Curious: Why not sell to anti-2A states?

hdfinder47

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
491
Reaction score
583
Location
Central Louisiana
I notice that many sellers specifically state that they will not sell to Cali and a few other states that are anti 2A. Is there a danger of the gun getting "lost" in shipment, extra paperwork or another reason? Just curious since there are a lot of avid shooters/collectors in these states and I hate to see them denied access to the hobby.
And why do we often put xxx's for the last digits of our serial numbers when talking firearms online? (I usually do it b/c everybody else seems to, but I don't know why.)
Ed
 
Register to hide this ad
I notice that many sellers specifically state that they will not sell to Cali and a few other states that are anti 2A. Is there a danger of the gun getting "lost" in shipment, extra paperwork or another reason? Just curious since there are a lot of avid shooters/collectors in these states and I hate to see them denied access to the hobby.

And why do we often put xxx's for the last digits of our serial numbers when talking firearms online? (I usually do it b/c everybody else seems to, but I don't know why.)

Ed
Maybe the gun they are selling is not legal in those states.

Sent from my SM-T387V using Tapatalk
 
I notice that many sellers specifically state that they will not sell to Cali and a few other states that are anti 2A. Is there a danger of the gun getting "lost" in shipment, extra paperwork or another reason? Just curious since there are a lot of avid shooters/collectors in these states and I hate to see them denied access to the hobby.
And why do we often put xxx's for the last digits of our serial numbers when talking firearms online? (I usually do it b/c everybody else seems to, but I don't know why.)
Ed

Seems to be no good answer for leaving out part of the serial numbers. This has been asked here before. Always no definitive answers, but much speculation. Probably a lot of paranoia involved in many cases.

Like the people with bail out kits by every door, I was curious where they were going to bail out to. No one really knew.
 
Several states have a real patchwork of laws that makes it difficult to make sure you are in compliance. With Bidens No Tolerance policy, you make any mistake and you will lose your FFL. Thats the good news. May also end up in jail. Basically most hobby dealers don't want to deal with all the hassle.
 
The serial number thing is just Big Brother paranoia. Also some people are afraid someone will use the serial number to file a false police report for some reason, though I have never heard of it actually happening.

As for not shipping to some states, I think it is because most sellers use an FFL to ship, and the FFL may not want to ship to those states. I know the guy I use won't, and I'm in Colorado which is rapidly becoming one of "those" states. Hell, I tried to order a holster from Amazon and they wouldn't ship it here even though holsters aren't illegal anywhere here.
 
The only state I recall seeing where sellers say "no sales to" is California. California has a list of firearms (handguns only?) that they deem acceptable. It evolves over time, I think. Sellers don't won't to go through the hassle of trying to get their gun/money back, or having a CA FFL reject their shipment if their gun is not on the acceptable list.

As for XXX in SNs, some folks worry about Big Brother tracking their personal firearms. Others, like me, don't worry about it and go ahead and publish SNs.

That's my understanding, anyway .
 
As I understand it some states and particularly California have approved lists of firearms. Those have passed the safety tests. But as often as not within the same category of, say revolvers, some have not passed. Dealers don't want the hassle of whether a particular firearm is on the latest list or not. Older and used guns especially might not be on the approved "safety" list.
 
The above mentioned states are run by morons who change/pass anti gun laws almost surreptitiously. I used to live in one of those dumps and I had to call the police dept just to make sure I wasn't breaking any laws on my way to the gun range. Guess what? Not even the police could keep up with the rapidly changing laws.

Gun dealers don't have the time to constantly research all the gun laws on the books for every state in the nation. They simply don't do biz with anti gun states cause it's just not worth the risk.
 
Several states have a real patchwork of laws that makes it difficult to make sure you are in compliance. With Bidens No Tolerance policy, you make any mistake and you will lose your FFL. Thats the good news. May also end up in jail. Basically most hobby dealers don't want to deal with all the hassle.

As an FFL I have questioned this personally. Lots of sellers won't ship to NY. I've seen this on Gunbroker a lot. It's really just dumb. If a seller in Texas sells a gun to a NY resident he ships it to a local FFL. At that point it's the local FFL's responsibility to make sure it's legal. No different than shipping to any other state. I've explained this to sellers on GB and they've agreed to sell it here. I once received a 9mm (Kimber I think) that seller claimed was 10 rd capacity. Well when I received it , it was 12 rd capacity. It was my responsibility to check it and not transfer it to buyer.
 
