First time firing my 360 PD bad experience

[toddimusnimski]

You bought gun and ammo at the same time, and relied on the info available to you from the clerk and what was printed on the ammo box. I sure can't fault you there. Unfortunately it was the perfect storm - lack of knowledge by the clerk and misleading info on the ammo box, plus your own unfamiliarity with Buffalo Bore.

I see the seller as having liability and not S&W, but I hope the factory takes care of you regardless.

74? To shoot that combination of gun and ammo you are a Hard Core 74!!!

Todd

 

[malph]

Send it back to S&W. I'm still surprised the star broke. I've never seen that before.

It can happen if someone is over aggressive about trying to extract stuck cases.

It did it once with a 22mag revolver. Learned something from it.

 

[malph]

I've had a 340 PD for years and carry it loaded with full-house .357 magnum loads. I have only fired maybe 10 full-house loads out of the gun, and they really hurt. All the rest of the shooting is done with .38 Special. One day, while out on the property, I had a coyote come at me, fast and aggressively. I fired one shot at the animal with the full house loads, maybe Winchester (?). Never even felt the recoil.

Did you hit it?

 

[ZephyrR1]

OP, you have had a very unfortunate experience and I hope you have an optimal outcome as you seek a solution.
You have been given some excellent advice in the posts above.

I am on my 74th year and have a 60% VA disability. I also have 360PD and love it as my CCW.

Every firearm has positive and negative attributes and we each need to make the best personal decision on what CCW we select with full knowledge of the positives and negatives.

I shoot my 360PD just enough at the range to maintain some degree of proficiency, and mostly use 38 sp and some mild 357 rounds. A light weight and easy to carry firearm tends to get carried more often, at least in my experience.

Best wishes in sorting through your options for a CCW that works best for you. I hope you get your 360PD repaired and that it stays in your posession.

Thanks for your reply as I'm still reeling from this experience. I'm sure it will all work out , as my wife would say.

 

[ZephyrR1]

Did you hit it?

Think I did, Big fireball, Big Boom, and Big Hurt

 

[Well Armed]

Most people have enough sense and who knows of Buffalo Bore know that it's not all that wise to fire it out of a light weight, non-steel, exotic metal revolver. The fact that it's more than likely to jump crimp is reason enough alone, and that's not BB fault or a design flaw in the ammo. That's simple physics that apply to all ammo.

BB clearly has information on their website for all to see with regards to what type of guns and even what makes and models their ammo isn't designed for. Then there's a plethora of information online that can be found at the top of a finger within seconds.

I've fired plain Jane 357 range ammo out of my Ruger LCR, and had crimp jump. Why anyone would shoot full powered 357 out of an 11 ounce revolver with a titanium cylinder and scandium frame boggles the mind. Other than crimp jump, there's flame cutting to contend with.

I EDC Underwood 158 gr 38 +P Special hardcast in all of my 357 carry revolvers including my LCR. I purposely chose 38 Special +P BB or UW in for my J-frame sized and lightweight 357 revolvers because I know they can handle it.

Everyone makes mistakes. You live and learn. Hopefully the OP's post will help someone else. S&W will probably fix it and the OP will get it back as good as new.

 

[Well Armed]

Buffalo uses mostly Starline brass which is some of the best. There is a smart way to fix a jam from bullet jump but it looks like this was not done. The .357 mag J frame Airlites are the best pocket guns ever. Get the gun fixed and try again with .38+p's. I think if you email Tim Sundles directly (the owner of Buffalo Bore) he will tell you his ammo is NOT overpressure as some have stated here. He is very knowledgeable about his product and will give you only a straight truthful answer.

I do not believe their ammo is over pressure either like many have asserted. Plus, they open themselves up to legal action and lawsuits if it is and they're saying it's not. Also, they are a popular ammo manufacturer with years in the business. If their stuff was over pressure specs, we would regularly hear reports about KABOOMS and other damage from the thousands of people, including some police departments, who use their ammo.



All the internet "experts" who are asserting that all of their ammo isn't with SAAMI specs are spreading misinformation. The facts are most commercial ammo download their ammo well below SAAMI specs whereas BB, UW, and others load towards the top of the specs.

 

[ZephyrR1]

Worst case scenario: S&W does not fix or replace your gun. At least you weren't injured during the failure. God bless.

I understand that you are 74yo and identify as handicapped and don't want the weight of a heavy steel revolver. If you need something small and conceilable I suggest getting a stainless J frame like the 640. It is stronger and while its a little heavier, that extra weight really helps mitigate the recoil (ouch factor). If your condition affects your hand strength then I don't think a light-weight gun is really helping you: it only increases the felt recoil.

