Firearms Modifications?

[WR Moore]

OK, if you AS A LICENSED BUSINESS, install a new barrel and no manufacturers name is on it, are supposed to stamp your business name on said barrel. Don't recall if caliber is required, at various times, armies of the world seem to have omitted that. Probably a good idea-see next paragraph.

However, in order to avoid hassles with regulatory agencies, some firms choose to err on the side of caution and go above and beyond actual legal requirements.

Again, if it's a DIY project on your own item, you do NOT-or at least didn't-need an FFL. In point of fact it used to be legal for you to build a gun for your own use from scratch without a license-assuming your state doesn't have laws affecting acquisition etc. However, should you ever decide to sell said gun, you now have a major problem as you didn't have a license to manufacture firearms.

The gunsmith shop at Colonial Williamsburg got into a hassle with the Feds over their manufacture and sale of flintlock rifles done as part of the living history exhibit. They didn't have a manufacturers FFL. It was finally worked out in some manner.

 

[BigBill]

One must know his limitations.

 

[rosewood]

The gunsmith shop at Colonial Williamsburg got into a hassle with the BATFE over their manufacture and sale of flintlock rifles done as part of the living history exhibit. They didn't have a manufacturers FFL. It was finally worked out in some manner.

This is interesting. Flintlock and any muzzle loading rifles or pistols are not considered a "firearm" by the BATFE definition. You can purchase them without a FFL, over the internet even. Why would you need a FFL to build a device that isn't a Firearm?

Rosewood

 

[Narragansett]

Okay, now we have a disagreement. I can build an AK in my garage without consequence. Or a license. As long as I am in compliance with the law the ATF specifically says I can do this for my own use.

The same goes for doing modifications on personal firearms. I can cut a barrel on a shotgun without consequence or a license as long as I maintain a minimum 18” overall length. Or shorten a stock. Or add a choke tube, if I am able. Or anything else lawful that I want to do to my firearm. No permitting licensing, stamping, ID’ing, or anything else is required. I can even build a complete gun for myself from scratch (rods and blanks, shaped into a gun) if I am so equipped and have the knowledge.

Modification of a firearm for own use vs having a company do it are indeed vastly different things in the eyes of the government. That company you hired in 1978 did your modifications as part of a going business concern. They were engaged in a commercial transaction with you as part of a formalized business. That in itself is incredibly different from someone on this forum modifying their own firearm for their own use and posting their results here. Unless the modifications you make are illegal somehow, or someone thinks you may be making a profit from (lots of) others, or it’s seen as a primary source of income for the home hobbyist, the federal government DOES NOT CARE what you do to your own firearms. Joe Schmoe isn’t doing it to make money or as part of a formalized business. That’s what FFL licenses are generally geared to. State laws may vary, but the federal position on this is very clear.

Hey, i just simply asked a question, from what i once thought was the case. I do believe however, that in the case of your shotgun, you have to maintain a certain overall length or you turn a long gun into a handgun class. That I do believe is a problem

 

[rosewood]

On the note of making your own firearm. 80% receivers are readily available with jig and plans to build your own firearm. So far, I have not heard of anyone being arrested or charged with building a firearm for themselves without an FFL. If the law required it, why hasn't the BATFE made a big deal about these 80% receivers thus far? Granted, non-enforcement doesn't guarantee no laws are being broken.

Rosewood

 

[steelslaver]

The rulings on the 80% receivers has been that you can finish one for yourself, but, not for anyone else. But, recently there BATF dropped a case in Cali on a guy who was assisting in finishing them for others. Guy's lawyer pointed out in court that a AR lower does not in anyway fit the description of a receiver by the BATF's own regulations. It does not mount either a barrel or anything to enclose any ammo. Case was dropped to avoid setting legal presidence.

I work on my own guns all the time. Rebarrel, re-chamber, add sights, whatever. Also rechambering a cylinder would not be working on a firearm. It is simply a part. Nothing but a pencil holder until mounted in a frame.

On barrel length. Yo can take a rifle barrel down to 16"+, a shotgun barrel down to 18"+ and you can install up to a 16"- barrel on a handgun. You caan make a handgun into rifle, but you can not make a rifle into a handgun (unless it was originally a handgun, if it was originally a handgun it can go back and forth)

 

[2152hq]

This is interesting. Flintlock and any muzzle loading rifles or pistols are not considered a "firearm" by the BATFE definition. You can purchase them without a FFL, over the internet even. Why would you need a FFL to build a device that isn't a Firearm?

