Derringer recoil

[forrestinmathews]

Sorry for the delay- The Groundhog lied!!! All of them are with in +/- 2" L-R, U-D @ 7 yards on paper plate as long as I do my part. The Buffalo arms 357 has the best trigger of them all and @ 7 yards will shoot "groups", the only bad thing is that the frame will hit my middle finger since recoil seems to come straight back. It is the only "D" that I have shot since Nov 2018. Be Safe,

Now this is something to see. I'm getting high strikes no matter how much I am locking it down. The trigger is very nice and light. 160 is about as light as I can go. I've tried it in gallery loads, .45 Cowboy Special, and full house Colts. The Bond just loves jacketed .451 and groups well by barrel.

 

[6string]

The 410 bore stinks as a defensive choice out of a longarm.
Why do people think it gains some sort of magical power when fired out of a short barrel pistol?

These derringers have so much working against them. The triggers and sights are horrendous. So, decent shot placement is a huge problem, even when used leisurely on a range.
Maybe that's a non-issue if you're being throttled around the neck, or have somebody sticking a knife in you.
But, is a two-shooter with an awkward sequence of follow up shot operation what you really want to be armed with in such a situation?

Jim

 

[forrestinmathews]

The 410 bore stinks as a defensive choice out of a longarm.
Why do people think it gains some sort of magical power when fired out of a short barrel pistol?

These derringers have so much working against them. The triggers and sights are horrendous. So, decent shot placement is a huge problem, even when used leisurely on a range.
Maybe that's a non-issue if you're being throttled around the neck, or have somebody sticking a knife in you.
But, is a two-shooter with an awkward sequence of follow up shot operation what you really want to be armed with in such a situation?

Jim

Well Jim if we're being honest, I just got so bored with the endlessly repeatable accuracy in was getting out of of my double action revolvers. So I went to single action fixed sight revolvers which soon become equally boring. From there I scaled down to the Mini revolvers and pushed them until they keyholed and could group no more. So here I am in derringers with a whole new set of challenges and not a lot of information to go on. It's a new aspect of shooting for me to discover and I'm making progress and enjoying myself.

The second shot isn't difficult at all. I'm starting to get them off fast enough it makes me wonder. I do reload drills for fun initially, but then it started to become workable.

Having two barrels with their own firing pins is also not a bad thing. If something breaks I'll have the other barrel to keep going off. The nose piece on the hammer would have to break to put this design completely out of commission.

I agree with the trigger and sights comment. These are areas not being developed to their full potential. As far asmarksmanship is concerned the guns appear to be repeatable in every case barrel to barrel despite a deflected point of aim point of impact relationship. A shooter with well-developed fundamentals and discipline can achieve personal defense grade marksmanship with these guns. those making excuses about how inaccurate they are and how one can't hit the broadside of a barn with them will likely be discovered to be a shooter of a grade that is incapable of ragged hole groups at 7 to 10 yards with defensive handguns full size or even a Target grade handgun. Furthermore the time spent by a shooter pursuing decent marksmanship with these disadvantageous platforms is going to realize increased marksmanship when they transition back to their larger sized gun.

As far as ammunition goes I think the .410 loads are doing well out of the short barrels. Most of the projectiles are being asked to evolve. I think it's a bit much to call #4 fine shot a defensive load and find there is confusion between fine and buckshot in this #4 discussion. I believe the fine shot is being added to fill patterns and increase the swept area.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Thanks folks. Whether I follow the derringer path, or not, I have learned a tremendous amount about them in this thread.

Again, thanks to all.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Thanks folks. Whether I follow the derringer path, or not, I have learned a tremendous amount about them in this thread.

Again, thanks to all.

You'll have a good time...there are plenty of fun loads...

 

[Execpro]

Vel. out of 3" bbl

Did some research on the web.
- Speer Gold Dot 185gr JHP at 924 Ft/Sec.
- Federal Hi-Shok 185gr JHP at 923 Ft/Sec (Bond Arms Derr).
- Winchester Silvertip 185gr JHP at 860 Ft/Sec.
Just to give you an Idea. There is a lot more on google both for the 45acp and the Colt 45. The Site "Ballistics by the inch"is a good one. All above rounds are 45acp.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

 

[dogngun]

Never had the Bond, but have had 4 or 5 American Derringers...one in .44 and .410...I used .44 Specials in it, and they were still pretty fierce, but the .410 was a *****cat...I used the slug load. Fwiw, the .357 mag version is a real adventure..use .38 Spls only!One more thing about the American Derringer..every one of mine was accurate - shot to the sights..which amazed me. I finally decided I wanted more than 2 shots, and sold the derringers...but they were fun to shoot, .22, .357 and .44...

 

[kaaskop49]

Never had the Bond, but have had 4 or 5 American Derringers...one in .44 and .410...I used .44 Specials in it, and they were still pretty fierce, but the .410 was a *****cat...I used the slug load. Fwiw, the .357 mag version is a real adventure..use .38 Spls only!One more thing about the American Derringer..every one of mine was accurate - shot to the sights..which amazed me. I finally decided I wanted more than 2 shots, and sold the derringers...but they were fun to shoot, .22, .357 and .44...

A meaningful, informative post. Many thanks!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[Loyaljeeper]

I recently offloaded my American Derringer in 45 Winmag. Both barrels shot point of aim. The ADCs are well built pieces of art. I do enjoy a good Bond derringer though; I have two and plan to post one in the classifieds this weeek. My dad has an all aluminum .380 ADC that shoots about six inches higher at 10 yards with the top barrel.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Did some research on the web.
- Speer Gold Dot 185gr JHP at 924 Ft/Sec.
- Federal Hi-Shok 185gr JHP at 923 Ft/Sec (Bond Arms Derr).
- Winchester Silvertip 185gr JHP at 860 Ft/Sec.
Just to give you an Idea. There is a lot more on google both for the 45acp and the Colt 45. The Site "Ballistics by the inch"is a good one.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

Do you have any information on expansion of these loads from a derringer? These all sound like ACP loads. Has anyone found any good information on what velocities are required for expansion?

 

[forrestinmathews]

Well I finally got my bullets in and loaded some up. As I feared, no expansion from the Short Barrel Gold Dots fired into sand. I fired some 215 and 325 grain hard cast with great success and greater recoil. The American Derringer just flat out kicks like a mule with the 325 grain bullets. I have no desire to attempt that again. The Bond was tolerable with the heavy loading. Both guns are very tolerable with 215 grain loadings. So at this point I'm looking at the 215 loading for the American and flirting with the 325's in the Bond as there is some to control to be gained there.

I guess the last possible option for hollow points is to push the Gold Dot Short Barrel to full Ruger loads and see if it's still something I can handle.

 

[dogngun]

I would not expect expansion from a round fired from short barrels such as derringers...the old Remington originals...and the older muzzle loading cap locks...were used with solid projectiles. I guess using a soft lead bullet might give you some "flattening", not expansion really, but there it is.
FWIW, I had fun with my several derringers over many years, but my carry pistols are 2 small .380 auto pistols, and an old Colt Agent alloy frame .38
Spl...