Does an "L" frame .41 mag exist?

[Bullet Bob]

657's are N frames.

 

[Cpo1944]

I know John Taffin had Bowen Arms make him a .41 Special in a 586 a few years back, and it was a five shot revolver. I would wonder if they could make the .41 Magnum on that frame due to the pressure. To me the closest thing would be getting a .41 Magnum Mountain Gun.

I just received another Email from Mr Bowen answering my question about a 5 shot, and his answer is in his opinion the L frame is not strong enough for .41 magnum period.

So I believe my search is over. I found a used Tarus 415 offered at $350 .

What do you think is that a fair price?

 

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Jack,

Well, I'd say that's a more than fair price, if the gun is in great condition, and nice and tight. Is it stainless steel? Can you actually hold the gun and test it's condition? If yes, or if the seller will offer a return policy that would protect you if the pistol turns out not to be very nice, I'd say go for it.

I'm going to order several of the .41 Mag quick strips for my M415 this morning, and very much appreciate the information that was posted here, to lead me to them! Thanks!

Jack, please keep us posted on how your situation turns out, and if you do end up with that little Taurus, let us know how you like it. As for me, I've carried my own in several inside the waistband holsters, and even in an old Bianchi Bellyband that I like, and it carries very nicely, indeed. I like Winchester 175 grain Silvertips as a regular self defense load, and my little Taurus shoots them quite well. In any case, let us know how it all turns out for you. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

[NDMarksman]

.41 Magnum "L" Frame

Like some of the others here I have acquired the Taurus M415 and really like it. I purchased mine with no porting but it's at Mag-na-Port and should be back in a week or so. I also have a 4" and the 3" Tracker in .41 Magnum. I love em' all!

 

[aciera]

Old thread......
41 Mag in an L frame....no problem.......model 69 does fine in 44........mine is being rechambered to 45 colt.

 

[glenwolde]

Charter also made/makes a .41......

Review: Charter Arms .41 Mag Pug | An Official Journal Of The NRA

I figure even if you miss at close range you'll probably set them on fire.

 

[StrawHat]

Old thread......
41 Mag in an L frame....no problem.......model 69 does fine in 44........mine is being rechambered to 45 colt.

Not much metal left after rechambering. It should be an interesting conversion.

Kevin

 

[Cleandean]

Morning, Jack,

You are most welcome, Sir. Like you, I have turned up my nose at what I have always considered "off-brands", and to some extent, I still do. But, I also LOVE the .41 Magnum cartridge, and by extension, all firearms manufactured to fire it! So, when Taurus came out with their little 5-shot .41, and after reading absolutely glowing reports by Dick Metcalf, and many others, I decided to give it a try. The only problem I have had, so far, is that when I first got it, one cylinder hole was too tight, and I had to return it to Taurus, where they fixed it for free. I've not had any problems since then. If you would like to see my little .41, I will be glad to take and post some photos of it later today, or tomorrow. It carries VERY well, and the only down-side I can see is that there are no really good speed-loaders made for it. I did pick up some rubber ones, and they "do" work, after a fashion. But, they do not fill me with unending confidence, if you know what I mean. In any case, the little M415 is a very nice little revolver, and worth your time to investigate, if you have interest in such a thing. Mine has a 2.5" barrel, and fills the need for which I bought it. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

On a Gun auction site a curiosity. Shoulda saved it.
I just saw a vintage Colt Python … customized to simulate a factory .41 magnum. Rebored, rechambered, Roll marks, reblue.
Guessing it was okay to shoot lower pressure handloads.
The pics did not show any damage.
Colt only made a few, maybe only 2 prototypes . More “gunsmith made” examples exist, but not many.

 

[SuperMan]

Cpo never did come back and tell us how the Taurus worked out for him...

I have two of the Titanium Trackers with a 4" and 6" barrels...and one stainless 4" as well as a 4" stainless .45 ACP...all have been great shooters.

Have been looking for a 2" Titanium but the prices have gone well over a grand...

They make the perfect .41 Special... Most of my loads run between 975 and 1150 fps and are quite manageable.

Bob

 

[aciera]

Not much metal left after rechambering. It should be an interesting conversion.

