Ex Cop, now cop killer on loose in L.A. Careful.

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Not only that, it would be insane to burn the truck if it was a real breakdown as it would attract fast attention if he was on foot.

I think burning the truck was the plan from the start this guy is nuts and extremely smart. I would not be surprised if a body shows up in the truck and DNA test say its not him. This guys already proven he will go to any lengths to complete his agenda. I would not put it past him abducting a homeless person or just someone randomly to kill and use as a decoy.

I personally think might have had a ATV or Dirt Bike stashed a few miles ahead of where he torched the truck. He knew there was a giant storm coming to with lots of snow fall predicted. He used that to help hide his tracks and give a false since to LAPD that he was severally hampered.

I bet he had safe houses all over the city at different locations stocked with food, clothes, and guns. My guess is he is most likely held up in one of these locations for the next 2-4 weeks until things die down. Then we will either see this flare up once more or we will see LAPD officers start to vanish on calls.

I really hope I am wrong thought.
 
Can you imagine the horror the two women, simply delivering papers went through as their truck was riddled with bullets?! Apparently with no warning, if the officers had made any attempt to apprehend the driver they would have quickly realized it was not their guy!! How many vehicles do you think could match the description of the perps?! And they were WRONG!! Apparently they were prepared to blast away at any vehicle close to fitting the description! What they did was unbelievably reckless and they should fired immediately and not allowed anywhere near a firearm for life. Sorry for the rant but the reckless irresponsibility of their actions just floors me!
I fully concur with your rant. Any officer that fires on an unknown target or unconfirmed target such as occurred, should be removed from service. This is plain unacceptable performance.
 
Wowzers, alot of armchair detective work going on here! Anyone that thinks this guy off'd himself has played right into the hand he's holding! He may be nuts but he's surely not stupid and we haven't seen the last of him. His type of cunning is the most dangerous and he knows exactly what his next move will be.

I think we agree with you but axles do break unexpectantly and if his did, that creates big problems for him. If the towers broke it, I agree, we're back to the drawing board and the weather, all the snow, may actually be helping him. We shall see.....
 
May never know

If he is on crack he might have done everything because the voices told him to?

The trees might have told him there is safety up the road?

Perhaps it began with a good friend telling him how great this cigarette with a little LSD in it really is?

Someone at a coffee shop put a little something in his coffee?

We will only know when it is over. Or we will never know. The Mansion Family used a lot of LSD and they were suspected of killing one of their lawyers. (Book Helter Skelter).
 
What do you suppose this guy has cost us in taxs up to now in overtime, helicopters hours etc? The death of the leo, all the suffering, those kids familys. Think about the lawsuites those women will get. Its just starting.
I dont think on newer trucks axles will snap easily. I now think it probley was a towing screwup. They said it was two long range rifles and some survival gear in the truck. Hard to belive he would have sacrificed that stuff on purpose. Things in both theorys work against the other here.
 
Wowzers, alot of armchair detective work going on here! Anyone that thinks this guy off'd himself has played right into the hand he's holding! He may be nuts but he's surely not stupid and we haven't seen the last of him. His type of cunning is the most dangerous and he knows exactly what his next move will be.
Agreed. I don't believe this guy has been anywhere near Big Bear since the truck fire. He's holed up somewhere delighted with the chaos he has caused. With all the time he had to plan for this, I would bet he has vehicles, supplies, weapons, ammo and living space staged. The truck had been ID'd and was of no more use to him. The fire was a distraction. This guy is dangerous, big time. JMHO
 
Wowzers, alot of armchair detective work going on here! Anyone that thinks this guy off'd himself has played right into the hand he's holding! He may be nuts but he's surely not stupid and we haven't seen the last of him. His type of cunning is the most dangerous and he knows exactly what his next move will be.

Ill go with the 80/20 that he offed himself.
while its possible to survive up there, its not going to be easy. The downgrade in lifestyle alone would send most of us into a downward spiral of despair.
His strikes at the police officers do not impress upon me, any level of patience.
a lot rides on his axle.
if it broke prior to him torching it. its a big game changer.
 
