Curious Mod 10-5

[Art Doc]

"My guess is if you were caught with it there is a good chance of being arrested."

My guess is that you are guessing incorrectly.

No federal prosecutor would waste more than 5 seconds even thinking about charging the owner if all they had was a gun with no serial. Hell, they don't bother charging felons who try to buy guns. No resources to spend on such nickel and dime cases.

 

[The Kid]

When was the last time any of you were "checked" for serial number authenticity of your firearms?

I deal with the BATFE way more than Joe Average and I've never been asked a thing about my personal firearms. In fact, I've never seen them take any interest in a personally owned gun unless the owner was a known prohibited person they were after for other crimes too.

Everyone always talks about "if you get caught with that" like there is a serial number police out on patrol at all the shooting ranges and gravel pits. Realistically the danger of being caught in this type case is so slim as to be nil and if you were for some reason, it isn't likely to be a one way trip to the chair for you.

 

[pigbike]

"My guess is if you were caught with it there is a good chance of being arrested."

My guess is that you are guessing incorrectly.

No federal prosecutor would waste more than 5 seconds even thinking about charging the owner if all they had was a gun with no serial. Hell, they don't bother charging felons who try to buy guns. No resources to spend on such nickel and dime cases.

Don't bet on it. State law covers it also. It might depend on how the state words it in their law.

Here is Florida's version.

790.27 Alteration or removal of firearm serial number or possession, sale, or delivery of firearm with serial number altered or removed prohibited; penalties.—

(1)(a) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly alter or remove the manufacturer's or importer's serial number from a firearm with intent to disguise the true identity thereof.

(b) Any person violating paragraph (a) is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.


(2)(a) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly sell, deliver, or possess any firearm on which the manufacturer's or importer's serial number has been unlawfully altered or removed.

(b) Any person violating paragraph (a) is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(3) This section shall not apply to antique firearms.

History.—s. 2, ch. 79-58; s. 179, ch. 91-224.

 

[Absalom]

What do we really have here?

We have a gun with a serial number which was legally purchased from a properly licensed gun shop which jumped through all the hoops to process the sale and transfer the gun to the current owner.

And we have a bunch of self-appointed internet "experts" (okay, me included), who think they know that that is not the original serial number.

Is there even a theoretical possibility to "get caught" with the gun? No, because there is no evidence that this is an illegal gun, just supposition. All available hard evidence (the dealer's documentation) says it is not. There is not even a shred of actual evidence that would justify a police officer confiscating the gun, let alone charging anyone. Anyone ever heard of probable cause? This gun does not present sufficient probable cause to any police officer by itself. To establish that it had a different serial which was removed, you'd need a crime lab.

Contrary to what some here seem to believe, the owner doesn't have to prove anything. This gun isn't contraband unless someone takes the time to try to prove it is contraband, before it can be confiscated. So forget about the crime lab.

This is not just a case nobody would pursue, this isn't a case. If you want law enforcement to take a serious interest in the serial number, use the gun to murder someone.

 

[Jim Watson]

Like I said, a military gun with a wiped serial usually isn't stolen, it's paranoia over having government property.

No, it is paranoia over having STOLEN government property.
"Grandpa "brought home" his Army Gun. I wonder why it hasn't got any markings."

I doubt anybody ever bought a gun from the DCM and filed the serial number off.

 

[Zipdog]

Amazing how many people don't know right from wrong. It's justified because of bla, bla, bla. Sounds just like the restroom lawyers at work.

 

[pigbike]

First if your in possession of a gun with an altered serial number you are in violation and can or will be charged with that (see (2)(a) above.

Second the gun will be impounded as it has a altered serial number. When they acid test the gun and bring up the original serial number, and it happens to be stolen, now your in possession of stolen property which is another charge.

You can make up all the BS excuses that it's ok but it's not. There are thousands upon thousands of stolen guns out there.

Now I wouldn't say in this case the OP would be charged as he has documents showing he bought the gun from a dealer, and that would probably get him off the hook.

The dealer might get charged with dealing in stolen property if it was a stolen gun, but that remains up in the air depending on what he did.

If I was the OP I would either turn it in, or go back to the dealer and ask for a refund, and let him deal with it. That could also be criminal as you are now dealing in stolen property, if that happened to be the case. Getting caught with an altered gun in not something you want to do.

Those of you who think it's OK because you won't ever get checked probably didn't think this though too well.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

First if your in possession of a gun with an altered serial number you are in violation and can or will be charged with that (see (2)(a) above.

Second the gun will be impounded as it has a altered serial number. When they acid test the gun and bring up the original serial number, and it happens to be stolen, now your in possession of stolen property which is another charge.

You can make up all the BS excuses that it's ok but it's not. There are thousands upon thousands of stolen guns out there.

Now I wouldn't say in this case the OP would be charged as he has documents showing he bought the gun from a dealer, and that would probably get him off the hook.

The dealer might get charged with dealing in stolen property if it was a stolen gun, but that remains up in the air depending on what he did.

If I was the OP I would either turn it in, or go back to the dealer and ask for a refund, and let him deal with it. That could also be criminal as you are now dealing in stolen property, if that happened to be the case. Getting caught with an altered gun in not something you want to do.

Those of you who think it's OK because you won't ever get checked probably didn't think this though too well.

I agree with you, but, I'll bet someone will come along and prove both of us wrong. I'd like to be sitting in the waiting room at BATFE and listen to the conversation between "I swear it's not stolen, my dealer sold it to me with all the proper paperwork" and a knowledgeable agent. Of course possession of a stolen, or altered firearm is no big deal. It happens everyday. What happen when BATFE calls Smith & Wesson with a serial number check and they are told it's not a legitimate serial number? Suddenly, your guilty until you can prove your innocent.

 

[Big Cholla]

I agree that the present 'serial number' is going to be just fine unless someone uses this handgun while committing a felony and then is caught. As a related to being serial numbered (licensed), .......I was a licensed and fully qualified pilot for 35 years. I flew my airplanes in Alaska as well as planes belonging to others. I flew my airplanes in the lower 48 as well as planes belonging to others. I flew other peoples airplanes through Canada on the way between Alaska and the lower 48. I flew my airplanes in Mexico. My point is that in all that time of flying in and out of controlled airports, not once did anyone ever approach me and ask to see my FAA license. IMHO, obeying the strict black and white of the law while virtuous and desirable is highly overrated. ..........

 

[alwslate]

Serial number stamp

By now it should have become very obvious to you that the
only unforgivable crime that you personally have committed
was posting it on here and asking for comments.

 

[Ross3914]

Weren't these the standard issue for female Army MP's for some years? I seem to remember seeing a few at Fort Meade back in the late 70's.

Female MP's and dog handlers, because you needed one hand to control the dog and the revolver was supposedly easier to manipulate with one hand. We had them in Aviation. I saw an MI unit with them. I suppose some other type units had them as well.

By the time the M9 came on line, the Army was running pretty short of M1911's. Something like 1/3rd of the sidearms issued were a revolver of some sort.