Firearms are next on the agenda

[StatesRightist]

Fast and the Furious/Gunwalker was an obvious attempt to paint the minority % of American Gun owners guns that are found in the possession of Mexican drug cartels as the primary source of the cartels illegal guns. I don't see where anyone other than the anti-gun and/or the far left crowd even debates that.

Let me ask you a question...feel free to answer it or not McBear...call it a hunch...you are/were an NEA etc Union Member ....teacher, city worker or some version there of?

As far as your school girl gossip quip goes....You are seriously trying to say that the left and the White House have no desire to curb gun rights or ownership?

I've seen too many of your posts to think you are obtuse, you are obviously well read, which is why I can't see your posts in these areas as anything other than obfuscation or as an attempt to dissuade people from legitimate gun owner's concerns. Forgive me if I am wrong, I do want to falsely judge your motives.

 

[Stick895]

Everybody get out and vote and vote for pro-gun candidates.

 

[RaceBannon]

Mcbear, if you're 57 years old, you were about 13 in 1968.
You may have been too young to understand what was happening, but they didn't make gun ownership easier.

Heller was a 5/4 ruling. Don't tell me that nobody wants to take away guns.

 

[McBear]

Fast and the Furious/Gunwalker was an obvious attempt to paint the minority % of American Gun owners guns that are found in the possession of Mexican drug cartels as the primary source of the cartels illegal guns. I don't see where anyone other than the anti-gun and/or the far left crowd even debates that.

Let me ask you a question...feel free to answer it or not McBear...call it a hunch...you are/were an NEA etc Union Member ....teacher, city worker or some version there of?

As far as your school girl gossip quip goes....You are seriously trying to say that the left and the White House have no desire to curb gun rights or ownership?

I've seen too many of your posts to think you are obtuse, you are obviously well read, which is why I can't see your posts in these areas as anything other than obfuscation or as an attempt to dissuade people from legitimate gun owner's concerns. Forgive me if I am wrong, I do want to falsely judge your motives.

I have owned singularly or as a partner a consultancy for systems analysts, architects and systems engineers for the past 30 years. We work with military, government [federal, state and local], and corporate. Our business has included everything from BRAC for the Air Force to design of CNN's digital newsroom for client IBM to hardware rationalization analysis for electrical manufacturer Groupe Schneider/Square D to systems work for advertising agencies.

I was required, on one job to join IBEW so that my team could run wire and install mainframe equipment at a site. That has been my entire "union" experience. It lasted six months and cost me about $500 which was well worth it to get the job done on my terms.

Now, regarding gun ownership and the left and the right. I have friends on the left with whom I shoot weekly. Same with friends on the right. We talk about the issues of 2nd Amendment regularly. I think where you and I might differ is that I don't see the issue as an absolute black and white issue, neither James Madison 1789 nor James Brady 2012. There are areas in which 1789 philosophy is impractical in 2012 and there are areas where 1789 philosophy is more in-line than 2012. A while back I mentioned that it was not the folks on the far left or far right that will decide this issue, it is the very large group in the middle that has not got skin in the game nor have they formed a concrete opinion.

When you look at a bell curve, the majority are always in the middle...To many Americans, from both the Democratic and Republican parties, the gun issue does not represent their view, neither as a 2nd Amendment advocate nor as a gun control advocate. That group in the middle just wants to be safe...and safe to them is neither absolute ownership without qualification nor is it absolute gun control. I fall much closer to the right side than the left but look at 21st Century reality when I make my decisions. It is why I see the Fear, Uncertainty and Dread issues more as a determent than as a positive for gun owners. The reactions that sometimes accompany those FUD issues can very easily be misinterpreted by that very large middle group of folks. Much like the over-reaction of folks on the left can leave a similar view from that middle.

I hope that clears up any obfuscation you may have seen. It was not intentional, but I do tend to come at things from a whiteboard perspective rather than one answer, no matter the facts. Old habits...

 

[Sebago Son]

Focus...

