FOOD FOR THOUGHT

[BELT_FED]

Me and a friend were settin around talking about guns the other day, and the 15-22 came up.. Now remember this guy is on the outside looking in so no doing his lack of knowledge of the 15-22... He really likes my 15-22 and is planning on getting 1, as I was explaining the prob. with the extractors and ejectors that have went missing.. He brought up a valid point.. He said are we expecting to much from this platform or are we pissed about no spair parts... my first response was heck no ive got 10/22s that have run for many 10,000 of rounds with no prob.. He agreed cause he has shot the piss out of my 10/22s also.. But he had another valid point 10/22s actons are pretty sloppy.. The 10/22 by design reminds me of an ak-47, now before the flaming begins i dont mean its cheap stamped pieces or that the parts look exactly alike.. What i mean is that the reciever and bolt are pieces that have alot of play (slop) which make it run about any ammo relia. just like an ak-47 loose action means less likly to gum up.. Now pair that up with a decent barrel and you have a gun that will run any type of ammo and be semi accu.. Now with that being said, the 15-22 platform is totally different you can tell when you fire it that the bolt is not as sloppy.. Let me ask you this, if this were a 223 ar-15 and you had fired 2500 rds through it in lets say the last 3 years(cause of the cost of ammo) would you be that up set if it broke the extractor on an OOB.. Or would you buy anther 2 dollar part and move on.. is the prob. really that these guns are so unrelia. or is the fact that we cant get the 2 dollar replacement parts the pain in the ***.. the 10/22s are excellent guns and im not downing them at all i have enjoyed mine for years... but are we expecting alot from a platform that was not designed to shoot "dirty" ammo.. Phil has around 12k rds threw his he said.. if it popped the extractor tomorrow he would be pissed that it need to go back to s&w.. but I know people that shoot the ars in comp. and they have boxes of spair parts just for this.. its common...

so the question of the day is are we expecting to much or is it that we really are just pissed that we cant get replacement parts..

Like i said no flaming please just curious what yall thought?

those of you that have had the probs. with the exjectors and extractors that have came up missing would you have been as mad if you could have had a replacement part here the next day.

Thanx and sorry for the long post..

 

[Brett248Vista]

If an OOB happens on an AR.... Not GOOD!

At least on the .22 you will in all likelihood live to shoot another day.. But I don't think this should happen at all.

 

[BELT_FED]

i agree the oobs should not happen but your missing the point if it broke the extractor for any reason.. you would buy another and move on.. i think parts being availible would make people breath abit easier.. than having to send the rifle back

 

[Brett248Vista]

Yes there needs to be parts availability. But there also needs to be some real fixes employed.. When a gas pedal sticks in a car you recall it..

Shells are meant to go off inside the chamber.

Other than that, it's a great platform!

 

[vitamind3]

I think if the gun cost $250-300 we would be asking too much, we'd be asking too much, but at the cost they ARE at, its not too much to expect flawless behavior. I will say, ive got about 1000 rounds through mine and I must say, it seems to have a break-in period. (at least mine did) my last 300 or so rounds have been 100%.

 

[27 Beck]

If it goes bang, there is a chance it could break.

BELT_FED mentions the Ruger 10-22. I think it is the second most sold .22 of all times. There are a huge amount of OE and aftermarket parts for the 10-22. Ejectors, extractors, bolts, barrels, etc. etc.

I do wish S&W would open up the parts counter to owners. Ordering an extra bolt, firing pin, ejector, extractor, etc. would make me feel like I could go shoot and if something breaks, I could have a chance a fix at the range.

Many of the 15-22 owners seem to be first time .22 semi auto owners. Perhaps they expect too much from their purchase. There is nothing wrong with expecting a product to work 24/7/365, but in the real world it seldom happens.

 

[51reva]

Ditto what vitamind3 says. 15-22 owners are not expecting too much from it. I paid good money to a respected manufacturer for a safe, functional rifle. I have learned to expect a few glitches on a new model, but these extractor problems are ridiculous. IMHO SW should be coming across with a proper/reliable fix; NOW. They don't seem to be listening to their many dissatisfied customers.
I am not expecting to much from this little black rifle, I just want it to be safe, reliable, and fun.

 

[Jerry-R]

I agree with the spare parts issue. I have critical spares for all my toys, except the 15-22.

 

[Brett248Vista]

27Beck,

I just got rid of my mid 70's CBC "Nylon66" and my Marlin Model 70. I never used the Model 70 much, but rest assured I had many, many, thousands of rounds through the Nylon66... I fired anything and everything through that rifle and I never had an OOB and never had a broken ejector or extractor or any part at all. That was a rifle that I paid $70.00 for in the 80's and just sold for $110.

I don't expect too much.. I can't understand how Smith&Wesson did not know about these issues, certainly to design a brand new platform they must have shot thousands of rounds through multiple test firearms.

So did they experience these failures and decide "Sell it anyway"?

I LOVE the rifle and I haven't even had a chance to see it shine yet.. It was the rifle I wanted and I didn't mind plunking down my $480 hard earned dollars on it... But I do expect it to perform.. Do I expect it to be flawless? No... FTF doesn't bother me.... FTE is an issue... Rapid Firing + FTE = OOB...