As an FFL I have questioned this personally. Lots of sellers won't ship to NY. I've seen this on Gunbroker a lot. It's really just dumb. If a seller in Texas sells a gun to a NY resident he ships it to a local FFL. At that point it's the local FFL's responsibility to make sure it's legal. No different than shipping to any other state. I've explained this to sellers on GB and they've agreed to sell it here. I once received a 9mm (Kimber I think) that seller claimed was 10 rd capacity. Well when I received it , it was 12 rd capacity. It was my responsibility to check it and not transfer it to buyer.

Then what happens?
 
A lot of online sites will not ship ammo, powder,primers etc to Massachusetts because of their asinine laws. Some sellers won't ship assisted opening pocket knives to Mass, where freedom has come to die.
 
I've always heard out of state private sellers or FFLs just don't want to risk dealing with the Nanny States who haven't read or understand your American rights.

If I sold gear, guns, ammo, etc., I'd probably be inclined to play it safe as well, and not send it to hostile territory.
 
I don't blame out of state dealers who don't want to ship into California. The following is a link to the California site that shows what guns are legal to sell in California. Just look at the Smith & Wesson list and you'll see that it's all fairly current models and it's not even all of the models, sometimes California will allow a gun to be shipped into the state with a certain finish and not another finish. They do this because the only test the gun with the one finish. You'd be shocked how many current gun models can't be shipped into California. For example, the ONLY model 17 that can be shipped to CA is the 17-9 SKU #150477a.

Handguns Certified for Sale | State of California - Department of Justice - Office of the Attorney General

It does exempt private party transfers, but a case can be made that an FFL shipping into the state is not a private party transfer.

I can see where an FFL wouldn't see it is worth the risk, as much of what is sold on GB can't be sold into CA.

I am not an FFL, and may be off based on all of this, but this is how it appears to a lot of people and causes people to be reluctant to ship there.
 
A lot of online sites will not ship ammo, powder,primers etc to Massachusetts because of their asinine laws. Some sellers won't ship assisted opening pocket knives to Mass, where freedom has come to die.
Certainly understandable, but the fact is that even switchblades are legal to possess in MA. It's just taking them out of the house that isn't. Also shipping interstate, but not everyone sweats that, either.
 
To say that California's gun laws are strange is well known.
For a FFL to ship into California, they have to register with the State, doesn't matter that the FFL already has a Federal License, and then get a Firearms Shipment Approval number from DOJ, for any gun shipped. 3 guns, 3 letters. It is automated and easy but, my view, it is purely there to frustrate the 'import' of guns into the State.
If it is On Roster, is not banned outright, has the wrong dash or feature then all is good; if not, then the fun begins - all between the FFL's.
Yes, it is up to the buyer to make sure of these things but I am sure that a seller, once burned, will just say "no sale to California" to make their life easier.
There is more to this but space is short and time is valuable; just know that life behind the wire is complicated for gun owners.
 
Then what happens?

Two options. Return it to the seller who advertised it as a 10 rd mag or let buyer take possession without the 12 rd mag. As an FFL in NY I can posses guns deemed illegal, because law enforcement can buy them. If a cop tells me he wants a Walther with 16 rd mag, I get it for him. If he wants an evil AR with removable 30 rd mag. I get it for him.
 
To say that California's gun laws are strange is well known.
For a FFL to ship into California, they have to register with the State, doesn't matter that the FFL already has a Federal License, and then get a Firearms Shipment Approval number from DOJ, for any gun shipped. 3 guns, 3 letters. It is automated and easy but, my view, it is purely there to frustrate the 'import' of guns into the State.
If it is On Roster, is not banned outright, has the wrong dash or feature then all is good; if not, then the fun begins - all between the FFL's.
Yes, it is up to the buyer to make sure of these things but I am sure that a seller, once burned, will just say "no sale to California" to make their life easier.
There is more to this but space is short and time is valuable; just know that life behind the wire is complicated for gun owners.

As an FFL, I've jumped through the hoops to ship to CA a couple of times, as stated above, it is PITA. Doubt I'd do it again.
 
In Mass. the then attorney general, threatened out of state sellers and dealers with lawsuits and large fines for selling firearms to Mass. residents. The excuse she used was the persons LTC couldn't be verified.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TST
Seems to be no good answer for leaving out part of the serial numbers. This has been asked here before. Always no definitive answers, but much speculation. Probably a lot of paranoia involved in many cases.

