Dillon Precision - not what it used to be

.38SuperMan

.38SuperMan

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Let me start by saying I've been a loyal customer of Dillon for close to 30 years now. Their customer service and policies were second to none. I at one time had 2 Square Deal B presses, one setup for small primers and one for large. Regrettably I sold one but still have one.

In the sale of one I let the 38/357 dies go with it and have since gotten back into 38/357. In early February this year I placed an order for another set of SQ D 38 dies and tool head. The tool head arrived but the dies were back ordered. Now a month later still no dies. So today I gave them a call and was on hold for nearly 30 minutes. No problem I understand companies are understaffed. Anyway I enquirer and asked when they might expect to ship. To my surprise the person said 6 months. I was almost speechless but did manage to ask why. His response was that they can't get the carbide for the dies and they're over their head in backorders. The customer service person said people panicked and that's the way it is.

Ok but the disturbing part is, Dillon charged the full amount to my credit card. I asked why and the clerk said that's what they do. My response was that's not very ethical and he responded "that's the time we live in". My final response was that Dillon Precision isn't the company it used to be and was basically told that's life.

I've read some other comments lately about Dillon going back on their no BS warranty. I had a little experience with that last year. I bought one of their original digital scales thirty years ago. It started getting erratic last year so called about a replacement. The short story, they reluctantly replaced it but said if the new one fails there's no warranty. No BS?

Anybody have similar experiences?
 
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Yeah, I've had a suppressor on order since January of last year. Paid in full up front, and you can't start the fed paperwork until it shows up, so I'm hoping to actually have it in another year. But I'm not unhappy. In the words of Dillon Precision, that's life.

If you're unhappy, cancel the order and buy somewhere else . . .
 
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What's unethical about what they're doing? I agree they may have been cavalier, or flippant, or even dismissive, but unless there's more to the issue, nothing unethical that I see . . .

.38SuperMan said:
I expected them to conduct business like they used to, ethically, but I guess "it's the time we live in". No I remember how the company conducted business when Mike Dillon was around. Foolish me!
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Muss Muggins said:
What's unethical about what they're doing? I agree they may have been cavalier, or flippant, or even dismissive, but unless there's more to the issue, nothing unethical that I see . . .
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I've been a business owner for thirty five years and I consider it unethical to charge a client for my services 6 months before I deliver the product. You as the customer are floating them a free 6 month loan. They're using your money free for six months. In my book that's unethical. The flip side, how about I get the dies and then pay you in 6 months with no interest? It doesn't work that way.
 
Duly noted. I can't help here . . .

.38SuperMan said:
I've been a business owner for thirty five years and I consider it unethical to charge a client for my services 6 months before I deliver the product. You as the customer are floating them a free 6 month loan. They're using your money free for six months. In my book that's unethical. The flip side, how about I get the dies and then pay you in 6 months with no interest? It doesn't work that way.
Click to expand...
 
It's great for Dillon but bad for the customer.

In the years I've owned my business I've had all kinds of clients that paid on time and others I've had to cut off. All of my business was corporate for large corporations to Fortune 500 companies. One of my clients, not huge but large, would contract services and not pay their bill for 3-6 months. We're talking $40,000-100,000. Not enormous but more than pocket change. The company did this to everyone and the owner refused to pay interest. What he was doing was pressing his clients to pay in less than 30 days and taking the money and investing it in short term CD's. This is when you could make money with CD's.

What happened was a showdown between several of the companies suppliers and the owner. The owner said if we pressed him to pay on time he would send his work to other suppliers. Our response was, if you don't pay your bills on time you can take your work to someone else because we're cutting you off.

The guy had millions out to suppliers each month and was holding them hostage he thought. This wasn't the only client I had to cut off.

It even happened with suppliers for my company. Order supplies and the company charge your account and wait months to receive them. For a while it was the trend to double charge your card or account hoping you wouldn't catch it or it would be 30 days and another 90 to resolve it with accounting or your credit card.

In 35 years owning my business I learned a lot of the nasty little schemes. I simply got to the point I wouldn't tolerate them and sent them packing.
 