Whether the axle broke unexpectedly, or not, he was headed down a fire road with guns and equipment (see:Fugitive Christopher Dorner abandoned pickup in Big Bear with broken axle, left weapons and survival gear - LA Daily News)

Regardless of how it happened, or why he set it on fire (which you'd think he'd know would attract attention), he was headed there for some reason. If he had to continue on foot unexpectedly, there was still some place he was headed to (another vehicle, a camp site, etc.). The big question is how close to his intended destination was he? If he was planning on camping for awhile, then why light the bon fire? Lots of questions, few answers.
 
Whether the axle broke unexpectedly, or not, he was headed down a fire road with guns and equipment (see:Fugitive Christopher Dorner abandoned pickup in Big Bear with broken axle, left weapons and survival gear - LA Daily News)

Regardless of how it happened, or why he set it on fire (which you'd think he'd know would attract attention), he was headed there for some reason. If he had to continue on foot unexpectedly, there was still some place he was headed to (another vehicle, a camp site, etc.). The big question is how close to his intended destination was he? If he was planning on camping for awhile, then why light the bon fire? Lots of questions, few answers.

Agree 100%. Now the question is how close was he to where he was originally going. Yep.
 
Ok. Let's review...

He murders two people in an ambush attack as they sat in their car on Sunday. Yes, that was planned.

He's publicly identified as a suspect on Wednesday evening. A few hours later, he's trying to steal a boat. He tells the victim he's fleeing to Mexico. So much for his asymmetrical warfare campaign...his instinct is to run.

Not much coolheaded planning there...he can't get the boat free. He may have been in the Navy, but he doesn't sound like he's much of a sailor, does he?

So, he abandons that idea and drives north east. Maybe he was going to attack one of his targets, maybe not. Anyway, he is spotted an LAPD officers follow him. He attacks them...but this is in reaction to them following him, as opposed to a pre-planned attack.

Fleeing the scene of that shooting (note that he didn't stand his ground to shoot it out), he comes across unsuspecting Riverside PD officers and ambushes them, killing one. Again, not a pre-planned act like the murder on Sunday, but a target of opportunity.

Let me pause to offer my thoughts and prayers to Dorner's victims, and their families...

Back to my recap:

Now, on the run, he apparently drives to Big Bear. He abandons the car, which, according to news reports, has a broken axle. He burns the car, leaving behind weapons, according to news accounts. Why leave behind guns if you have a car stashed? Why try to steal a boat in San Diego if you have a car stashed in Big Bear?

Remember, this guy lived with his mom, apparently.

So, unless he has an accomplice, he winds up in Big Bear afoot...not because of a carefully constructed battle plan, but because of a series of impulsive acts.

He burns the car. Why? A diversion? To destroy evidence? Who knows? Remember that both oars aren't in the water here. We try to look for logic in the behavior of some one who is behaving in an irrational (and homicidal) fashion. My guess...another impulsive choice, that made sense to him at the time, but a bad choice, as it drew LE up there in force.

What now? Well, unless he's prepared to go camping, he's in real trouble, due to the weather. He needs food, water and shelter. This isn't a guy who went through SERE school. If his first plan was to hop a stolen boat to Mexico, he probably didn't pack his North Face gear. So, did he have time, after the failed boat theft attempt, to prepare to hole up in Big Bear? Did he run home to his mama's house and pack for a week in the mountains in February? Did he have the time to think about the weather? Or did he flee up there on impulse (like the boat theft attempt) and discover that he really wasn't up to the task.

Bottom line, he managed to plan and carry out the first attack. There was no external pressure on him at that point. However, the recent events do not seem to be part of a plan, but a hastily improvised escape attempt carried out under external pressure: fear of capture.

So much for his asymmetrical warfare campaign and on-line bravado. Unless he can find shelter or transportation, he is in real trouble out there. If he is still alive, that is. After all this excitement, he's likely to crash, emotionally. Maybe depression and hopelessness set in. That could lead to suicide. A lot of cop killers commit suicide within days of their offense. Even if not suicidal, unless he has shelter, the weather conditions are life threatening.