Like the people with bail out kits by every door, I was curious where they were going to bail out to. No one really knew.

Many people do not list full serial number as it is thought it allows a potential thief to get the serial number, report the gun "stolen", wait a few weeks and then turn the police onto the seller as a possible lead.
 
Several states have a real patchwork of laws that makes it difficult to make sure you are in compliance. With Bidens No Tolerance policy, you make any mistake and you will lose your FFL. Thats the good news. May also end up in jail. Basically most hobby dealers don't want to deal with all the hassle.

Taking the time to spend an hour or more researching Lefty state gun laws before shipping is more hassle than it's worth when a sale to a local or gun friendly state customer can be wrapped up in a few minutes.
Those people living in problem states have made their choice on what's important to them.
If they don't like it they should move. Or just suck it up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TST
Hell, I tried to order a holster from Amazon and they wouldn't ship it here even though holsters aren't illegal anywhere here.

That's ridiculous. Before the high capacity mag restriction went into effect I ordered 8-30rd mags from some company and they refused to ship because of my Denver address.

With nothing to lose I reordered and gave a friends address up in Wellington,CO. to ship to. Got the mags in 3 days.

Complete idiots!!!
 
With regards to serial numbers, we make use of them on this site quite obviously, often to try to nail down a particular time of production or perhaps shipment… sometimes for newer examples we can use them to better identify a variation or engineering change. For these goals, placing x's for the last two or three digits does nothing negative to the goal of dating, identifying or classifying, but it surely does rattle the cages of different Fudds and yokels. They quickly trot out gems such as "paranoia" and "big brother."

ATF knocked on my door last night! - The Firing Line Forums

This is a discussion from 2009, and this is when I formed my own opinion of posting serial numbers on an open forum.

Certainly I understand that some long time posters here are actually former Government agents. I would like to think that they held themselves to a standard in their careers and I would hope the same for current Government agents who might be here as well.

From my view, I don't care to have any Government agents visiting my home for any reason. I felt that way back in 2009. I can say that I do not hold a higher opinion of Government agencies today in 2024 than I did 15 years ago, but perhaps some Fudds do. I can respect their position but I have precious little respect when they try to paint some of us as paranoid because it appears they don't respect our position on the same matter.

A regular working class stiff like me will NEVER truly know the inner workings of US Federal "alphabet" agencies but it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to imagine that their power and corruption are greater today than a decade and a half ago, especially when you consider the cabal of puppet masters that drive them from the top.
 
SEVENS, it seems like there's always more to the story. I wonder how ATF came to know about individual in thread sellingGUNS ( plural)? How many can a person sell before needing a license? Lots of questions
 
Fleet farm is currently being sued by the state of Minnesota over firearm sales.....
Why should anyone incur the risk?
 
With regards to serial numbers, we make use of them on this site quite obviously, often to try to nail down a particular time of production or perhaps shipment… sometimes for newer examples we can use them to better identify a variation or engineering change. For these goals, placing x's for the last two or three digits does nothing negative to the goal of dating, identifying or classifying, but it surely does rattle the cages of different Fudds and yokels. They quickly trot out gems such as "paranoia" and "big brother."

ATF knocked on my door last night! - The Firing Line Forums

This is a discussion from 2009, and this is when I formed my own opinion of posting serial numbers on an open forum.

Certainly I understand that some long time posters here are actually former Government agents. I would like to think that they held themselves to a standard in their careers and I would hope the same for current Government agents who might be here as well.

From my view, I don't care to have any Government agents visiting my home for any reason. I felt that way back in 2009. I can say that I do not hold a higher opinion of Government agencies today in 2024 than I did 15 years ago, but perhaps some Fudds do. I can respect their position but I have precious little respect when they try to paint some of us as paranoid because it appears they don't respect our position on the same matter.

A regular working class stiff like me will NEVER truly know the inner workings of US Federal "alphabet" agencies but it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to imagine that their power and corruption are greater today than a decade and a half ago, especially when you consider the cabal of puppet masters that drive them from the top.

I s a "fudd" just a not-so-bright guy like the Elmer Fudd cartoon character? It seems like that would be the true definition unless the recent use of the term was coined by someone who didn't grow up in the Elmer Fudd era and is more YouTube inclined.
 
Back
Top