I'm surprised they've exchanged electronic scales at all. I think current policy is one year on anything electronic. As for dies - anything reloading related is out of stock or back ordered. I wouldn't call it unethical; from what I've seen every vendor now has a page where you have to accept their terms that backordered items might take weeks and sales are final. I know, because few weeks back I've ordered some small stuff from Dillon and had to "click through" acceptance of terms. It's your choice, after all, you can backorder and hope for the best or just go someplace else (ebay or GB or gunshow).
 
iouri said:
I'm surprised they've exchanged electronic scales at all. I think current policy is one year on anything electronic. As for dies - anything reloading related is out of stock or back ordered. I wouldn't call it unethical; from what I've seen every vendor now has a page where you have to accept their terms that backordered items might take weeks and sales are final. I know, because few weeks back I've ordered some small stuff from Dillon and had to "click through" acceptance of terms. It's your choice, after all, you can backorder and hope for the best or just go someplace else (ebay or GB or gunshow).
Click to expand...

I'm not complaining about the back order, I'm complaining they charged for something they can't deliver for 6 months. Most companies don't charge until the product is shipped.
 
.38SuperMan said:
Let me start by saying I've been a loyal customer of Dillon for close to 30 years now. Their customer service and policies were second to none. I at one time had 2 Square Deal B presses, one setup for small primers and one for large. Regrettably I sold one but still have one.

In the sale of one I let the 38/357 dies go with it and have since gotten back into 38/357. In early February this year I placed an order for another set of SQ D 38 dies and tool head. The tool head arrived but the dies were back ordered. Now a month later still no dies. So today I gave them a call and was on hold for nearly 30 minutes. No problem I understand companies are understaffed. Anyway I enquirer and asked when they might expect to ship. To my surprise the person said 6 months. I was almost speechless but did manage to ask why. His response was that they can't get the carbide for the dies and they're over their head in backorders. The customer service person said people panicked and that's the way it is.

Ok but the disturbing part is, Dillon charged the full amount to my credit card. I asked why and the clerk said that's what they do. My response was that's not very ethical and he responded "that's the time we live in". My final response was that Dillon Precision isn't the company it used to be and was basically told that's life.

I've read some other comments lately about Dillon going back on their no BS warranty. I had a little experience with that last year. I bought one of their original digital scales thirty years ago. It started getting erratic last year so called about a replacement. The short story, they reluctantly replaced it but said if the new one fails there's no warranty. No BS?

Anybody have similar experiences?
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These are unique times. I wouldn't hold anything against Dillon at the moment. They are still one of the best companies in the shooting business.

The raw materials markets have been decimated in the past year.

I was able to buy a 38/357 conversion kit a few months ago though. I'll bet they will be back before 6 months.
 
.38SuperMan said:
I'm not complaining about the back order, I'm complaining they charged for something they can't deliver for 6 months. Most companies don't charge until the product is shipped.
Click to expand...

You may not have to wait that long. I recently ordered a toolhead and dies in 9mm for my SDB. They told me up front the dies would take several months to deliver. The toolhead arrived right away, the dies a few weeks later, so maybe your wait won't be as long as they said.
 
.38SuperMan said:
I bought one of their original digital scales thirty years ago. The short story, they reluctantly replaced it but said if the new one fails there's no warranty. No BS?
Click to expand...

You expect a company to repair/replace a 30 year-old electronic instrument on their own dime?
 
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Maurice H said:
You expect a company to repair/replace a 30 year-old electronic instrument on their own dime?
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They did and lived up to their NO BS warranty.

Some of you are missing my point. I'm NOT COMPLAINING about 6 months. Sure I'd like to have them BUT IM COMPLAINING about them giving themselves a free loan with my money. Not huge money, something like $109 but in my book it's unethical to flood a free loan on something they can't deliver fairly quickly.

A good example, my wife bought a pair of fancy jeans from Sundance clothing. Hey we're about $135 and we're ordered early October 2020. That's 5 months right. They arrived this week and my credit card wasn't charged until they shipped. That's an ethical company in my book.

Ok let's discuss my providing my services for your company. You pay me today and I'll provide my services in September. Get the picture?
 
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Back when Dillon was getting ready to release their shotshell press I was looking to step up from my MEC
Month after month they hyped the release of the new press. I called a couple of times asking questions and just got an answer meant to pacify me.

