Flash Mobs

[Kanewpadle]

Flash Mobs are not necessarily violent nor do they intend to commit any crimes.

But it does happen.

Yesterday in a neighboring city, a flash mob showed up at a gas station/convenience store. I don't want to appear prejudiced so I won't describe these "young men". But they suddenly appeared in their cars, went into the store and took what they wanted.

This city is suburb of Seattle and is known for it's growing gang problem. Whether or not this was gang related is not yet known. And the area of town it happened in is a good neighborhood.

So, such events can happen anywhere.

 

[Flint Ridge]

Trends like this will never turn out good.

Sad, businesses are having hard enough time without having their goods literally walk out the front door. At least no innocent people were hurt.

 

[A10]

That's a shame. Your town? I didn't catch it on the news....

 

[amazingflapjack]

practice...

If this is going on now, it looks like a move toward the coming class war/civil unrest that may be in our future as a nation. Take note.

 

[RightArm]

I'm missing something. I don't hear where its a "flash mob." Just sounds like a mob. I'm not defending anyone, I don't like it either way and I hope arrests are made. If you get a couple, you can probably get them all.

 

[Sebago Son]

Up here the term used is "Swarming". 30 Utes converge on a convenience store simultaneously from 6-7 different cars, they walk in, take what they want, walk out and disappear in the same 6-7 cars in opposite directions. The local PD's rarely have enough assets in the area to manage 6-7 cars and 30 "Utes".

 

[charlie sherrill]

Right now in most jurisdictions this type of crime is probably a misdemeanor as is shoplifting, a similar crime without the mob. The perps know that what they are doing will probably be handled as a misdemeanor IF they are caught and the most they can get is a small fine and probably no jail time. They also know that trying to solve and prosecute 30 to 40 misdemeanors is very time consuming and expensive and probably won't happen, especially in large jurisdictions where much more serious crimes receive most of the attention.

There's two possible solutions that I can think of: (1) Design your store where the clerk is protected behind some type of steels bars, bullet proof glass, etc. and the store can be locked down trapping the perps inside ( I know of a liquor store that does this and it's only been robbed once) until the cops get there or (2) Solution (1) is expensive and might create some undue danger for the clerk so make this type of crime a felony. Considering the amount of terror the employees or any real customers caught in the middle of this go through I would think this type of crime is probably as violent as some robberies, which are already felonies. Some prison time for some of the perps would would definately deter a lot of folks who don't want a felony rap on their record, especially college students who are otherwise trying to make something of their lives. (3) Try this at a Korean store and watch what happens. (don't ask me how I know)

Several restaurants around here have had to hire security or close after midnight because of large crowds coming in at the same time after the bars close and eating and then jump up and run out at the same time without paying the bill. These folks don't tip either. This and the flash mob stuff is another example of society breaking down (not much difference in this and a riot) and it should be dealt with quickly and harshly.

 

[Fishslayer]

Up here the term used is "Swarming". 30 Utes converge on a convenience store simultaneously from 6-7 different cars, they walk in, take what they want, walk out and disappear in the same 6-7 cars in opposite directions. The local PD's rarely have enough assets in the area to manage 6-7 cars and 30 "Utes".

 

[DeadAye]

Seems that anyone caught could be tried as a conspirator in an organized crime. A felony...

I don't get why it's expensive to try these cases. Ya got video - There's ol' Johny and Rufus and his buddies robbing the store --- Case closed.
Where does all the money come in?

 

[nipster]

Seems that anyone caught could be tried as a conspirator in an organized crime. A felony...

I don't get why it's expensive to try these cases. Ya got video - There's ol' Johny and Rufus and his buddies robbing the store --- Case closed.
Where does all the money come in?

Conspiracy really only exists as a crime when you conspire to commit a felony offense.

Conspiracy to commit petty theft (misdemeanor) I kind of doubt would qualify as grounds for the felony conspiracy charge in most states.

I'm sure there is some other law they broke that actually applies that could be tacked on like criminal mischief

 

[SAFireman]

Several years ago, I had a friend who owned a liquor store in a declining neighborhood in North Houston. This was before 'flash mobs' or much of the social media that we have today...

A similar thing began happening to stores in the area. My friend had been robbed successfully once before and he resigned that it would not happen again. One night a large group of teens came in and tried this same type of theft. My friend jumped over the counter and blocked the door. Some of the group became violent....this misdemeanor theft just became robbery....he killed one with his 357 magnum and the rest ran off empty handed. That was the last attempt of that sort of crime at his store.