Rosewood

This is because of Excise Tax (IRS) and IRS's definition of a 'firearm'.
Don't confuse it with the BATF and their definition of a 'Firearm'
The two are different.

Some years back another well known builder of Muzzle Loading rifles, John Bivins got himself entangled in the same dispute with the IRS over Excise Tax on the 1975/76 Pennsylvania BiCentenniel Commision LongRifles he built.
He did not collect nor pay the Fed Excise TAx on a completed firearm either..his point was that his Muzzle loaders were replicas of orig flint lock longrifles and there fore 'Antique Status' under BATF and GCA68 regs.
....which they were.
But...the IRS who runs and rules the Fed Excise Tax division said that they did NOT accept the BATF deffinition of an Antique Firearm.
ANY firearm that was built regardless of design, ignition style, ect was subject to excise tax.
IRS sued Bivins for past due Tax. Bivins fought it in court for a couple years or more,,,and lost.
You can read the whole story by google searching for it.

If anything good came of it all it was the re-vamping of that Excise Tax law regarding small gun makers/gunsmiths. The law now allows for those 'Gun Makers' (Manufacturers as they are now called by BATF law) to mfg up to 50 firearms in a calendar year and NOT have to collect/pay FETax on them
Make 51,,and you owe the tax on #51 and also #1 thru 50.

It also redefined 'Manufacture of a firearm" or sort of did.

For a 'Gunsmith' which used to simply operate with a 01FFL. Now anything that changes the firearm from it's original configuration (stock, caliber, engraving, plating, ect) is considered 'Manufacturing a Firearm'.
If the gunsmith is doing the work on a customers gun,,then the Excise Tax is collected from the customer and passed on to the Fed Gov't
(You pay FETax in Quarterly Payments just like Est Income Tax.)
If the Gunsmith does the work on a gun the he/she buys on speculation (for themselves),,then turns around and sells it. Then the Gunsmith owes the FET on the full value.

This led to Many Gunsmiths operating for years under an 01FFL (Dealer/Gunsmith Lic) to be told by the BATF that they now needed to have an 07FFL (Manufacturers Lic).
Easy enough to get, just check off the right box on the renewal or orig appl.

Same ''under 50 units built/no FETax need be collected/paid'
But now you are a manufacturer of firearms, not just a Gunsmith who replaces the worn ejector on a Model 12 pump.

In all cases, keep those books up to date and dazzle them with paperwork.

As far as building a firearm for yourself or working on one (assuming you are NOT and 01FFL or an 07FFL),,just Joe Cit'zen who likes to tinker,,
Unless there are some State or Local laws that say No you can't..or your Apt Lease says 'No rust bluing in the storage area',, then you can whittle away all you want on YOUR guns.

When you start working on other peoples guns,,or you have the start of a Business (getting paid),,,you need an FFL.

If you SELL any of those home built firearms you've made for your self,,you are in need of an 07FFL.
Those homebuilts/ will need your FFL Business name on the frame, the caliber, a Mfg'rs (you) ser# (must meet BATF specs for size/depth and letter/# sequence).
Put it in the book, book it out when sold. Collect FETax and pay it to Unc'aSam if you make more than 50 this yr.

 

[WR Moore]

Now I understand the fuss over Colonial Williamsburg. Either didn't recall details or the long ago article didn't give them. Given the price tag that used to attach to a manufacturers license, I no longer regret closing my business lo, many years ago.

Looking at that description above on the byzantine regulations that the government puts forth,......ah, I'm about to get in trouble. I'll quit now

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I have seen a lot of home made gun modifications which should be agin the law.
Many on Smiths.
I have posted the tale of the K Frame Sideplate on the 686.

 

[Justin T]

Hey, i just simply asked a question, from what i once thought was the case. I do believe however, that in the case of your shotgun, you have to maintain a certain overall length or you turn a long gun into a handgun class. That I do believe is a problem

In principle, you are correct here (it would be a short barreled shotgun or “Any Other weapon”, not a handgun). As noted in my post, barrel length of 18” or greater must be maintained, and an overall length (including the rest of the gun) must be maintained also.

As stated many times, care must be taken to ensure one’s finished product complies with the law.

 

[chiefbob81]

Now I have a freaking headache, thanks fellas!

 

[rosewood]

Now I have a freaking headache, thanks fellas![/QUOTE
Call and complain to your congressman. It's their fault

 

[Doc1500]

All of this is one of the reasons why I bought an AR-15 pistol with an sba 3 brace. I can legally shoulder it if I want to. Put a longer barrel and make a rifle out of it, or switch it back and make it a pistol again with a 10 inch barrel.
Yes I know it's all interpretation.