Is he dangerous? If still alive, and he sneaks up on you, yes. He is homicidal. But he is no commando, no super warrior. There is nothing in his background to suggest otherwise. He has been lethal when he has taken his victims by surprise.

Last thought: the allegations in the "manifesto" should be take with a huge grain of salt...it's all grandiose, self serving and it would be a mistake to assume his allegations are true.

He is (or was) driven by inner demons and serious mental illness. The "Cause" is NOT the cause, it's an excuse. An excuse for the inexcusable murder of innocents. Don't buy it.
 
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Good points, Lew, but you introduce another hinge point. Was the bid to take the boat real or Memorex?

The truck burning has also bothered me. Stuff that burns makes smoke and draws attention. Is that what you do when your vehicle unexpectedly lets you down and you are on the run? Only if you are looking to draw law enforcement in for an ambush, but there was no such attempt. Maybe the LEO response was too good for him in terms of caution, numbers and helicopter coverage. I have no clue and I doubt we will ever know for sure. All we can do on this forum is wave our arms about and hypothesize, in a civilised gorilla approved manner, of course.;)
 
LVSteve,

Thanks for your post.

As we sit back and speculate, we would all be well advised to periodically remind ourselves that Dorner's actions are irrational. It's tempting to theorize about his intent, but we do so with our own lens, which, hopefully, is rational. The human tendency is to make sense out of the senseless. But that tendency is misleading when analyzing irrational, senseless behavior.

The burning of the car could simply be emotion driven. Or the product of some improvised strategy. The key thing is that he left guns behind. That, to my speculation, suggests he is afoot and without assistance. I don't think he would abandon guns, symbols of power to him, unless he absolutely had to. But, there I go, applying rational analysis to his actions, so take it with a grain of salt.

Ever since the media outed him as a suspect in the Sunday double murder, he has been running away (caveat, I'm not sure why he was in Corona in the vicinity of one of his targets, just prior to the first shooting of police...maybe he was contemplating an attack there, on his terms...but, in any event, after the police shootings, he has stayed on the run).

In time, the answers to most of our questions will surface, if only we accept those answers. The answers are likely not going to be very satisfying, so there will be a tendency to reject the plain truth in favor of a more dramatic (and therefore satisfying) narrative.

As to your question about the boat theft attempt...my guess is that it was a genuine attempt to flee. Perhaps he lied to the victim about his destination, but it sounds like he was on the run. I doubt he would abandon that attempt deliberately, as a misdirection, because the reason the attempt failed was due to his incompetence. I don't think his narcissim would allow him to "fake" incompetence for any reason. Just my guess, and we know what those are worth. Anyway, whatever happened with the boat, and when it happened, should be easy enough for LE to confirm.

The hard part will be finding him up in Big Bear, particularly if he's died either by exposure or his own hand. And, if he's not found, the speculation will continue and the legend will grow.
 
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I'll try keep to this brief..... my 35 years in Law Enforcment tells me several things about this issue

