I was in Dillards this Saturday afternoon with my two young daughters in the ladies department when I started hearing some loud, crashing sounds. I see racks of clothers getting knocked down and hear a woman screaming "GET HIM, GET HIM", then I see this tall, lanky, black dude running at me with some sacks, knocking down everything in his way! A heavy-set white guy with a neck tie is chasing him as the old women are trying to get out of his way, and I leave my daughters and run over to grab or tackle him. At the last minute I stopped and just started thinking about getting sued by him if he were to say he was injured after I tackled him. I thought the big white guy had him but he ran out of steam right as the shoplifter hit the doors, and then ran across the parking lot. I own a construction company and have had tens of thousands of dollars worth of things stolen from me and most of it wasn't covered by insurance and I would sure want someone to help if I was getting ripped off, so I felt really bad that I didn't try harder to catch the guy. I might be dumb but I wasn't afraid of getting hurt, only of getting sued, but was wondering what are the laws on a bystander helping to stop a crime and what would you guys do in that situation?
Fleeing shoplifter?
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Wheelgunner840
Member
1950: Tackle the guy, the cops come and arrest him, and you get your items free as a thank you from the store manager.
2009: You get sued by the bad guy, and the store (because the bad guy is suing them as well), and you lose both suits costing you a years salary.
JMHO, you did the smart thing. Was it the morally right thing to do? I know that clotheslining the punk would definately have been the right thing to do, but these days you get punished for having morals and acting on them. Too bad really.
2009: You get sued by the bad guy, and the store (because the bad guy is suing them as well), and you lose both suits costing you a years salary.
JMHO, you did the smart thing. Was it the morally right thing to do? I know that clotheslining the punk would definately have been the right thing to do, but these days you get punished for having morals and acting on them. Too bad really.
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S/W - Lifer
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This goes back 35 years ago, maybe more.
A shoplifter in Detrot's J.L. Hudson's Department Store was discovered and made it out the door with a salesman chasing him. The salesman caught up with him and was knifed to death over store property. As I recall, the thief got away and, well, the salesman is still dead. Later the store closed its doors for good and the building was demolished, bringing a close to downtown Detroit's most prestigous store.
In another tale of woe, a citizen claiming to be a shoplifter showed me an expensive wristwatch and diamond rings while I was in my car in a department store parking lot. When he saw my girlfriend he tried to get in my car. That's when he met my Colt Commander and I won that round. Later I discovered the watch and rings were really junk with phoney price tags and the thief was really a con man.
If there is a moral to this story it is that these guys are potentially dangerous and it is not your problem, unless you are a LEO. If the BG is hurting someone or threatens you or yours, things change. By and large, it is the store's problem, not yours.
A shoplifter in Detrot's J.L. Hudson's Department Store was discovered and made it out the door with a salesman chasing him. The salesman caught up with him and was knifed to death over store property. As I recall, the thief got away and, well, the salesman is still dead. Later the store closed its doors for good and the building was demolished, bringing a close to downtown Detroit's most prestigous store.
In another tale of woe, a citizen claiming to be a shoplifter showed me an expensive wristwatch and diamond rings while I was in my car in a department store parking lot. When he saw my girlfriend he tried to get in my car. That's when he met my Colt Commander and I won that round. Later I discovered the watch and rings were really junk with phoney price tags and the thief was really a con man.
If there is a moral to this story it is that these guys are potentially dangerous and it is not your problem, unless you are a LEO. If the BG is hurting someone or threatens you or yours, things change. By and large, it is the store's problem, not yours.
gunlovingirl
Member
I think you did the right thing by not getting involved in a shoplifting incident. It's not worth putting yourself in danger for. Especially when you have a family to think about. A couple years ago a man saw a purse snatcher grab a womans purse here in Nashville. It was outside a store. The man tried to stop the thief and was stabbed to death. As WG-840 said, times have changed. There's too many crazies out there now.
SW CQB 45
Member
when I used to work security jobs for Dill???? we (as uniformed officers) were not allowed to chase shoplifters unless had the permission of a manager. that was company policy.
There was a shooting at Dill???? in Houston (I believe it involved the police) a few years ago. I recall the manager confronting me and himhawing around that I will not shoot anyone inside Dill???? while working for them. I told the manager that if the situation presents itself and I have to use deadly force, I would not hesitate. The manager did not like my answer and I stop working their.
What is the likelyhood of police officers working security at Dill???? and using deadly force.
In little ol Victoria a few years back, a Dill???? employee was killed (shot) as they arrived for work at 10am by her estranged boyfriend.
It can happen anywhere and there are many major dept stores who would prefer to let a shoplifter walk than to face civil lawsuits.
Prior to me leaving Dill????, there was a report of a known shoplifter named by the employees as SASQUATCH. SASQUATCH was 6'05" well over 200lbs, female built like a man who was so aggressive, she would grab items in front of store clerks, place them under her dress between her legs and walk out the store. any officer that had to deal with the huge female was in for a fight.
