tumbleturn
Member
My 460 Performance Center with 10 inch barrel.
I first need to say this firearm I bought second hand. From what I could tell it had very little use and appeared to be in great shape. After shooting it I learned very quickly why they sold it. I got it out of Cabelas so I did not meet the previous owner.
Literally the first time I cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger nothing happened. That was the first sign this gun is a lemon. After calling S&W and them promptly sending me a hammer spring and adjustment screw I was still getting light strikes shooting double action. Single action was working 100 percent of the time and the primers that would not go off double action would go off single action . I got it to work after putting a dead large rifle primer over the adjustment screw it now worked 100 percent of the time double and single action but with a heavy trigger pull. So then I started working up loads for it. I plan on shooting bullets in the 300-325gr range at long distances. Well I could not get the bullets going any faster than advertised 454 Casull speeds. I measured the cylinder gap and it is within S&Ws performance centers excessive tolerances at .009”.
So I fight with the speed issue for a couple weeks trying 4 different brands of primers over 8 or 9 different powders including but not limited too BlueDot, Enforcer, 1680, Re#7, IMR4227, IMR 4189, H110/296, CFE BLK. 3 of the primer brands where large rifle magnum . The only powder that I was able to exceed 454 casull speeds was CFE BLK and to say that it is a compressed load is an understatement. So I bought a box of store bought 360gr. From Grizzly. The box claims 1850fps. The fastest shot I got was 1629fps the slowest 1602fps. By the way I shot this gun across 4 different chronographs and one day while 2 of them were lined up together. So it is not a bad chronograph.
Well I finally got tired of the hard double action trigger pull with the dead primer over the adjustment screw. Between the light primer strikes and lack of speed I call up S&W for the third time last Thursday. I want to send it back and make it right. The first 2 times I talked with them I tried to explain to them that .009” cylinder barrel gap is excessive. Then they explain to me that is within there very generous excessive tolerance. Well Thursday while talking to somebody about getting it fixed they wont make any promise of fixing the excessive cylinder gap. My plan was to send it back Friday on my trip into Carson City NV. I get up Friday morning and decide S&W no longer has a right to screw with me. There idea of tolerances is just too large. I decide instead to take it to a highly recommended gunsmith in Carson and have him fix the gap and look at the action, I cant get a hold of him and when I stopped by he wasn’t at his shop. I go by another gunsmith that I have dwelt with before that I was not impressed with then and I am still not impressed with. So when I get home I still have the gun and regretting not sending it to S&W. Saturday morning as I am laying in bed at 5am thinking what I should do I get up and go for it. I totally strip the gun. To make a long story short. First the observation there was absolutely nothing done to enhance the trigger or any part of the trigger mechanism as I was led to believe they did on performance center guns. After I have it all back together I just put the hammer spring in with a little tension and start working the action after the 4th pull of the trigger the hammer stops short of the firing pin. I apply a little pressure and there is something obstructing movement. I cock the hammer and a little flap of metal pops up. It is located up by the locating pin for the cover that is also the firing pin retaining pin. As I am looking at it the more I look at it the more I can tell the gun was never properly deburd. For 40 years I have worked in machine shops repairing machines from the mechanical to the electronics and computers basically if it is in a machine shop I fixed it. This performance center gun looks like armature hour. So now I have the light strike problem solved. Well this afternoon why I don’t know but I am staring at it and not 10 minutes later I have the barrel cylinder gap adjusted to .005”. It took me just 10 minutes and Smith and Wesson would not promise to do anything for it even when I offered to pay them. Basically I grabbed the appropriate diameter Philips screw driver stuck it in the ports of the brake applied maybe 15 or 20 pounds pressure and start unscrewing the brake then the shroud slides off. I unscrew the barrel to inspect it. I expected lock tight to be on it. But the threads at both ends were well oiled. I don’t have a problem with that. I screw the barrel back in adjust the gap to .004”. Screw the brake back on and here in lies the stupidity of the S&W engineering staff. The brake has left handed threads the frame has right handed threads. So unless they have some weird wrench that slides in the barrel and hangs on the rifling to keep the barrel from unscrewing from the frame when torquing the brake. Or in my case There is an art to tightening the brake and not at the same time unscrewing and widening the barrel cylinder gap. That is why they have such a huge barrel cylinder gap tolerance. It is going to widen the cylinder gap when the brake gets torqued. I would like to hear from the engineer and allow them to explain there stupidity of the left and right hand threads. It took me 3 tries but I have the brake at about the same torque that was needed to loosen it. The cylinder gap is now a tight .005”. I started at .002” and ended at .005”. That is just .004” less then the performance center found acceptable on this gun. A half hour later I am out in the Nevada dessert running 3 more of the 360gr Grizzly rounds over the chronograph. The slowest round today was 1708fps the fastest was 1748fps. Basically on these 360gr bullets removing just .004” off the barrel cylinder gap bought me just over 100fps. Now I no longer have a 454 casull and the 460 I bought.