Kevin

Well......like any revolver......44 to 45 means using lower pressure loads........I was surprised how thin the wall thickness was on the 69..........have to measure the chamber this weekend with Intermics......I chamber a tight 45 chamber. Dave Manson reamers
I’ve done 6 shot 475 by rechambering a 45 colt BlackHawk......ya just can’t be stupid.......
I may chamber to 45 S&W........seems appropriate doesn’t it......do a failsafe that way though the extra boiler room would be nice........I’ll be doing it end of next month.....doing a 329 at the same time......one light.....one smaller. And cuts for moon clips....30-06 for full length shotshells
A 480 Redhawk is in the plans at the same time. With the same cuts to use 284 Winchester for the short shells......looking forward to it.
With full moon clips

 

[aciera]

On a Gun auction site a curiosity. Shoulda saved it.
I just saw a vintage Colt Python … customized to simulate a factory .41 magnum. Rebored, rechambered, Roll marks, reblue.
Guessing it was okay to shoot lower pressure handloads.
The pics did not show any damage.
Colt only made a few, maybe only 2 prototypes . More “gunsmith made” examples exist, but not many.

Done out of Texas if I remember correctly........

 

[StrawHat]

Well......like any revolver......44 to 45 means using lower pressure loads........I was surprised how thin the wall thickness was on the 69..........have to measure the chamber this weekend with Intermics......I chamber a tight 45 chamber. Dave Manson reamers
I’ve done 6 shot 475 by rechambering a 45 colt BlackHawk......ya just can’t be stupid.......
I may chamber to 45 S&W........seems appropriate doesn’t it......do a failsafe that way though the extra boiler room would be nice........I’ll be doing it end of next month.....doing a 329 at the same time......one light.....one smaller. And cuts for moon clips....30-06 for full length shotshells
A 480 Redhawk is in the plans at the same time. With the same cuts to use 284 Winchester for the short shells......looking forward to it.
With full moon clips

How did the L frame turn out?

Kevin

 

[steelslaver]

I checked and measured my 696 and my model 69 and there is no way I would ream a model 69 L frame 44 magnum cylinder to 45 colt and fire any of my 45 colt loads in it. Most of my loads are in the 23,000psi range.

aciera I will be interested in your results also. On a light 45 colt why not start with a 325 and use a 45 colt cylinder? I also like tight 45 colt chambers with .452 throats and got most of my colt cylinders by reaming 44 mag cylinders

But, I do not see why anyone would believe an L frame would not handle 41 mags when the factory produces them in 44 mag. I would go with a 69 frame as it uses a bigger barrel shank than the 696 or 686 frames. Just turn a 41 barrel blank to fit the frame and sleeve. You would have to make the cylinder from the ground up unless you could somehow get S&W to let you have a 5 shot blank or a complete blank.

 

[jtcarm]

There are ".41 Special" conversions around that have been converted from L frames and from Ruger GP 100's. They are 6 shot. I guess a Python could be converted also. The "Special" is, of course, a lower pressure round, generally limited to about 1000 fps. The L frame sized gun does not have a large enough cylinder to handle full power .41 mags when opened up to that diameter. In the 60's some Pythons were converted to .41 mag. They are probably dangerous to shoot with full power loads. You see them pop up on GB every now and then, always claimed to be a "factory" conversion, but it didn't happen.

I’ve seen the Python .41 magnum.

Peebles Gun Shop in Arlington Texas turned them out back in the mid 80s. They were a small run of new guns, like Jovino did back in the day. That’s probably why some people thought they were factory.

The gunsmiths told me they had been thoroughly vetted and were safe. Peebles was no jerkwater LGS.

Dave Clements did .41 Special conversions of GP100s and L-frames, but I’ve heard he’s retired or in the process of retiring.

He did 10mm conversions on GP100s before Ruger started offering them. I inquired once about doing it with an L-frame. He replied that the forcing cone on an L-frame .357 barrel couldn’t handle 10mm pressures.

A medium-frame, 6-shot big-bore has always been mission for me as the perfect all-around handgun.

My GP100 10mm Match Champion 10mm comes pretty close. I just wish there was such a thing as 10AR brass.

 

[steelslaver]

Dave Clements did .41 Special conversions of GP100s and L-frames, but I’ve heard he’s retired or in the process of retiring.

He did 10mm conversions on GP100s before Ruger started offering them. I inquired once about doing it with an L-frame. He replied that the forcing cone on an L-frame .357 barrel couldn’t handle 10mm pressures.
.

The model 69 L frames with the shrouded barrels have a considerably larger barrel shank. They handle 44 mag pressures. The barrel isn't the problem as much as the cylinder if you want 6 rounds.