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I'll skip over your buddy's rationalization of 15-22 failure as well as the notion that centerfire OOB is 'common'. I'll just focus on the main question regarding spare parts.


---Available spares would of course be better than not, but that isn't the issue anymore than buying new tires that blow out after a few hundred miles under normal use is acceptable just because you keep a spare in the trunk.---

Bottom line - If the 15-22 platform is not designed to accommodate a wide array of available ammo without a high degree of failure then it isn't designed to meet the needs and expectations of the average consumer to whom it is being sold. Everything else is simply an exercise in rationalizing failure which is silly.

 

[bgdv1]

i have a 10-22 and its been shot ALOT by me and my 2 teenage sons. NEVER a problem with it in the 7-8 yrs ive owned it. now i love my M&P15-22 dont get me wrong and i hope they get it fixed right so no more flying extractors. the OOB is pretty unnerving. if parts become availible i will probably stock up on a few spares.

 

[Skidder]

I guess I've been real lucky. I've fired 400 rounds through mine without a problem. But you can bet if I paid $475.00 for a .22 (which I did) that had certain problems I would rightfully be upset as many are. You shouldn't have to fix or send back a brand new rifle especially a .22 that costs this much. To me S&W seems to have rushed this one out the door especially the compliant ones. To me you can tell that by them having the short magazine on the website then all of a sudden it's not there anymore and out comes this 10 round mag without an assist button and now more complaints. I won't even bring up the many different answers customer service gives me. I think I would have tried to get it right then do the shipping. I love the gun so far it's S&W that doesn't make me to happy.

 

[image]

No offense but i bought my rifle 1 month ago...freshly shipped, my extractor blow off around my 800th round. So i think that 80% of the rifles have already broke or going to break, its a matter of time...and im sure most of you on this forum when you go out to shoot you are worried about the extractor prob. I spent 450+ dollars on a rifle and i expect it to work.

 

[mag318]

Reading this thread I feel like one of the lucky ones, having experienced nothing but flawless functioning thru 2K rounds with my M&P15-22. I like this rifle so much I just bought a 2'nd one, and I have no reason to belive it won't be as troublefree as my 1'st one. This is a rifle that begs to be shot fast and over time is going to have a high round count. If I ever have an extractor pop out I'll just send it back to S&W on their dime. I have 3 friends who bought M&Ps after shooting mine and no one has had any problems yet, so I think this is basically a sound design. It would be interesting to see what the percentage is overall of rifles having problems, I have a feeling it is quite small.

 

[BELT_FED]

Well maybe I'm different than most on here but I bought my 15-22 for what I feel is its intended use... a trainer... I figured after the first 2 bricks I put through it paid for the rifle in 223 ammo that I would of fired threw my ars... maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way but... at the 6000 + flawless rounds I've popped threw it I figure its made me money lol... image I took no offence if I were in your shoes id be upset also... but I think that if you had a few spair parts or the local gun shop had them you would be less upset I know I would

 

[SNAPPYCRY]

Its been said before and i will say it again. Most people go trolling through Forums looking for an answer to a problem they have that needs fixed.

I started trolling this one about 4 months ago after my first trip to the range with every other shot being a FTF.

I got my answer. I was using Remington Bulk HPs.

Since switching to CCI mini mags and Federal 550 bulk, Im 100%.

How many Happy 15-22 owners are out there that have no idea this page exists?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I just got rid of my mid 70's CBC "Nylon66" and my Marlin Model 70. I never used the Model 70 much, but rest assured I had many, many, thousands of rounds through the Nylon66... I fired anything and everything through that rifle and I never had an OOB and never had a broken ejector or extractor or any part at all. That was a rifle that I paid $70.00 for in the 80's and just sold for $110.

I don't expect too much.. I can't understand how Smith&Wesson did not know about these issues, certainly to design a brand new platform they must have shot thousands of rounds through multiple test firearms.

So did they experience these failures and decide "Sell it anyway"?

Well said. I have regularly shot .22s for decades and have had one OOB and no broken parts ever. Never a centerfire OOB.

 

[BELT_FED]

I agree the OOBs need to be fixed... but I've got a 10/22 that I've replaced every part in it including the lower trigger housing it wore to the point it would not work.. and I've had 2 different 10/22s blow the mags out of the bottom of the gun with a OOB.. but parts are easy to come by.. and that makes life much less pissy for me lol

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Well maybe I'm different than most on here

Of course you are different, Brett. You shoot 1800rpm water cooled monsters that glow red and catch on fire. I have seen the videos. So the notion of a .22lr OOB or even a .223 OOB is a yawner to you.

NASCAR drivers catch air and flip 20 feet in the air... but that doesn't make it common other than for those within their small circle. Keep in mind most people ain't in your circle, my friend.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I agree the OOBs need to be fixed... but I've got a 10/22 that I've replaced every part in it including the lower trigger housing it wore to the point it would not work.. and I've had 2 different 10/22s blow the mags out of the bottom of the gun with a OOB.. but parts are easy to come by.. and that makes life much less pissy for me lol

That's cool.... but we're not talking about the 15-22 wearing out after a 100k+ rounds. Folks are feeling lucky if they make it to 1k with all the original parts.