I was turning the corner working security one day and a very large muscular female walked past me. In fact as she passed me, she said hello officer. I stopped dead in my tracks, turned around and realized I encountered SASQUATCH. Sasquatch stopped, turned around and walked out the door she just walked in.
OK, I am 6'03" 270 and Sasquatch stood taller than me. I bet she thought twice and decided to steal another day. I am glad she left because Sasquatch was definitely nightstick material as they would not have liked me to pepper spray in Dill????
I think you made the right decision too.
There was a shooting at Dill???? in Houston (I believe it involved the police) a few years ago. I recall the manager confronting me and himhawing around that I will not shoot anyone inside Dill???? while working for them. I told the manager that if the situation presents itself and I have to use deadly force, I would not hesitate. The manager did not like my answer and I stop working their.
What is the likelyhood of police officers working security at Dill???? and using deadly force.
In little ol Victoria a few years back, a Dill???? employee was killed (shot) as they arrived for work at 10am by her estranged boyfriend.
It can happen anywhere and there are many major dept stores who would prefer to let a shoplifter walk than to face civil lawsuits.
Prior to me leaving Dill????, there was a report of a known shoplifter named by the employees as SASQUATCH. SASQUATCH was 6'05" well over 200lbs, female built like a man who was so aggressive, she would grab items in front of store clerks, place them under her dress between her legs and walk out the store. any officer that had to deal with the huge female was in for a fight.
I was turning the corner working security one day and a very large muscular female walked past me. In fact as she passed me, she said hello officer. I stopped dead in my tracks, turned around and realized I encountered SASQUATCH. Sasquatch stopped, turned around and walked out the door she just walked in.
OK, I am 6'03" 270 and Sasquatch stood taller than me. I bet she thought twice and decided to steal another day. I am glad she left because Sasquatch was definitely nightstick material as they would not have liked me to pepper spray in Dill????
I think you made the right decision too.
I suppose you are all right.......but back when I was young and dumb and full of invincibility, a buddy and I were hanging out in the tool section at Sears. Apparently a loss prevention specialist about the size of Hulk Hogan had witnessed a shoplifter walk out the store with some unpaid merchandise, followed him out of the store and was escorting him back in when for what ever reason, he decides to choke this guy out.
The shoplifter was medium height with a slight build. Hulk had at least a hundred pounds on the guy and the guy never moved a muscle to resist during the entire episode. When the shoplifter dropped to his knees, turned white and started salivating, my buddy and I verbally intervened to the jeers of the other Sears employees. Hulk showed no signs of backing off so my buddy and I grabbed pipe wrenches and advanced. Hulk's attititude took an abrupt change at that point and he got off the guy.
I guess he was just trying to teach the guy a lesson, but it seemed excessive to us. We hung out until the men in blue showed so there wouldn't be a repeat performance.
The shoplifter was medium height with a slight build. Hulk had at least a hundred pounds on the guy and the guy never moved a muscle to resist during the entire episode. When the shoplifter dropped to his knees, turned white and started salivating, my buddy and I verbally intervened to the jeers of the other Sears employees. Hulk showed no signs of backing off so my buddy and I grabbed pipe wrenches and advanced. Hulk's attititude took an abrupt change at that point and he got off the guy.
I guess he was just trying to teach the guy a lesson, but it seemed excessive to us. We hung out until the men in blue showed so there wouldn't be a repeat performance.
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cowboy117
Member
Smart guy[you].That's what insurance is for.
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Years ago I was in a 711 at about 11 at night, All I wanted was a diet coke for the caffeen. When a 14 or so old skinny kid tried to hold my up with a paper bag, I told him firmly NO, He then demanded $$ from the cashier, The cashier was with me, saying NO, I was ready to pop the kid real good upside the head, He was about 100 lbs, But then I didnt, Thinking he would sue me.
There were 2 others laying on the floor in the back scared,
The cashier finally opened the drawer, And when the kid reached into the drawer with the paper bag hand and no gun, The cashier slammed the drawer closed into his fingers, The kid took off running screaming.
I paid for my Coke and left feeling like I should have taken him down, And maybe gotten sued for knocking out a 14 year old kid.
If I had carried back then, I think I might have drawn on him and held him till the cops came. I knew he didnt have a gun.
I still wonder if I did the right thing to this day.
Peter
There were 2 others laying on the floor in the back scared,
The cashier finally opened the drawer, And when the kid reached into the drawer with the paper bag hand and no gun, The cashier slammed the drawer closed into his fingers, The kid took off running screaming.
I paid for my Coke and left feeling like I should have taken him down, And maybe gotten sued for knocking out a 14 year old kid.
If I had carried back then, I think I might have drawn on him and held him till the cops came. I knew he didnt have a gun.
I still wonder if I did the right thing to this day.
Peter
sipowicz
Member
if you tackled him you would have been a racist.
Lightfoot4
Member
In this day and time, I tink you made the right decision.