I personally like my very light weight M&P 340 because I forget it's in my pocket.... it's that light compared to my steel guns. But BOY does it sting my arthritic knuckles at the range. I had to try many types of grips to find what works for me. J frames are concealment first, comfort second.

Overall, I like scandium framed guns for their light weight. I own two Scandi J's and one Scandi L frame. But aside from some arthritis, I still have decent health.
ALSO overall, I think titanium cylinders suck. You need to be careful about ammo selection, they're prone to difficult ejection issues, and they're more trouble to clean. I replaced the Ti cylinder on my 386PD (.357 scandium L frame) with a SS cylinder and it's a MUCH better gun, in all regards.

Sorry to get off track....
*I recommend any modern steel J frame for you. .38 or .38+P will stop the bad guy without hurting your hand/wrist too bad.
If you need a light weight revolver my wife has a .22LR J frame (43c) and I'd piss my pants and run the other way if she shot at me! Similar light weight to your PD but very low recoil

 

[Well Armed]

It can happen if someone is over aggressive about trying to extract stuck cases.

It did it once with a 22mag revolver. Learned something from it.

Yes, I believe the bullet jump crimp, and the RO's damaged the revolver trying to get the cylinder open.

 

[ZephyrR1]

Yes, I believe the bullet jump crimp, and the RO's damaged the revolver trying to get the cylinder open.

Not to mention he told me that cylinder was cracked, he showed it to me and my tired eyes thought I saw it. " Low light indoor range " and the adjacent round cracked,

 

[ZephyrR1]

I think this is a case of the gun store selling something inappropriate to a inexperienced gun owner.

Might be the salesmen at the store didn't know much or it might have been trying to sell some expensive product.

I was looking for a 360 PD not inexperienced at all, this would be my first revolver owned not first time I have fired one. California has 10 day waiting period, so pickup day was different guy and also first time purchasing 357

 

[malph]

I was looking for a 360 PD not inexperienced at all, this would be my first revolver owned not first time I have fired one. California has 10 day waiting period, so pickup day was different guy and also first time purchasing 357

Sorry. Not meaning to insult you but if this is your first revolver owned and first 357 purchased, I'd consider that a little inexperienced with revolvers and 357.

You are more experienced now after this incident.

I hope Smith takes care of you.

 

[ZephyrR1]

Sorry. Not meaning to insult you but if this is your first revolver owned and first 357 purchased, I'd consider that a little inexperienced with revolvers and 357.

You are more experienced now after this incident.

I hope Smith takes care of you.

All's good yes I'm learning a lot on this forum. Thanks

 

[MP-5]

I absolutely applaud everyone's very supporting responses but no one is putting the responsibility where the responsibility is due. And it need to be said. Most of my posts are of a light-hearted nature, but not today.

malph said:
"Buffalo Bore may not be over pressure but its pushed to the edge. Some say to the edge, others say sometimes a little over.
It's not something I'd consider shooting out of a scandium j frame. That's asking a lot of that little gun."

ZephyrR1 said:
"I wasn't planning on making a habit of it. I thought it could take it."

ZephyrR1 said:
"And it sure split the casing now I'm scared to shoot the thing. Do I send it to Smith Wesson or go after the fool that beat up my gun."

Interesting, is he a fool or is he a nice guy? You wrote in the beginning of the post:

ZephyrR1 said:
"So l got the range manager and asked for help not knowing what's going on, thought maybe a round jumped its crimping and jammed. So he says he'll get someone else guy, comes over and says he'll get someone else's now going on my third person and I'm waiting with a hot pistol still jammed. Third person says he has to take to the back, me waiting what happened. Nice guy comes back and got it open, shows me the case looks good then shows me the adjacent round bullet jumped the case by pretty much."

You asked for help to safely clear the jammed revolver. A jam you caused by using the wrong ammo in the wrong revolver. The "third person" did clear your revolver for you, as you stated you did "not know what was going on." The "third person/nice guy"did so at your request.

People have expressed on this forum why people aren't willing to help others in this day and age. Here is the answer. ZephyrR1 asked for help with his revolver at the range, then wines there is a scratch on it. Ask for help, then bites the hand that is helping him. Then he has the audacity to ask the forum:
"Do I send it to Smith Wesson or go after the fool that beat up my gun."

The only fool in this situation is you ZephyrR1.

Smith & Wesson is not to blame for your broken revolver.
Tim Sundles and Buffalo Bore are not to blame for your broken revolver.
The range you shot in is not to blame for your broken revolver.

Don't bother to contact these entities as many in this post suggested.

You are to blame for your broken revolver.

Taking responsibility for one's actions is not a new concept.