I found myself working in the Scottsdale area and stopped at the Dillons store. I was amazed at the arrogance I received when I tried to ask and employee a couple of questions about the press.

I promptly bought a Ponsness Warren 12ga press. I am incredibly happy that I did not wait any longer plus the blue one seemed very complicated in comparison.

A lifetime warranty is nice, but in reality most stuff simply does not break that much
 
Some do it, some don't. The policy was probably established in better times when the delay was only a week or so and nobody really cared. Times have really really changed. If they sat down and thought about it they may come up with a different approach but as I always say, it's their company and they get to run it as they see fit, and in general I think they do a very good job.
 
.38SuperMan said:
Some of you are missing my point. I'm NOT COMPLAINING about 6 months. Sure I'd like to have them BUT IM COMPLAINING about them giving themselves a free loan with my money. Not huge money, something like $109 but in my book it's unethical to flood a free loan on something they can't deliver fairly quickly.
Click to expand...

You're totally complaining about six months. Every time we buy something online with a credit card, the company gets the money and we wait on the product. Sometimes it gets there in a week. Sometimes in a month. Is that too long? What about two months? What's your baseline? It's like setting the minimum wage. The popular number is $15 an hour. But why not $16? Why not $14? There's no science or economics behind it. It's just a number. Like your six months. Would you be good with five? Still mad at seven?
 
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Muss Muggins said:
You're totally complaining about six months. Every time we buy something online with a credit card, the company gets the money and we wait on the product. Sometimes it gets there in a week. Sometimes in a month. Is that too long? What about two months? What's your baseline? It's like setting the minimum wage. The popular number is $15 an hour. But why not $16? Why not $14? There's no science or economics behind it. It's just a number. Like your six months. Would you be good with five? Still mad at seven?
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Did you read all of my comments. NO I am not complaining about 6 months. I'm complaining about using ones money for 6 months without delivering the product. And no most companies do not charge your card the moment you place an order if the item is out of stock. At least that's the way companies I deal with work.
 
Is "unethical" the proper word here? They have a policy and a process and they told you specifically how they will do it.

You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree with it. And you don't have to give them any of your business.

How are their ethics in question?

And if we can agree that ethics are extremely important, I should think we'd agree that it is a very serious charge to question a company's ethics.
Ok let's discuss my providing my services for your company. You pay me today and I'll provide my services in September. Get the picture?
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This is a perfect example.

You stated your terms clearly. If the service that you provide cannot be accomplished as well or at all by anyone else, and I need what you have, then YUP, I'm paying you and I'm waiting six months.

And if I don't specifically need YOU, maybe I'm shopping elsewhere.

So these dies that you need for a SDB are proprietary (I'm guessing you know that, others may not), so you can ask Hornady, RCBS, Lee and Redding, but none of those guys are going to make your Dillon SDB work for 38/357.

Your option is to accept their "charge now, deliver whenever" or to not buy from them.

But that doesn't make them unethical.
 
Read the warranty

Dillon does not have a lifetime warranty on electronic items, like the scale they replaced for you. They replace a 30 year old electronic device that was guaranteed for 1 year and you complain. New level of entitlement.
 
.38SuperMan said:
I've been a business owner for thirty five years and I consider it unethical to charge a client for my services 6 months before I deliver the product. You as the customer are floating them a free 6 month loan. They're using your money free for six months. In my book that's unethical. The flip side, how about I get the dies and then pay you in 6 months with no interest? It doesn't work that way.
Click to expand...

Are pre-paid funeral arrangements unethical?
 
Sounds like they have a cash flow problem. If they keep that up they'll be out of business in a year. Only a fool would let a company use their money for six months before delivering a product. That's what bank loans are for. I'm not a bank.
 
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ken158 said:
Now that your dies are paid for you won't get hit for a higher price when the are finally shipped. Makes sense to me.
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Midway does NOT charge you until the item ships. BUT if the card doesn't go through, the order gets cancelled, and you lose your place, and the original pricing you had at the time of the sale. It is only the way it is now because they WANT it to be.

I agree about the not the same with out Mike. I race Buicks, and have gotten lots of stuff from T/A Performance across the street from Dillon down in Scottsdale. Dillon doesn't seem the same anymore according to my inside guy there.
 
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