You did the right thing. I am sure Dillards is well insured, and I am not going to risk getting killed to help them stop a shot lifter! Rest assured they are not going to hold a parade in your honor and appoint you to the board of directors if you get involved. If there is potential risk to somebody's life, that is a different matter.
user
Member
You have no way to know what you don't know, and there's a lot you'd have had to assumed in order to want to get involved in this one. If you're not actually a witness to whatever acts led to the flight, best not to take sides.
A side-note: it is NEVER appropriate to defend property by the use of deadly force.
A side-note: it is NEVER appropriate to defend property by the use of deadly force.
burk940
US Veteran
If it's the property of a privately owned business, I agree. If it is my personal property, I won't rule any option out.
m1gunner
US Veteran
Snap a pic of the perp with your cellphone. Offer it to the police if they show up.
No need to get shot or knifed over some shirts made in some third world backwater that belong to a chain department store.
No need to get shot or knifed over some shirts made in some third world backwater that belong to a chain department store.
cjcutter1
Member
You made the right move dont lose any sleep over it, could have turned into a major nightmere situation most stores dont want the liability of pursuing thieves a pair of pants isnt worth the hassle or someones life.
Considered a thread in a similar vein but here's a good a spot as anywhere.
Was traveling to the DC area yesterday and was enjoying a cigar along the way when I came upon a vehicle being operated in a very erratic manner. Seriously, the car was meandering along the highway in such a fashion that I believed it to be a hazard to me...and others.
I called "911" and remained on the phone for a bit as I conveyed pertinent info. To make a long story short, a county officer responded ASAP, and I id'd the violator as we proceded down the roadway. The officer attempted a stop and the violator seemed to be non-compliant. I then stopped to offer assistance; said assistance was requested. Violator was placed under arrest. LE personnel on scene asked that I document what I observed and provide personal info. Pursuant to state "requirements," they asked for my name, address, etc. I provided it...w/o any restrictions and indicated I would be available for court/testimony.
MY choices throughout. I consider it my obligation to assist LE whenever needed; in this case it clearly was needed. Moreover, I am never reluctant to ID myself.
My decisions, my choices; decisions/choices easily made.
Be safe.
Was traveling to the DC area yesterday and was enjoying a cigar along the way when I came upon a vehicle being operated in a very erratic manner. Seriously, the car was meandering along the highway in such a fashion that I believed it to be a hazard to me...and others.
I called "911" and remained on the phone for a bit as I conveyed pertinent info. To make a long story short, a county officer responded ASAP, and I id'd the violator as we proceded down the roadway. The officer attempted a stop and the violator seemed to be non-compliant. I then stopped to offer assistance; said assistance was requested. Violator was placed under arrest. LE personnel on scene asked that I document what I observed and provide personal info. Pursuant to state "requirements," they asked for my name, address, etc. I provided it...w/o any restrictions and indicated I would be available for court/testimony.
MY choices throughout. I consider it my obligation to assist LE whenever needed; in this case it clearly was needed. Moreover, I am never reluctant to ID myself.
My decisions, my choices; decisions/choices easily made.
Be safe.
Farmer -
the key words I saw were "two young daughters" nothing takes precedence over their safety.
First move I would have taken would be to get them out of there, a
lot of these thieves work in teams.
Sometimes its hard to think clearly in the heat of the moment, so -
stop
think
prioritize.
the key words I saw were "two young daughters" nothing takes precedence over their safety.
First move I would have taken would be to get them out of there, a
lot of these thieves work in teams.
Sometimes its hard to think clearly in the heat of the moment, so -
stop
think
prioritize.
sparky9
Member
Consider yourself very smart for not getting involved. Stores like Dillard's, Belks's, Sears, etc. build $$ into their yearly budgets for losses just like this.
burk940
US Veteran
Citizen's arrest anybody???
Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
Art. 14.01. [212] [259] [247] OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW.
(a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.
I understand why this is not the preferred way if in a private business with kids. I had a problem 15 years ago with 15-18 year old punks endangering the life of my 6 year old daughter by throwing stuff over a privacy fence. I also had a witness that placed one of them in my driveway when a vehicle was keyed. The city police had me give them a warning that if they came on my property again, I could arrest them for tresspassing. I asked the locals what I could do if they were caught and resisted, and they said "whatever is necessary". I don't know if this was all legal, but it got their attention and I never had another problem with them.
Anybody else have comments about citizen arrests?
Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
Art. 14.01. [212] [259] [247] OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW.
(a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.
I understand why this is not the preferred way if in a private business with kids. I had a problem 15 years ago with 15-18 year old punks endangering the life of my 6 year old daughter by throwing stuff over a privacy fence. I also had a witness that placed one of them in my driveway when a vehicle was keyed. The city police had me give them a warning that if they came on my property again, I could arrest them for tresspassing. I asked the locals what I could do if they were caught and resisted, and they said "whatever is necessary". I don't know if this was all legal, but it got their attention and I never had another problem with them.
Anybody else have comments about citizen arrests?