It is sad to think that the next generation has this sort of mentality. I can only think that it will get worse in the future...it makes me want to move far away from any city of decent size.


....as of a few years ago, my friend has retired from the liquor store business and started an AC & Heating service...he hasn't been robbed since

 

[DeadAye]

Conspiracy really only exists as a crime when you conspire to commit a felony offense.

Conspiracy to commit petty theft (misdemeanor) I kind of doubt would qualify as grounds for the felony conspiracy charge in most states.

I'm sure there is some other law they broke that actually applies that could be tacked on like criminal mischief

So how much stuff has to be stolen before it isn't petty theft anymore?
Seems that since they act as a group the entire lot of stuff taken would be ascribed to any or all of them.

Wishful thinking?
I HATE a thief!

 

[Kanewpadle]

That's a shame. Your town? I didn't catch it on the news....

Kent. Close to Covington. For some reason it was not on the news.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Cities are cutting police services and courts, hence things like this will continue. We also have a pc mentality that makes stealing and robbery low risk. How many times have you heard managers tell their employees, whether in a bank or convenience store, to not resist but give the perps what they want? And if a store employee resists they get fired. Does anyone think such a policy doesn't encourage criminal behavior? Just like "no guns allowed" signs. If I were a criminal I'd feel more secure in a store knowing I'm the only one armed. I'd like to try an experiment. Put a few "Gunnys" behind the counters, armed with .45s, and see if these problems continue.

 

[JcMack]

There is plenty of this type of teenage rambunctiousness happening in Chicago, down the road from me. Most of it has gone unreported from TV coverage. But wait, holy mackeralinski, folks in the "high rent district" in downtown Chicago are being singled out, beat up, robbed, and raped, by evil doers in packs. "Oh my goodness this never happens in this area" and "We must demand more police coverage" is typical response.

 

[old bear]

As for the excellent suggestion of making this type of crime a felony, in both jurisdictions I worked, this would have been considered a “strong arm robbery.” The taking of any item of value by force or the threat of force, which fell into the same category as armed robbery. Would the D.A. really want to take the time to try 20-30 suspects, its’ not likely, but why not charge high and deal from there?

 

[nipster]

So how much stuff has to be stolen before it isn't petty theft anymore?
Seems that since they act as a group the entire lot of stuff taken would be ascribed to any or all of them.

Wishful thinking?
I HATE a thief!

In my state $350.00 (it's per individual I believe), then it becomes grand theft, which is a felony.

 

[nipster]

As for the excellent suggestion of making this type of crime a felony, in both jurisdictions I worked, this would have been considered a “strong arm robbery.” The taking of any item of value by force or the threat of force which fell into the same category as armed robbery. Would the D.A. really want to take the time to try 20-30 suspects, its’ not likely, but why not charge high and deal from there?

My sister is a lawyer who works for the state attorneys office in my county. We talk all the time about things, it's pathetic what the legal system has become. 9 times out of 10, a repeat offender, even if he commits felony grand theft, will be plead down to misdemeanor petty theft, and most of the time released for time served or very minimum time. They are more concerned with getting people through the system and out the door to plead out than going to trial. They never "charge high", because if they do, and lose, the perp walks.

Also, you have the very terrible issue (pathetic actually) of cops not showing up as witnesses (according to her, happens 30% of the time), and the state having to drop the case. In Florida anyway, a summons to LEO's cannot be enforced, and there is no penalty for them not appearing.

 

[Stevens]

Seems to me it would be logical to understand a store clerk, or anyone else, in a closed space and mobbed by 10-15 wild men would be justifiably in fear for his life or at least grave bodily injury.
Steve W

 

[mc5aw]

We had a flash mob thread a while back when there was a rash of them occurring and ending badly. Flash mobs originally were composed of people congregating at a designated place and breaking out into choreographed dance routines. Soon after, the process degenerated into people congregating and looting a particular store, often violently. The past year or so hasn't seen as many flash mob stories being reported on the news, but the trend hasn't vanished. Give people an excuse to act like savages with the promise of free stuff and there will be a healthy turn out. Back int early-mid 1980s in NYC, we called it "wilding" and it was the scourge of the City for quite some time. My rule is to stay alert when I'm out (especially in large stores or malls) then make like a banana and split at the first sign of trouble or suspicious group activity.