Do you like the term "MSR: Modern Sporting Rifle"

[Vinney47]

I'm not really sold on the term "modern sporting rifle" for AR type rifles. I realize it's kind of a push back against the gun control proponents term of "assault rifle", but it just doesn't seem an accurate description of what it is.

What say you?

 

[M29since14]

I am all for the "pushback" and all that but really, it is just a civilian version of our current military rifle (carbine) and if the ninnies can't stand the fact that private citizens have always owned rifles similar to U.S. military-issue small arms then that is just too bad, AFAIAC.

 

[Lost Lake]

I don't use the term MSR. Mine is just an AR15.

If somebody doesn't like that, tough beans.

.

 

[shawn mccarver]

It all points to the silliness. The fact that the ninnies are all concerned over the "poodle shooter" is a sign that the ninnies do not have a clue about what they are trying to talk about or why. Why anyone should get upset over a cartridge that is not regarded by hunters as up to the task of deer hunting (supposedly the closest approximation to humans), and which has always been in the varmint or "crow blaster" category is mystifying to me. I mean, we are talking about a 22 here, folks.

 

[JPriest]

I like it better than assualt rifle, but would not likely ever say it.

 

[Ibmikey]

MSR reeks of "political correctness" so I call it what it is, an AR or AR-15. Never had anyone not know what I was referring to when using that term.

 

[M29since14]

Why anyone should get upset over a cartridge that is not regarded by hunters as up to the task of deer hunting...

Well, we're talking about the rifle, not so much the cartridge, but the point follows in either case. This is where the real problem with the "MSR" term comes in and why I think it a mistake to pursue. In reality, not too many hunters are going to fiddle around with an expensive AR15 (in any caliber) because there are better tools at less cost for any given job - the notable exception being target shooting where that specific rifle is required.

We set up ourselves for self-assisted failure trying to pass ARs off as serious "sporting" rifles. Can they be used that way? Sure, but that is more of a stunt, or personal preference, than anything else.

I dislike the term and think is contrary to our interests. An AR15 is what it is, and there is no reason why responsible citizens shouldn't own one if they want. I do like the analogy of the cordless electric drill and the old hand-powered drill. That might make some sense to the disinterested - and it is essentially what we are talking about viz-a-viz the difference between say a Civil War-era Sharps and an M16. But, if the disinterested become knowledgeable, the "MSR" argument eventually will be shot full of holes. Doesn't seem wise to rely on it.

 

[wbraswell]

An AR lower with a long, heavy, stainless barrel and flattop upper is exactly what a MSR is, wouldn't you think? It's certainly not a military type AR.

 

[Comrad]

It's a rifle, it's modern and used for sport....seems to me any consumer rifle made today is a modern sporting rifle.
The only thing being assaulted with this political correctness is our intelligence.

 

[Damn Yankee]

I call mine a "Defensive Rifle"

 

[gen3guy]

Don't sell the "gun control" weenies short. They will someday find a way to give a bad connotation to "modern sporting rifle". An "assault rifle" is any rifle that someone assults me with. That will make my AR-15 an "anti assault rifle". In a pinch, I suppose I could use my "sniper rifle", er., I mean my Remmington Model 700.

 

[arizona98tj]

In reality, not too many hunters are going to fiddle around with an expensive AR15 (in any caliber) because there are better tools at less cost for any given job - the notable exception being target shooting where that specific rifle is required.

You make it sound as though you can't be a hunter and enjoy the AR platform too. I like to shoot and I do hunt. I believe the AR platform is a great platform for some hunting. Why wouldn't I want to take my favorite AR lower and use it with several different uppers for hunting? A .223 for varmints, a 6.5 Grendel or similar for deer hunting, a .50 Beowulf for popping hogs in the thick brush, etc. FWIW, I'm waiting on the delivery of my 6.5 Grendel upper. I bought it with full intentions of it being used during deer season, among other things.

You say in reality, this isn't going to happen. Do you have numbers, stats, poll results, industry reports, etc. for that claim or is it more of a hunch on your part?

 

[shawn mccarver]

This whole unpleasantness reminds me of that idiotic scene in the Eddie Murphy movie, "Distinguished Gentleman," where the "gun lobby" took the congressman hunting using "black rifles." The scene showed these people firing on full auto UP IN THE AIR AT DUCKS. The whole thing was designed to portray hunters as idiots and ARs as useless for hunting.

There is little doubt that the American hunter and rifleman has followed the military selection of rifles for sporting use. Lever guns, then bolt guns, now ARs. Every hunter I know has remarked how nice it would be if his bolt action were as easy to clean as an AR. Think about it, no more torque wrench to remove the stock to clean and oil after a rainstorm. Scopes mounted by Picatinny rail, so no more bases mounted with tiny screws coming loose at the wrong time, ability to hold zero, change scopes much easier, etc. Bolt actions really are a pain.

