't directly involve you.

 

[Shield 9 WV]

Just another day in Wal Mart. Shake your head and put the batteries in your light. You do carry a light in Wally World, right? Power outages in that place are spooky.

No light. I might except lights are an integral part of every smart phone these days.
+++

The biggest thing that concerned me about my behavior was that I slowed down going into Walmart and gawked at the shoplifter and manager.

I didn't mean to do that intentionally, it was just some kind of brain fart reaction that I was not aware of. It just took me off guard and upon further reflection, it bothered me.

I'd like some of the experienced guys to explain why I did that, and what should I have done. I felt like I needed to know what was going on around me, but I was about as subtle as a train wreck.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Did you remember popcorn, and tea bags besides the batteries?

 

[Shield 9 WV]

If someone desperately needs help, do what you can cautiously. Know what you’re getting into beforehand. Otherwise go about your business.

Shoplifting is not something that you need to be concerned about.

I 100% agree! But I only knew about the shoplifting AFTERWARDS.

In the moment I heard arguing and raised voices. I didn't know what to make of it and if things escalated I don't feel like I made a good choice to simply go on about my business, turning my back on the people arguing as they were going out, and I was going into the store.

Remember, there was a second man with the shoplifter. Where was he? What was he doing?

Maybe the next time I'll turn around and walk back out to my car until things settle down. I feel like I really froze, especially mentally in the heat of the moment.

I'm not former LEO nor military. I just don't have these things thought through like a lot of you do.

 

[arjay]

Watched security wrestling with some guy on the ground outside of Walmart.Must have been at least a dozen of us geezers in a circle surrounding em.Weird experience

 

[swsig]

I don't know if there is a Walmart corporate policy on this, but our two local Wally Worlds are very quick to call police on shoplifters. Known shoplifters are banned, and police are called if they set foot inside the store. I'm surprised the manager was able to have a prolonged confrontation with the shoplifter, and retrieve the merchandise before any police showed up. The police should have at least have been in route when you first observed the confrontation. Maybe you couldn't find the unkempt guy when you left because he had been driven off in a squad car. Assuming that's what happened, you were correct to move on, even if you didn't know if shoplifting was involved.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

The biggest thing that concerned me about my behavior was that I slowed down going into Walmart and gawked at the shoplifter and manager.

Which, as you recognize, is a dumb move. If you think there is a serious problem go inside and call 911 or get store security. Gawking is for children.

You described no threat of any real concern, just a verbal confrontation. You would be fixing to hear "WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT ^%%$%^^!!!!"

That's what 911 and store security are for.

 

[Smoke]

No light. I might except lights are an integral part of every smart phone these days.
+++

The biggest thing that concerned me about my behavior was that I slowed down going into Walmart and gawked at the shoplifter and manager.

I didn't mean to do that intentionally, it was just some kind of brain fart reaction that I was not aware of. It just took me off guard and upon further reflection, it bothered me.

I'd like some of the experienced guys to explain why I did that, and what should I have done. I felt like I needed to know what was going on around me, but I was about as subtle as a train wreck.

To say it as simply as I can your brain defaulted to that reaction because it didn't know what else to do.

When something like that happens it's like your brain goes through this little Rolodex of your past experiences looking for something similar and to see what you did then. If there's nothing there it will continue to cycle through the loop.

Part of what you can do every time you go to Walmart ask yourself what am I going to do if this happens again? And train your brain that what you do is keep moving and create distance between yourself and the trouble.

I would strongly suggest that you get some actual training and that you do live fire practice more than 3 or 4 times a year. Not to be a jerk but I think it was some training you will find out that if anything you are at the low end of average.

And carry a real light. Pulling out your cell phone and turning on that little light is too much of a hassle in an emergency.

 

[S-W4EVER]

Things would have to be pretty serious before I got involved (and I’m a retired LEO). While I am commissioned for life (in my state), I’m not carrying a radio or wearing my vest (or carrying the FOP Legal Defense Plan, for that matter) and I doubt most of the responding officers would even recognize me as a retired LEO. Choose your battles. I don’t think you did anything wrong (you probably weren’t the only person watching the altercation) and if anything you’re a good witness. Not your fight though...

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Gawking is natural, and aids your disguise. I wouldn't worry about it. Not gawking is also OK.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I think I could have handled that better. What say you?

-Dave

You're good. You did what probably 20 other people did that you didn't notice. What would you have changed ? ? ?

 

[Muss Muggins]

I think you should practice more than "3-4 times a year live fire." You will act as you train should an incident arise and 3-4 times per year is far too infrequent. Focus on saving your own bacon, not intervening in incidents that don't directly involve you.

Most officers don't train live fire 3-4 times a year, and they regularly intervene in incidents that don't directly involve them. He has situational awareness of his firearm, he's concerned about incidents surrounding him, and he knows how to use his firearm. Nothing he does on the range is going to make him much better at running up on a struggling duo to save one or the other . . .