English Handguns

gaucho1

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
597
Location
Farrrrrrrrrr West
Seems like the Brits somehow missed the boat on the look
their handguns.

I really enjoy the Spitfire and a number of Cars, but aside from
a certain steam punk flavor, I cannot bring to mind any sleek
and modern looking handguns.

The English doubles, both rifles and shotguns are my favorites.

Did I miss something? :cool:
 
Register to hide this ad
I agree regarding the handguns and long guns, and have always had a soft spot for British cars (as long as I didn't take a trip over 100 miles from my garage).
However, I feel that British handguns were more attractive than the Japanese, and you would expect the French to have had a better sense of style.

Bob
 
I would agree. The handguns are well built but challenged in the looks department. Their cars were just the opposite. They got both looks and quality manufacturing correct with the single shot and double rifles. My buddy has a Holland and Holland double rook rifle with matching H&H scope that is simply stunning.
 
The Brits don't have a history of handgunning. The few elite who were/are allowed to own guns were/are mostly restricted to shotguns and hunting rifles. Since only the wealthy could own guns, the guns tend to be high end models. Factory custom Mausers, and expensive double rifles and shotguns.

Having said that, I have one English pistol I find cute. It's sort of cute in an ugly dog way. You know, so ugly it becomes cute.

Bagged it at a local show for a C note because the action was frozen. Poured some solvent through it to flush out the congealed grease and it worked fine. It's a hoot to shoot with .358" lead bullets.


standard.jpg
 
Their revolver designs are quite classic. The Webley self loading pistol design is in that catagory too I'd think, certainly nothing new-age about the looks. I rather like them all in spite of that.
The Tarn 9mm was a simple, plain working pistol meant to do nothing more and be cheap to make as well.
It never got past the production of a handful of them in WW2. Kind of a stripped down Tokarev look.
Swift Rifle Co/England made them,,the original designer was Polish or Romanian (?) though IIRC. So it may not even fit in.

Vickers Ltd mfg'd (or at least assembled) Lugers in the early 1920's. The pistols (6k) were made for the Dutch Gov't at DWMs request.
 
Last edited:
This would be one of the steam punk examples, the Webleys
the other family.

Appealing in a late 1800s way, like steam locomotives.

Also some of the Bulldog pistols.

But not very elegant.

Yes, significantly better that Japanese handguns.

I also find the Howdow pistols to be appealing.

Really, nothing to compete with even a nice breaktop.








standard.jpg
 
Last edited:
The Brits don't have a history of handgunning.

That's even true in most of the British military. My father was issued a revolver because of his rank in the RAF in the early 1950s. I asked him what it was (Webley, Enfield, S&W) and how it shot. He had no clue. He could not recall firing it or even being issued ammo.

In the 90s I worked with a former RAF guy. He swore that the best thing to do if issued one of their worn out BHPs was to take the bullets out of the mag and throw them. He claimed it would be more accurate and then you could beat the guy down with the empty pistol.
 
Seems like the Brits somehow missed the boat on the look
their handguns.

I really enjoy the Spitfire and a number of Cars, but aside from
a certain steam punk flavor, I cannot bring to mind any sleek
and modern looking handguns.

The English doubles, both rifles and shotguns are my favorites.

Did I miss something? :cool:

Well, YES! You totally missed the gun control law of 1920 and the ever worse laws, culminating in the handgun ban of 1997.

With relatively few British sales, there was no incentive to develop new handguns! Not many Japanese pistols since WW II, either, and few before, and all for military use.

Frankly, the more pistol-wise British who could usually bought foreign guns. Churchill owned a Webley-Wilkinson .455, Model of 1892, but after the Mauser C-96 was introduced, was quick to buy one, as were other British officers, back when they all bought their own sidearms. In 1915, en route to war in France, he bought a .45 acp (not .455) Colt Govt. Model auto. In 1940, on forming the Commando regiments as Prime Minister, he insisted that the .45 auto be their standard sidearm and got one for his police bodyguard, although this man preferred to carry his issued .32 Webley auto, lighter and handier. Elite paratroop and Commando units made wide use of Browning 9mm's by 1944, and the SAS could for many years carry any handgun they could obtain in the UK or take from an enemy. Certain RAF pilots in WW II bummed enemy pistols in lieu of what they were issued. One had a .32 Beretta; the other a Luger. This latter guy, a hotshot Mosquito ace, was shot down over Denmark and captured by the Germans. He wrote that they weren't pleased to find his Luger, but didn't shoot him. He got the gun from a friendly RAF intelligence officer. It had been captured from a shot-down Luftwaffe crew.