The problem, as I see it, is that manufacturers will not even attempt to build the MSR/AR platform in readily available hunting calibers at a cost close enough to a bolt action to make it a no-brainer to buy the newer design.

What the world needs now is a mass produced AR that can handle .308 and .243 and similar rounds, but at a price closer to the Remington 783 or Ruger American. I find it hard to believe this cannot be done. If it were, it would be a rare hunter who would choose the bolt action.

The more people we get shooting this type of rifle as the norm, the fewer people will be duped into believing they should be banned.

Same thing for CCW. More people invested, less people to think it is a problem.

So, let us always be on the offensive, not the defensive. Let "them" worry about what WE will do next. Repeal NFA, interstate CCW, repeal CCW and make it so honest people can do it without asking permission - CCW anything you want as long as you are not prohibited from owning. "Instant check" done by computer by police IF you are stopped and they find it. No automatic arrest. Instead quick computer check. If you aren't a felon or nut or one of the other prohibited persons, the response is "nice pistol, have a nice day."

 

[BCDWYO]

What's wrong with calling them "AR-type rifles"?

 

[BillK01]

If it were, it would be a rare hunter who would choose the bolt action.

Sadly it would be every hunter in the state of PA as we cannot use semi-auto rifles for hunting. Only single shot, bolt action, pump or lever action. We can use semi-auto shotguns for small game and turkey.

I've always wondered just how many states allow semi-auto rifles for hunting since PA seems so old fashioned. Heck we've only been allowed crossbows for a few years now.

Oh yea - I'm not a fan of the MSR term either. I prefer AR15.

 

[arizona98tj]

Sadly it would be every hunter in the state of PA as we cannot use semi-auto rifles for hunting. Only single shot, bolt action, pump or lever action. We can use semi-auto shotguns for small game and turkey.

Laws can be changed....it takes effort and commitment but they can be changed. Arizona has seen quite a few tossed out or amended in the past couple years. No more magazine limits for hunting. You can hunt with a suppressor too. Hunting coyotes (and mountain lions) at night with a light.

State laws sure do vary, no doubt about that. For example....while AZ allows hunting with suppressors, in Minnesota, having a suppressor sitting in the gun safe in your house is a felony. And the last time, I checked, crossbows were not allowed either. (that could have changed but I doubt it).

Change can be made to happen....but it may not be easy to do.

 

[speedyquad]

MSR- Malcom Smith Racing...it's a company that has been making off road racing products for years as MSR. they make helmets, pants, jerseys, gloves, boots, and some add ons such as hand guards, etc. MSR just does not fit for me because of this.

 

[Vinney47]

In reality, not too many hunters are going to fiddle around with an expensive AR15 (in any caliber) because there are better tools at less cost for any given job - the notable exception being target shooting where that specific rifle is required.

I agree. I tried to have my cake and eat it, too - have the combat/battle rifle that also drives tacks. But the facts are (or my experience rather) is that if you set up an AR-15 with the components for max accuracy (coyote hunting) - heavy bull barrel of 20+ inches, scope, bi-pod, etc - then it ceases to become a combat rifle, or in the least isn't the most effective at that anymore. I started down that path (didn't swap barrels on my 15x) and just wasn't happy that I'd lost my CQB rifle.

So I re-tuned the 15x back with CQB items, and after some searching bought a Mossberg MVP, Varmint edition with the 24" free floated fluted bull barrel in bolt action 5.56. More accurate than any AR-15 (I know, them's fighting words) at $550 +glass. AND it accepts AR-15 magazines! Gets the most out the 5.56 round with cheap, plentiful magazines in variety. But it's not a good combat rifle.

 

[gunny4053]

I always thought it stood for " manufactures suggested retail". The "antis'" are already wound up, so a rose by any other name seems to fit. My feelings, call it what it is.

 

[oneyeopn]

I honestly dont have a problem with whatever they call them, assault rifle is not a correct term. I do like Modern Sporting Rifle, that defines a particular set of characteristics just like Bolt Action or Lever Action. AR isnt bad but can be misconstrued as assault rifle.

 

[Grayfox]

Its a rifle. If you want to get technical, its a semi-automatic rifle. Nothing more.

 

[Buford57]

I knew my Sharps and Krag were archaic sporting rifles, but I'm not ready to accept that tag for my stainless and laminate Ruger .280.

That said, I can imagine tactical uses for the Ruger, the Krag started life as a military rifle and if I am ever attacked by someone riding a bison, even the Sharps might be put to defensive use, so I suppose "sporting rifle" is not an inappropriate label for the AR family.

 

[oligoodday]

I like the idea "MSR" simply to get these politicians of out backs.

 

[Vinney47]

I like the idea "MSR" simply to get these politicians of out backs.