But. with a scandium N frame you dump a pile of weight over a steel L frame and the cylinder which is the fat part, is only .161 wider that is just a bit over 1/8" (.125)

I have 3 L frame 44 specials a 696, a 296, and a 396 as well as a L frame 44 mag mode 69. I carry a N frame 325 6 shot 45acp

 

[colt_saa]

I’ve seen the Python .41 magnum.

Peebles Gun Shop in Arlington Texas turned them out back in the mid 80s. They were a small run of new guns, like Jovino did back in the day. That’s probably why some people thought they were factory.

The gunsmiths told me they had been thoroughly vetted and were safe. Peebles was no jerkwater LGS.

John Taffin had the story on his website many years ago.

However he referred to the gunsmith as "Bubba" and not in the manner that we call a unskilled gunsmith by that name today. It was just meant to protect his identity

In this more than decade old group photo of my 41 Magnum firearms a 6" version of the "Bubba Python" is at the bottom

I have owned this revolver since 1995. It shoots great

Colt did manufacture and advertise the 41 Magnum Python. Back in 1965 several prototypes were produced, I was told 5. I was offered one but the price was out of my reach at the time. The Python was advertised in several calibers that never came into production. In addition to the 41 Magnum, there was the 256 Magnum, 22LR and 22 Magnum

 

[jtcarm]

The model 69 L frames with the shrouded barrels have a considerably larger barrel shank. They handle 44 mag pressures. The barrel isn't the problem as much as the cylinder if you want 6 rounds.

Yeah, I assumed the shank on the 69 was a lot more robust than a regular .357 barrel.

I don’t know exactly why the conversion isn’t feasible, but when a master revolversmith says it’s not, that’s good enough for me.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Charter Arms was mentioned above as having 41 Magnum in the Mag Pug, but that was an old post, as I think I noticed this thread was from '21. The post was from 8/17/21; Post # 26.
I would not pass one up if I saw a used one while looking for a 41 caliber handgun, but their action is kinda different compared to S&W's; for instance on one I own and a couple I've handled, you really gotta cock the hammer back for single action before it locks in place. Double action is okay, just a little stiff. Seems a little stiffer than a new Ruger, but I suppose it works out. Need to get that one out. I forgot I bought it a few months back.

 

[steelslaver]

Yeah, I assumed the shank on the 69 was a lot more robust than a regular .357 barrel.

I don’t know exactly why the conversion isn’t feasible, but when a master revolversmith says it’s not, that’s good enough for me.

At one point I was actually curious enough to buy and measure a model 69 barrel. The standard L frame one piece barrel uses, .562-36 threads and the 2 piece 44 mag is .638-36. Just .032 less than an N frame.

I believe he is probably correct using a 686 frame or an L frame 6 shot cylinder. I don't own an L frame 357 so I can't measure the cylinder wall thickness between chambers or outside wall.

But, here are a few things to ponder.

Colt Pythons have been made into 41 mags. Pythons have a 1.550 OD cylinder and L frames a 1.559

Plus, an L frame cylinder is .113 larger than an K, which would give you an increase of .0565 to the outside and the radius of a 41 case is just .0275 larger than a 357 case, so a 41 chamber on an L frame should be thicker than a 357 on an K frame ON THE OUTSIDE WALL, depending on the radius pattern of the chamber centers between a K and L frame. But. how much metal would remain between each chamber would be just as critical and the thickness between 2 side by side 357 chambers on a 686 would be reduced by .055. But then they make a 7 shot L frame 357. A 357 chamber is .379. that extra .379/6 is .0632. So in theory there should be enough metal

There is no reason in the world a 5 shot L frame 41 mag would not work built on a model 69 frame. Getting a 5 shot cylinder you could ream to 41 mag would be difficult

All interesting to think about, but as I am probably going to turn my lone 41 mag into a 45 colt because I have lost all interest in the 41 caliber, plus the fact I have no 6 shot L frame cylinders nor a 41 mag reamer, I doubt I will explore the possibilities farther that this discussion.

 

[cwneely2]

I have built several 41s on L frames and one Colt. My thought was to always use the factory lead load {we were required to use factory ammunition} and be able to use the high pressure load in an emergency. It worked well until I sold one to an officer with the caution about ammunition. He ignored the advice and put several boxes of jacketed loads through it. Interestingly the cylinder showed no damage but the barrel extension finally cracked. Good advice to chamber short for the special ctg.