But some British and colonial troops valued handguns and sneaked them home. When author Robt. C. Ruark made several safaris to Kenya during the Mau-Mau terrorist emergency years, he saw all sorts of both Allied and Axis arms being openly carried by former soldiers. Ruark had himself acquired a P-38 while a US Navy officer, despite being issued a .45 auto. He killed a man with it in a shootout in an Italian alley. (He "liberated" his .45 and a typewriter, too, but the Navy eventually caught on and billed him for both. Fortunately, by then, he could easily afford both.)

I've seen a photo of a 1950's white Kenya cop, maybe a reservist, wearing a USGI .45 auto on the usual webbing belt with M-1916 holster. Probably a personal gun, as their issued sidearms were Webley and S&W .38's.

The truly worthwhile British revolvers were the special Webley editions made for sale though the Wilkinson Sword company. Many officers were happy to buy both sword and pistol in one stop. These guns have finely polished blue finishes and hand-honed actions. There were models of 1892, 1905, and 1911. The latter two look almost identical to the later MK VI govt. issued one, but came earlier and were much better finished. These had checkered walnut grips with a gold oval for the owner's initials.

The WG models are also extremely well finished and with smooth actions.
Webley's auto pistols were also well made and effective, if ungainly in looks.

I think the only pistol activity in the UK in generations was an attempt to make a stainless rip-off of the CZ-75, called a Sterling, I think. Don't believe it had anything to do with the Sterling SMG company, but I never looked too far into it. LVSteve, being a former Brit, may know more.

He posted that his RAF father couldn't recall anything about his issued sidearm. My father was a petroleum engineer who was reluctantly drafted in WWII. I don't think he ever paid much attention to the weapons he had, although I think he had an M-1 rifle on Okinawa. He never talked much about his service, but wasn't too much into guns, although he owned a few. The average Briton in military service probably had a simiar attitude. After all, unless he was a member of the gentry, he couldn't own guns easily until relatively recent years.

In more recent times, many professional people who could afford to jump through the oppressive red tape did buy handguns and shot them at their gun clubs. When the draconian law of 1997 was rammed through Parliament by Tony Blair's leftist government, some stored their pistols in Belgium, planning to fly over and shoot them when they had time. I hope that's worked out well.

My former barber used to keep Cosmo among the magazines in her salon. I found a UK issue that had an interview with several British women who were outraged at the coming gun ban. Not all Brits are anti-gun!

Frankly, I think a lot of the British anti-gun sentiment and hatred of "blood sports" is pure class hatred, a matter of the common people and onetime peasants resenting gun ownership and game shooting and riding to the hounds as being lifestyles of the privileged upper classes. Gun laws from 1920 were designed to restrict gun ownership after the Russian revolution of 1917 making the ruling class fear a rebellion by Communist-inspired commoners. The British public did not, on the whole, embrace communism. But they lost their right to have and use guns, even in defense of their own homes. The Dunblane school shooting by a single nutcase enraged the public, encouraged by the left-leaning media, who are rabidly anti-gun. As in this country...
 
Last edited:
Well, YES! You totally missed the gun control law of 1920 and the ever worse laws, culminating in the handgun ban of 1997.

With relatively few British sales, there was no incentive to develop new handguns! Not many Japanese pistols since WW II, either, and few before, and all for military use.

Ahhhhh Sooooooo

No Markey-No Makey

;)
 
I love the Webley mkV and VI, also have an Enfield No2 mk1.
It was pretty rough and missing a few parts, I located what was needed and whittled some stocks for it....don't laugh.
It shoots well, though factory .38 SW is silly-light, 145gr barely gets 575fps in this thing.
b922785baaa4fd95978281ebf0d61bc6_zps0f11f3b0.jpg


Here it is pictured with a few S&Ws I had out that day.
312a325e9408250919484574d919f348_zpse57b4cfd.jpg
 
Back
Top