It took 100 years to get to the situation we were in just 30 years ago. Then I had to go to the Sheriff's office for "permission" to buy a handgun here in Kentucky. I had to give a DL and sign a book for ammo. CC did not exist. Look how much has changed in just 30 years.

That of which you speak is Local or at very best, on your State level. This conversation centers around the National arena...

 

[McBear]

Mcbear, if you're 57 years old, you were about 13 in 1968.
You may have been too young to understand what was happening, but they didn't make gun ownership easier.

Heller was a 5/4 ruling. Don't tell me that nobody wants to take away guns.

I grew up in Kentucky...everyone had guns. At 13 I could go to the local sporting goods department of the local department store and buy ammo [22] without permission. At 15 I carried a pistol when our scout troop hikes with snakeshot.

So I know it from MY perspective. But you make my point...ownership is getting easier and easier, not harder.

As for Heller...the dissent was limited and in no way showed what a full, differently balanced court might decide [there was even a dissent to the dissent]. Changing the Constitution on the 2nd would be a monstrous task that no politician would want to take on. It has only been done once and that was because the Depression made a new form of tax revenue necessary and liquor was easy pickings.

 

[McBear]

That of which you speak is Local or at very best, on your State level. This conversation centers around the National arena...

Well, they were repealed because they were unconstitutional from a federal perspective.

 

[jlrhiner]

Well, I'm going to tell you that there is more out there than just the gun issue. I too try to look at all points and who will be the best person for the job. I've voted republican, I've voted democrat. And have been voting a lot longer than some of you have been around. I spent 30 years as a Union Boilermaker and am damn proud of it.

Be careful in your self righteousness, in the end, all it does is marginalize you.

 

[StatesRightist]

I have owned singularly or as a partner a consultancy for systems analysts, architects and systems engineers for the past 30 years. We work with military, government [federal, state and local], and corporate. Our business has included everything from BRAC for the Air Force to design of CNN's digital newsroom for client IBM to hardware rationalization analysis for electrical manufacturer Groupe Schneider/Square D to systems work for advertising agencies.

I was required, on one job to join IBEW so that my team could run wire and install mainframe equipment at a site. That has been my entire "union" experience. It lasted six months and cost me about $500 which was well worth it to get the job done on my terms.

Now, regarding gun ownership and the left and the right. I have friends on the left with whom I shoot weekly. Same with friends on the right. We talk about the issues of 2nd Amendment regularly. I think where you and I might differ is that I don't see the issue as an absolute black and white issue, neither James Madison 1789 nor James Brady 2012. There are areas in which 1789 philosophy is impractical in 2012 and there are areas where 1789 philosophy is more in-line than 2012. A while back I mentioned that it was not the folks on the far left or far right that will decide this issue, it is the very large group in the middle that has not got skin in the game nor have they formed a concrete opinion.

When you look at a bell curve, the majority are always in the middle...To many Americans, from both the Democratic and Republican parties, the gun issue does not represent their view, neither as a 2nd Amendment advocate nor as a gun control advocate. That group in the middle just wants to be safe...and safe to them is neither absolute ownership without qualification nor is it absolute gun control. I fall much closer to the right side than the left but look at 21st Century reality when I make my decisions. It is why I see the Fear, Uncertainty and Dread issues more as a determent than as a positive for gun owners. The reactions that sometimes accompany those FUD issues can very easily be misinterpreted by that very large middle group of folks. Much like the over-reaction of folks on the left can leave a similar view from that middle.

I hope that clears up any obfuscation you may have seen. It was not intentional, but I do tend to come at things from a whiteboard perspective rather than one answer, no matter the facts. Old habits...

Fair enough, I hope you have a good night. I'm sure we may differ in opinion on these types of issues in the future, but I appreciate a well thought out, intentional point of view.

 

[Sebago Son]

Reverse Logic....

Well, they were repealed because they were unconstitutional from a federal perspective.

Still, that does not signal any improvement on the Federal level.