Anybody looking to buy a 460 bring a feeler gauge with you if the gap is near the .010” performance center spec you are buying a 454 casull.
Hopfully I can find me a load again that has them touching at 25yds. That will be the start of my quest for a 1 mile shot with it. I am confidant I should be able to beat up on my 18x24 steel plate at 1000yds. I figure if Billy Dixon can borrow a 50-90 way back in 1874 an make a shot over 1500yds Well a mile should be doable on my IPSC plate with a modern handgun. My plan is either a 4 power or six power pistol scope mounted on top of my Cold Shot M.O.A.B 144 Mill base that is in the mail as I type this. Despite S&Ws bad intentions I am slowly bending this gun to my will.
I am totally unimpressed with the s&w performance center. IF I had this to do all over again I would go with a BFR in 45-70.
Mike
P.S.
Don’t get me started on the timing. Yet again s&w engineering stupidity at work. Totally unusable as a double action revolver.
I first need to say this firearm I bought second hand. From what I could tell it had very little use and appeared to be in great shape. After shooting it I learned very quickly why they sold it. I got it out of Cabelas so I did not meet the previous owner.
Literally the first time I cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger nothing happened. That was the first sign this gun is a lemon. After calling S&W and them promptly sending me a hammer spring and adjustment screw I was still getting light strikes shooting double action. Single action was working 100 percent of the time and the primers that would not go off double action would go off single action . I got it to work after putting a dead large rifle primer over the adjustment screw it now worked 100 percent of the time double and single action but with a heavy trigger pull. So then I started working up loads for it. I plan on shooting bullets in the 300-325gr range at long distances. Well I could not get the bullets going any faster than advertised 454 Casull speeds. I measured the cylinder gap and it is within S&Ws performance centers excessive tolerances at .009”.
So I fight with the speed issue for a couple weeks trying 4 different brands of primers over 8 or 9 different powders including but not limited too BlueDot, Enforcer, 1680, Re#7, IMR4227, IMR 4189, H110/296, CFE BLK. 3 of the primer brands where large rifle magnum . The only powder that I was able to exceed 454 casull speeds was CFE BLK and to say that it is a compressed load is an understatement. So I bought a box of store bought 360gr. From Grizzly. The box claims 1850fps. The fastest shot I got was 1629fps the slowest 1602fps. By the way I shot this gun across 4 different chronographs and one day while 2 of them were lined up together. So it is not a bad chronograph.