You even try to shift the blame on the "clerk" who supposedly just gave you the Buffalo Bore load without asking for them. I smelled a rat the moment I read it.

ZephyrR1
"When I purchased it I asked for 357 for my pistola, I know buffalo bore quality just thought its okay as 140 grain not less than 120 chalk up to experience. "

Did you read the disclaimer on the box?

Yet later in the post, you admit you had knowledge the loading was hot and you thought the gun "could take it."

You were wrong! The gun could not take it and that ammo wasn't meant for any revolver not of all steel construction.

Someone wrote "I hope Smith and Wesson takes care of you."

I don't.

ZephyrR1 writes:
"Thanks I'll heed your suggestions much needed."

Here is my suggestion:
I suggest you never pick up a handgun again. You have proven though your own words and reckless actions, you are dangerous and a danger to others (at the range) when handling firearms. Your ignorance and disregard for warning labels caused severe damage to your firearm and could have caused harm to others at the range. You have proven to the members of this forum and anyone who reads this post that firearms are not for everyone.

 

[saintarctangent]

Kinda makes me wonder if I should ever consider purchasing a used scandium frame revolver. Seems there is risk in using some commercial ammo and potential damage.

 

[Law-dog]

I'm going to try to to get better pic's of the cylinder today. I am handicapped 74 year-old with two neck surgeries. I purchased my 360 PD self-defense as it was very light and no longer can grip heavier weapons. My handicap leaves me slow to go so it may take a while thanks for your response

I have severe spinal issues as well, fusion in the neck pending asap. And I have SLAC in both wrists, which means the bones in both are crumbled and cannot be repaired. Just about everything "hurts". That said, I have 44s, 10mm, 45 Ruger only loads, and so on. I shoot them in limited supply and use lighter reloads for plinking and training.

I am sure the 11-12 ounce gun is more than my wrist will allow and I can do worse damage if I push it. I have a model 60 three inch, love the little gun, adjustable sights and only 24 ounces. Snakeshot in summer for the first 2 rounds then 38 Plus P or 357 loads depending on where I go that day. I also have the model 637, with laser grips, but it is 38 Special only.

For practice, I sometimes load 38 Short Colt, cool little rounds and grandkids can shoot them. Here is a pic of my gun with 38 Short Colt ammo and Federal 180 grain factory ammo. A second picture is the Ergo grip. Ugly for sure, but they do work. I gave it a try just for grins, they are cheap, $20 or so. Just a suggestion, they might help on your tiny gun.

Good luck on your repair issue. I do agree that BB is not likely to accept any fault in this issue, they do extensive testing, us proprietary powders, and serve a niche with their hottest ammo. I am one who suggests, buy 2 boxes, shoot 10 rounds for familiarization and then a few rounds each year just to remember how they work, not much rapid fire with those. Then carry them or like I do, maybe have the last 2 in the cylinder as the really hot rounds. In my case, snake shot may be my worry, but a wild hog or cougar is possible where I go. I have had both within 40 feet.

Because it is a carry gun, I have considered Crimson Trace grip operated lasers on other SW wheel guns, they solve all of the aiming problems as the laser comes on when I grip the gun, but they are small and the back of the grip impacts the hand. Pretty harsh with full 357 loads. So, I have not yet put the CT grips on this one.

I like the factory grips, I carried a model 640 for many years with the same grips, but I will leave these Ergo grips on for a while and then decide. Like you, I like full power loads. Why carry a 357 and not take advantage of that power. At least on certain travels.

 

[yogi]

bought a brand new 586 in 1985. couldn't go more than 1 or 2 shots before the gun would seize up. total pos. sold it at a loss and bought a w german p226.

 

[Furrball]

Kinda makes me wonder if I should ever consider purchasing a used scandium frame revolver. Seems there is risk in using some commercial ammo and potential damage.

Educate yourself. The information is out there. Its not hard.
I did before I bought my 340PD.
There are extremely clear instructions on the types of ammo to be used.
Flame cutting, jumping crimp are addressed.

Frankly this is why we have don't drink the gasoline stickers on gas pumps.
70 something year old guy walks into gunstore, in California to buy first revolver.
Guy sells him exotic lightweight 11 ounce revolver and the hottest avaliable Commercial ammunition.
He waits 10 days to take delivery.
16 rounds in on first day shooting It, it blows up or gets beaten on. Joins forum and makes first post.
OK.

 

[Imshootin]

Oops! Not sure how I fat fingered a response here.

 

[DonD]

From what I've read (haven't owned or shot a 360) it's far more obnoxious than any 500 Magnum. I've been shooting 500s routinely since they first came out. Don