Excessive slide to frame play?

[GetRekt]

My M&P Pro rattles like that when shaken. So does my M&P Full Size. My Sheild, not so much.

On my Pro I don't have nearly the amount of slop you seem to have at the muzzle end. On the rear they appear to be the same.

Good luck dealing with S&W. I've sent video's to them in the past. I was told flat out that the "gunsmith's" don't have computers nor the time to look at video's. You will have to get this escalated somehow to get someone to look at the video and communicate with the gunsmith's. It took me two round trips to S&W to have them look at a video concerning sloppy roll pin fit. And in the end I was told that there was no problem as far as they were concerned.

Best of luck. But if I were to place any bets, based on my own past experiences, you'll get your gun back with a nice form letter saying "It's fine".

Lovely, and exactly what I'm afraid of.


I'm really kicking myself in the *** for buying this thing.

 

[GetRekt]

Just called again and spoke to a gentleman that was more helpful.

He was receptive to my issue, and didn't seem to surprised by it. He even specifically said that they've gotten pistols back for key holing, because I asked. So that's definitely not "physically impossible."


Anyway, I'll be sending the pistol back. I hope it comes back soon and shoots as good as the shield does.

 

[GetRekt]

Another update:

I spoke to the shop that sold me the gun. They are willing to basically trade me for a glock 34. I will end up paying 90 dollars, but at least I'll be done with this sooner rather than later. I compete weekly and I'm just not willing to go back and forth with smith if I can avoid it.


Thanks again for the help and understanding guys.

I'll continue to shoot and enjoy the shield, but I'm washing my hands of this ****.

 

[Llando88]

I don't think I'll be able to get over it either. I just sent S&W an email with a link to the video. Hopefully they take care of me, but from what I've seen they basically just say that this is "within spec" judging from other posts on this subject.


I'm disappointed to say the least. Especially since this is a "pro" model.

I very much was excited to get this gun for competition, but I feel like I should have just stuck with glock at this point. Hopefully that changes.

Welcome to the Forum.

I'd say it is not necessarily 'you'.

Below are a few sweeping genaralizations about 9mm M&Ps based on observing this forum since buying my FS in Nov '13. Take them with a grain of salt.

The M&P 9mm has poor QC in slide to frame fit. You are lucky if you get one that does not rattle. Mine does. It seems to be how they are.

The M&P is also hit or miss (pun intended), especially the 9mm. It is not clear to my why the gun is inconsistent; folks more expert than I have said it is a 'barrel to slide' lockup issue. Some shoot well. Some do not.

To your gun: the accuracy vs. ammo seems odd. I agreee with Rastoff, benching the pistol, perhaps with a known quality load e.g. Gold Dot 124+P's might isolate the gun.

I wanted to also mention that your key-holing issues sounded somewhat like this thread. May be some ideas here:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/408303-chris-costa-m-p9-issues.html

Bottom line, IMHO if you want a long gun for competition, the Glock 34 probably is a better bet that the M&P you have. Sure, you can send it back to S&W, but who knows whether/if they will change something.

It is frustrating, because there is a lot to like on the M&P.

I genuinely hope you get to the bottom of it. Myself, I bought an HK VP9 and rarely shoot my M&P these days.

Rich

 

[Llando88]

Another update:

I spoke to the shop that sold me the gun. They are willing to basically trade me for a glock 34. I will end up paying 90 dollars, but at least I'll be done with this sooner rather than later. I compete weekly and I'm just not willing to go back and forth with smith if I can avoid it.


Thanks again for the help and understanding guys.

I'll continue to shoot and enjoy the shield, but I'm washing my hands of this ****.

Excellent idea. Glock 34 is reputed to be an excellent shooter.

 

[Llando88]

If I had $1.00 for each post by an experienced shooter that was hitting low-left and insisting that it was the gun and not the shooter, I could buy another M&P.

By the way, the sights on these things are designed to have the front dot on point of aim, not 6 O'clock. Image #3 is correct.

Could you expand a little on your source for sight picture #3 being 'designed for'?

Thanks.

Rich

 

[Muss Muggins]

Well, I'd have to say that is absolutely false, with evidence.

Even rifles with 16+ inch barrels can key hole at 10 yards or less. So you're telling me a pistol can't key hole 3 yards closer in? Please.