Well I finally got tired of the hard double action trigger pull with the dead primer over the adjustment screw. Between the light primer strikes and lack of speed I call up S&W for the third time last Thursday. I want to send it back and make it right. The first 2 times I talked with them I tried to explain to them that .009” cylinder barrel gap is excessive. Then they explain to me that is within there very generous excessive tolerance. Well Thursday while talking to somebody about getting it fixed they wont make any promise of fixing the excessive cylinder gap. My plan was to send it back Friday on my trip into Carson City NV. I get up Friday morning and decide S&W no longer has a right to screw with me. There idea of tolerances is just too large. I decide instead to take it to a highly recommended gunsmith in Carson and have him fix the gap and look at the action, I cant get a hold of him and when I stopped by he wasn’t at his shop. I go by another gunsmith that I have dwelt with before that I was not impressed with then and I am still not impressed with. So when I get home I still have the gun and regretting not sending it to S&W. Saturday morning as I am laying in bed at 5am thinking what I should do I get up and go for it. I totally strip the gun. To make a long story short. First the observation there was absolutely nothing done to enhance the trigger or any part of the trigger mechanism as I was led to believe they did on performance center guns. After I have it all back together I just put the hammer spring in with a little tension and start working the action after the 4th pull of the trigger the hammer stops short of the firing pin. I apply a little pressure and there is something obstructing movement. I cock the hammer and a little flap of metal pops up. It is located up by the locating pin for the cover that is also the firing pin retaining pin. As I am looking at it the more I look at it the more I can tell the gun was never properly deburd. For 40 years I have worked in machine shops repairing machines from the mechanical to the electronics and computers basically if it is in a machine shop I fixed it. This performance center gun looks like armature hour. So now I have the light strike problem solved. Well this afternoon why I don’t know but I am staring at it and not 10 minutes later I have the barrel cylinder gap adjusted to .005”. It took me just 10 minutes and Smith and Wesson would not promise to do anything for it even when I offered to pay them. Basically I grabbed the appropriate diameter Philips screw driver stuck it in the ports of the brake applied maybe 15 or 20 pounds pressure and start unscrewing the brake then the shroud slides off. I unscrew the barrel to inspect it. I expected lock tight to be on it. But the threads at both ends were well oiled. I don’t have a problem with that. I screw the barrel back in adjust the gap to .004”. Screw the brake back on and here in lies the stupidity of the S&W engineering staff. The brake has left handed threads the frame has right handed threads. So unless they have some weird wrench that slides in the barrel and hangs on the rifling to keep the barrel from unscrewing from the frame when torquing the brake. Or in my case There is an art to tightening the brake and not at the same time unscrewing and widening the barrel cylinder gap. That is why they have such a huge barrel cylinder gap tolerance. It is going to widen the cylinder gap when the brake gets torqued. I would like to hear from the engineer and allow them to explain there stupidity of the left and right hand threads. It took me 3 tries but I have the brake at about the same torque that was needed to loosen it. The cylinder gap is now a tight .005”. I started at .002” and ended at .005”. That is just .004” less then the performance center found acceptable on this gun. A half hour later I am out in the Nevada dessert running 3 more of the 360gr Grizzly rounds over the chronograph. The slowest round today was 1708fps the fastest was 1748fps. Basically on these 360gr bullets removing just .004” off the barrel cylinder gap bought me just over 100fps. Now I no longer have a 454 casull and the 460 I bought.
Anybody looking to buy a 460 bring a feeler gauge with you if the gap is near the .010” performance center spec you are buying a 454 casull.
Hopfully I can find me a load again that has them touching at 25yds. That will be the start of my quest for a 1 mile shot with it. I am confidant I should be able to beat up on my 18x24 steel plate at 1000yds. I figure if Billy Dixon can borrow a 50-90 way back in 1874 an make a shot over 1500yds Well a mile should be doable on my IPSC plate with a modern handgun. My plan is either a 4 power or six power pistol scope mounted on top of my Cold Shot M.O.A.B 144 Mill base that is in the mail as I type this. Despite S&Ws bad intentions I am slowly bending this gun to my will.
I am totally unimpressed with the s&w performance center. IF I had this to do all over again I would go with a BFR in 45-70.
Mike
P.S.
Don’t get me started on the timing. Yet again s&w engineering stupidity at work. Totally unusable as a double action revolver.