I too want politicians to leave firearms alone, but I just have to question if calling the exact same thing a less aggressive name will have any effect. that sort of thing did work to some degree on other things, for example with people coming into the country illegally - calling them undocumented workers instead of illegal aliens. it's all political bs.

I do think though that the image is more what some people are afraid of, the black scary gun, doesn't matter what you call it.

 

[arjay]

We can call it whatever we like,but to a non gun person it looks like an M-16.All we can do is explain what it really is.MSR makes nice snowshoes.

 

[DigiRebel]

Meh, I call em' semi-automatic rifles.

The first successful semi-automatic weapon was the Mannlicher Model 85 invented in 1885. Semi-automatic weapons are not modern. In fact the Mannlicher Model 85 would truly be considered an antique firearm (its nearly 130 years old).

The MAIN differentiation between the Mannlicher Model 85 and the "modern sporting rifle" is the stock. The first references I can find to a pistol grip on a long arm are from a British Baker Cavalry gun from 1803. So pistol grips are even older than semi-automatic.

Hell even the AR-15 itself isn't "modern" its basic design was invented in 1957 (nearly 60 years ago). The reason the design is so popular is because its ergonomically correct for shooting, and the placement of the pistol grip allows you to balance the weight of a rifle better, making it easier to carry and shoot a firearm with a larger receiver and barrel.

The facts as I see them:
AR style weapons are not modern. (if cars are classics at 20 years, and antique at 25, and the individual parts and functions that make up the AR are all WELL over 100 years old, then the AR is not *MODERN* its easily a classic firearm design by now.)
ARs are not assault rifles.
Assault Weapon is a BS term, like MURDER GUN! meant to evoke an emotional response, not as an accurate reflection of the firearm itself.

Calling an AR or AK style firearm anything other than by their name, or by an accurate description of what they are feeds the nonsense. Modern Sporting Rifle is better than "Evil black kid killer gun" but on the whole playing the grabber's game isn't going to be what wins us this fight.

 

[stwings]

Meh, I call em' semi-automatic rifles.

The first successful semi-automatic weapon was the Mannlicher Model 85 invented in 1885. Semi-automatic weapons are not modern. In fact the Mannlicher Model 85 would truly be considered an antique firearm (its nearly 130 years old).

The MAIN differentiation between the Mannlicher Model 85 and the "modern sporting rifle" is the stock. The first references I can find to a pistol grip on a long arm are from a British Baker Cavalry gun from 1803. So pistol grips are even older than semi-automatic.

Hell even the AR-15 itself isn't "modern" its basic design was invented in 1957 (nearly 60 years ago). The reason the design is so popular is because its ergonomically correct for shooting, and the placement of the pistol grip allows you to balance the weight of a rifle better, making it easier to carry and shoot a firearm with a larger receiver and barrel.

The facts as I see them:
AR style weapons are not modern. (if cars are classics at 20 years, and antique at 25, and the individual parts and functions that make up the AR are all WELL over 100 years old, then the AR is not *MODERN* its easily a classic firearm design by now.)
ARs are not assault rifles.
Assault Weapon is a BS term, like MURDER GUN! meant to evoke an emotional response, not as an accurate reflection of the firearm itself.

Calling an AR or AK style firearm anything other than by their name, or by an accurate description of what they are feeds the nonsense. Modern Sporting Rifle is better than "Evil black kid killer gun" but on the whole playing the grabber's game isn't going to be what wins us this fight.

I agree. The design is not modern. Most people who buy them do so for defensive purposes, plinking, or in the case of LE work related. I just prefer AR15.

 

[hangnoose]

WHAT'S IN A NAME?

quick and to the point answer for a change, NO, I do not like the MSR label. IMO it throws too wide a loop, too generic. would that include anything black, plastic, tacticool, military style? would a mall Ninja tricked out Ruger 1022 be a msr? as for hunting with a semi. the film the deer hunter set in my favorite state has a line I like. Diniro holds up a 30-06 round and says "this is this". one shot one kill. I believe in learning the basics from the ground up. learn to get close enough to make the first shot count. NOT, well when I blow the first shot the spray and pray from a 5,10,20,30 round mag should hit something. NOT trying to tell anyone what they should like or hunt/shoot with, just take the time to learn/practice and be proficient with whatever you choose. call it what it is so we know exactly what you are talking about. soon we will be calling guns, the Nerf warm and fuzzy game harvesting tool.

 

[rbuzz]

I prefer to call them AR-15's. I know the term Modern Sporting Rifle is more politically correct and is meant to somehow soften the public perception of the AR, but the anti-gun crowd isn't going to be fooled by that term, any more than intelligent AR owners are by the incorrect anti-gun term "assault rifle".

 

[S&W45Colt]

NO, I don't do PC. It's a sign of an easily led, weak minded person, which is the last thing I am or want to be.