First model Schofield extraction issue

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Today. Measured distance from teeth (in star of extractor) to end of ejector rod & I come up with 2.677 in. From front of cylinder to end of extractor rod is 1 inch. From front of cylinder (excluding the collar on the front) I get 1.145 or 1 1/8th inch. Ordered a replacement extractor from Popperts. Other than that, no progress.

My measurements are close but not the same. Now, my cylinder
assembly measures 1.632" from the ratchet teeth to the end of
the extractor. If I measure from the pin in the center of the
ratchet to the other end, I get 2.688"


Cheers!
Webb

 

[Old Dave]

I'm reflecting on how that spring looked. Came out in pieces, indicating HARD use. The shaft on the extractor scarred up as well. I see today I have a tracking number on the replacement extractor. All I intend to do in the meantime, is gently polish the inside of the cylinder with Wenol on a mop, staying away from that key that guides the extractor. Murph's advice tells me how sensitive these things are. Small wonder, the Army's decision to sell & keep buying the Colt by the thousands.

 

[gunbarrel]

But they continued to issue them sporadically for a long time...

 

[BMur]

Hard use

I don’t know.
It seems to me that during the Indian wars the side arms saw very hard use. It took many ejections and many rounds fired to rub that spring flat and break it.

Colts would break a lot too. Lots of replacement parts were ordered for the SAA as well. Clearly documented in the Military parts ordered records.

I have an early US Colt SAA that has very old deep knife and likely tomahawk impact scars all over it with all the correct inspection marks etc. The Indian wars were very poorly documented.

There were a lot of battles and skirmishes that were not even documented.

Especially after the Custer disaster. Absolutely brutal after that.

Often these old war relics tell the tale very clearly of how brutal that war was. In my opinion gunsmith restoration is erasing history. Leave them sloppy and worn.

Murph

 

[Old Dave]

Kudos to Murph

Love your grasp/knowledge of the history of these. Question. Upon reviewing the Schofield section in the "Catalogue", I see how many & when went to militia units. The "when" would indicate to me that this would have occurred during the production of the second model, leading me to have the opinion that all if not most of the first models would have been issued to Army units, seeing their service in the Indian conflicts, Geronimo, etc. Logical? Wishful thinking? Perhaps like you, I have a large amount of admiration for the pieces of that period that have seen hard use. For instance, I have a 7 1/2-inch Colt SAA that letters to Hartley & Graham (who obviously had it nickeled), in Oct of '76. Four months after Little Big Horn. Two months after Wild Bill's demise. Functionally, it's excellent but that nickel finish has had a rough life. Seen many campfires or roundups or carried by a Crow scout? My treasure is an 1839 Paterson carbine retrieved from in a wall in the San Antonio area. It was gunsmith converted into a 6 lb. handgun with a 12-inch barrel. Serial #55. At some point, someone needed a hammer, removed the barrel & proceeded to beat something with the lug portion of the barrel. History? Who knows but it sure is ugly & I love it. Represents a very violent period in Texas.

 

[BMur]

History

I agree Dave,

It’s a common denominator shared by collectors.
A passion and sincere interest in the history involving antique firearms.
I think we are currently trying very hard to keep folks interested and keep the passion alive.
We might be on the Titanic though.

Murph

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


The extractor spring on mine also shows some wear and flatten-
ing on the exterior of the coils.

The breakage problem can be from problems with the manufac-
ture of the spring and the steel it was made from and not nec-
essarily from hard use. Back then, what was going on inside the
steel on a molecularity level wasn't known. They understood the
relationship of heating and quenching steel to impart certain
properties. Generally, tool steel would be heated to the critical
temp and quenched and then tempered but the time it spent
at the critical temp can damage the crystalline structure and
the distribution of carbon. The crystals formed when quenching
will be large and prone to breakage when stressed or shocked.

Also, Iron and Steel foundries of the time in America weren't
consistently producing high quality steels with good homo-
genious distribution of elements and the absents of impurities
in it. Remington bought the steel for their barrels from Sheffield
England (considered one of the best steels at the time).

It would be interesting to know what suppliers S&W used and
the foundry the iron and steel they used came from.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[Old Dave]

AHH! The science of metallurgy.

A few years ago, I traded for a Paterson 1839 revolving shotgun Florida "barn find". Probably a Seminole War connection. Through my examination, I found hairline cracks between a couple of the nipples. Then I learned that it was easy to overcharge that 3-inch-long chamber. Of the approximately 225 made (mine is #168), the survival rate was dismal as some users when these blew up, became amputees of their supporting hand which of course was directly under the cylinder. The user may also experience a chain fire from one chamber to the next caused by a rupture from one chamber to the next. No consumer product safety commission then! And to think that the average wage earner then, was into one of these for a couple of months pay!

 

[Old Dave]

As to Murph's "Titanic" comment. Before covid & political incorrectness, I was a Civil War re-enactor in what was known locally as the "Brooksville Raid". Sadly, it is no more. Due to my age, I remained in the encampment as the unit Provost Marshal. I had a "period" display for spectators to see as they visited the encampments. That WAS great fun! Now, I try to attend a nearby event called "Wild West Weekend" complete with gunfights, etc. The host has built buildings similar to a western movie set. Myself, being in the Indian encampment, I assist in ambushing the train as it passes through, transporting spectators through the ranch property, providing the passengers with a generous supply of black powder smoke! In our area, I set up my "trading post", which is really a display of guns & memorabilia from "the old west" period. I meet & greet people & their kids who are fascinated by such as a Merwin & Hulbert, 1875 Remington, S&W top-break, Forehand & Wadsworth, Patersons, etc. Never having seen such before. Most having seen nothing but Colts in western TV re-runs. I get a huge kick out of giving a tutorial on each piece, being VERY surprised at the level of interest. I am thanked & that makes it all worthwhile.