I can bring up a few instances of a shot out AR15 barrel (or poor ammo) key holing at 10 yards with some digging. With one quick google I can bring up at least one example within minutes.


So a rifle with a barrel 3 times as long as the M&P can key hole at 10 yards, but the M&P can't key hole at 7 yards?


Tell me more about your physics. Go back to science school.

I've watched your videos. Your target is held at the top and unsecured at the bottom. Physics dictates that the target will push back at an angle from the bottom when one fires as rapidly as you are firing. When the bullet goes in to the target with the target is at an angle, the hole will not be perfectly round.

The insults are unwarranted.

 

[GetRekt]

I've watched your videos. Your target is held at the top and unsecured at the bottom. Physics dictates that the target will push back at an angle from the bottom when one fires as rapidly as you are firing. When the bullet goes in to the target with the target is at an angle, the hole will not be perfectly round.

The insults are unwarranted.

So the key hole I got on a fresh target, on the first round of the magazine is from me rapid firing?

Right.


And what insults? Go back to science school? Come on.

 

[NCavi8tor]

Get off the internet and go shoot the damn thing. There's nothing wrong with that pistol!

NC

 

[Rastoff]

It's a shame you're gonna cut and run from this gun. The M&P is a good gun. I don't think you should give up so easily. I mean what happened to...

That's the best shooting I've ever done with a pistol, ever.

...and...

...then it became the most accurate pistol I had ever shot.

Look, I'm not trying to get your goat. It's just that with comments like that, I'd have thought you'd at least try to get some satisfaction. I mean, isn't hitting the target accurately the most important part? Didn't you shoot this gun the best ever? Who cares if it has a little slop that isn't affecting your accuracy?

If you do trade it in for the Glock, I hope you at least give the challenge a try. I don't really care what gun you use. It's all about getting better and I'd love to see you shoot it.

 

[GetRekt]

It's a shame you're gonna cut and run from this gun. The M&P is a good gun. I don't think you should give up so easily. I mean what happened to......and...Look, I'm not trying to get your goat. It's just that with comments like that, I'd have thought you'd at least try to get some satisfaction. I mean, isn't hitting the target accurately the most important part? Didn't you shoot this gun the best ever? Who cares if it has a little slop that isn't affecting your accuracy?

If you do trade it in for the Glock, I hope you at least give the challenge a try. I don't really care what gun you use. It's all about getting better and I'd love to see you shoot it.

The issue with that statement is that this is also the ONLY 5 inch pistol I've ever shot, so naturally it should be the most accurate if it's shooting well. The max barrel length on any pistol I own (other than the smith and soon the 34) is 3 inches. Naturally the extra 2 inches will give me the most accuracy I've ever had.



When it shot well, it was a tack driver. When it didn't, it was terrible. And it was terrible the majority of the time. But I bought this gun for competition, and I will shoot all different types of ammo. You guys can choose not to believe me, but the gun absolutely was intolerant of certain ammo. Blazer brass shot extremely well, the other did not.

Problem is I bought this gun for competition, and if I'm sending it back and forth to smith 3 or 4 times (which numerous people have told me they had to do, for exactly my issue) I'm not getting to use it. That's potentially 3 months worth of not being able to use it.


That just doesn't seem appealing when I can trade it for a gun that I pretty much know will work, the first time. Not to mention glock inc is about 30 minutes from me so if I do have some sort of issue (which I've never had in 10+ years of shooting glock) I go there and fix it same day. I don't send the gun off for 3 weeks.

That's just where I'm at right now. I have such little confidence in the gun that I didn't even use it in my match last night....which is what I wanted it for.


I appreciate that smith can make great guns. My shield is amazing, but this pro is a **** - plain and simple. If anyone here is so sure that the gun is just fine then please buy it from me. I'd take it to my FFL this afternoon.

And sure I will shoot in the challenge. I enter basically any and all competitions/matches I can find. Never done one on the internet but I'm sure I can figure it out. Haha.

 

[GetRekt]

Get off the internet and go shoot the damn thing. There's nothing wrong with that pistol!

NC

Buy it from me then. It has had exactly 320 rounds through it, and has been cleaned.