1. The suspect is not dead.
2. The suspect is lying low as he is resting up for Round 2 of his plan.
3. Part of his plan is to pych law enforcment out, and he is doing a
very good job of doing that.....
4. We have not heard the last of him and this will not end well.....
5. I don't think he will ever be taken alive, as he would rather die then take
the Walk of Shame to Jail and in front of a Judge and the Court System.
5. This suspect has problems that we have not heard about yet.
6. The three (3) Murdered Victims of this suspect did nothing to the
suspect at all. They were innocent victims, all three (3) of them.
7. It does not matter what you think of the LAPD, these officers and their
families should not be a target by a mad man. We have a Justice System.
8. If he has a beef with the LAPD there are a number of agencies that he can
file a complaint with for them to investigate.
9. What interests me is that he was fired from LAPD in 2008 and yet this
starts in 2013.
10. Last date as a Navy Officer was Feb. 1, 2013 which I think set him
off. It is interesting that the Navy has tried to stay out of this mess
in spite of this and has not stated why he was let go from the Navy.
11. He gives the Navy a pass but blames the LAPD for everything that has
gone wrong for him.
12. One of his ex-girlfriends has basically said he had many problems and
she quit dating him because of it.
13. I think he has this well planned out and I don't think he is in the
mountains. We will hear from him again and it won't be to speak to anyone.
14. As we all know there are some bad apples in any large organization, I
don't think you should get a pass for shooting the people that you
don't like at work. It sure hasn't worked at other Business Place Violence incidents.
15. I am very disappointed that some people are making a "hero" out of
him. He is a mad man and a murder not a hero. It is a shame that
some people get so turned around on what is right or wrong.
16. Don't believe in everything you hear in the news media. They get it wrong often.
17. Having been in more than my share of "Officer Involved Shooting" Incidents while on duty, all I can say that unless you have "been
there, done that" to really understand what takes place during them and how you react to it, it is just an unknown on how you will really
react. I know that we have a number of people that pack a handgun and say what they would do it they had to use it, but until you
have "Seen the Elephant" it is all talk. Talk is cheap and anyone can do it.....reality is a great deal different than what is discussed
reguarly. I know this from first hand experience......I may not be an Expert but I have stayed at a Holiday Express before...........
18. I am not giving a "pass" to the LAPD and Torrance PD officers that shot at innocent people, they should be investigated and proper action
taken against them.
19. The Suspect said that he was only attacking the LAPD but ambushed two (2) Riverside PD officers sitting at a traffic light, they never had
a chance.... The Suspect is a Coward and a Bully.......
20. My oldest daughter (who I am very proud of) is a Southern California Police Officer (not LAPD or Torrance PD). She is doing her sworn
duty and has been looking for the suspect. I would ask for your prayers to keep her safe. She is an honest, excellent cop trying to do
the right thing and protecting her community.

OKay this was my personal 20 cents worth and know I guess it wasn't too short.......but it is something for you to think about....... Not
all Cops are the enemy... most cops are truly here to protect and seve their community.....
 
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We get it. You're full of righteous indignation. But there IS a thing included in the elements of many crimes called: "Intent". Are you really trying to compare the specific intent that this killer used with the negligence that the cops who shot up the truck may have been responsible for?
There's also a thing called "recklessness".

If I decided I had second sight and wanted to prove it by driving down a busy street blindfolded, would I NOT be committing a crime if I ran over a dozen people, even though I had no specific intent to run over ANYBODY?
 
I take a different approach to this---I come from the same readings but come to different conclusions. Well, I have not come to ANY conclusions but some here seem to have done so.
Who is the mentally ill one here ?
He might have reaced a breaking point but does that brand him mentally ill.
What if all he says is true----WHAT IF?
Some want to take the thing to court right now----What if?
Why do I give this thing--what if---a chance. ?
LAPD comes with a history which may give some clue.
All BIG PD's have a history---they are not all the saints they would project. Does that make them all guilty ? I would say no---but that is really not what we are considering here.
I want to KNOW what is really going on here.
Possibilities do not favor this need though.
One thing for sure---A sleuth will not find this man---he is going to have to make a mistake.
Blessings
 
Williamlayton,

Ok, what if his allegations are true? Let's assume so...

And he does what?

Walks up to a car Sunday night and pumps rounds into two helpless people that have no connection to his termination from the LAPD which, by the way, happened years ago.

He murders the daughter of the lawyer that defended him, and her fiancé. That's his opening salvo. To "terminate" the family of someone he thinks wronged him? That's how he seeks to clear his name?

It's irrational and incongruous with his statements about his supposed desire for justice.

If that level of irrationality and violence doesn't suggest mental illness, nothing does.
 
Lew....good analysis. Lots of excellent points. Maybe he isn't superman afterall. But the stakes are high. Just one more hit and you and I and lots of others are back to the drawing board. But you made some excellent points.
 
Also, 2 developments yesterday last night that increase a very remote possibility that he surrenders. 1. the LAPD reopened his case including the accusations he made against them. And 2. Actor Charlie Sheen has issued a brief statement asking to talk to him.

And, I am reading that he is actually developing some kind of sick and twisted following of sick and twisted people who are now claiming he is some kind of hero taking on the system, racism, etc. I expect some cable stations to morph towards a more "Justifiable" rage position.

And this guy loves it.......if he's aware of it.
 
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