Pay me and I'll transfer it to an FFL of your choice this afternoon.

 

[Rastoff]

In all honesty I would love to buy the gun from you. Alas, it's not on the "approved handgun last" so I cannot.

I look forward to seeing your target in the challenge.

For the record, I understand your frustration. I think S&W would make it right, but I understand why you might want to trade it.

 

[handejector]

GetRekt,
Welcome aboard.
Don't judge us all by the few.

It disgusts me when people say a person is whining just because they post about a problem. Yes, this is a freakin' problem, not just for any pistol, but especially a Pro model.

Stay here please and try to ignore the name-callers. I'm on your side and so are others.

Well said.

I just deleted several posts.
I think we're pretty well done here, but if you have something of substance to contribute, jump in.
If not, move along......

 

[WR Moore]

Item 1: so long as the barrel and slide of a pistol lock up properly and repeatably, the pistol can be very accurate when hand held. The sights are, after all, on the slide. Now, if fired from a machine rest, it may be another story, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Folks, I used to build pistols and the glory of the hand fit slide/frame is salesmanship (and money in the builders pocket)-unless you're an National Match/Olympic grade marksperson. If most of us are shooting USPSA/IDPA stuff, such fitting may be heart warming, but it really isn't really relevant.

Item 2. Yes, ammunition quality can make that big a difference. I strongly suspect the bullets in the original ammo to be undersized.

Item 3. I was going to comment on the dotted sights......never mind.

 

[attrapereves]

In handguns, ammunition shouldn't make that much of a difference. My Glocks, CZs, and Berettas all shoot various 115 and 124gr brands the same.

It's unacceptable that a PRO model new pistol is that loose.

I've tried M&Ps three different times. Each time they ended up getting sold after a few range trips. They just don't work for me. In order to keep the cost down, S&W has to cheap out on a few things. It's pretty obvious when you handle other similar pistols that are on the market.

 

[Magload]

We are not buying match grade target guns these are M&P for a reason. SD weapons. Yes they are used in USPSA/IDPA but those are SD type matches. Your are not going to see them at a Bullseye match. Just check the price difference. I earned my pistol medals in the Navy shooting a rattleing worn out 1911 I was issues these M&Ps would have looked like match grade compared to it. Ok sorry my rant is over shoot what you got and like what you shoot and be happy. Don

 

[GetRekt]

Item 1: so long as the barrel and slide of a pistol lock up properly and repeatably, the pistol can be very accurate when hand held. The sights are, after all, on the slide. Now, if fired from a machine rest, it may be another story, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Folks, I used to build pistols and the glory of the hand fit slide/frame is salesmanship (and money in the builders pocket)-unless you're an National Match/Olympic grade marksperson. If most of us are shooting USPSA/IDPA stuff, such fitting may be heart warming, but it really isn't really relevant.

Item 2. Yes, ammunition quality can make that big a difference. I strongly suspect the bullets in the original ammo to be undersized.

Item 3. I was going to comment on the dotted sights......never mind.

Interesting. I wish I had one of the bullets left, I would have measured one with a caliper. Maybe I have one loose that fell in my range bag or something. I will look tonight.

 

[GetRekt]

We are not buying match grade target guns these are M&P for a reason. SD weapons. Yes they are used in USPSA/IDPA but those are SD type matches. Your are not going to see them at a Bullseye match. Just check the price difference. I earned my pistol medals in the Navy shooting a rattleing worn out 1911 I was issues these M&Ps would have looked like match grade compared to it. Ok sorry my rant is over shoot what you got and like what you shoot and be happy. Don

Well respectfully I was getting foot wide groups at 7 yards, I don't consider that acceptable accuracy. Especially when I can repeatedly get 3 inch groups with my tiny little shield 9mm.


Also a little tidbit that I forgot to add in this whole time. The shield was accurate.....even with the suspect ammo.


Anyway, yesterday I took it back to the gun shop and left with a 34. I'm happy.

 

[WR Moore]

Sorry it didn't work out for you. Another cause of strange groups is interference in the firing mechanism. If anything interferes with clean hammer/striker travel, groups can be severely impacted. However, since the Federal ball worked well, that might not be the case-or the interference disappeared.

Think the LGS would take $50 for it?