For those of you with a real AR-15…

[cal1]

Ok so I’m working backwards here. I bought a 15-22 on a whim and fell in love with it. After a couple of trips back to the factory it works flawlessly and I shoot the hell out of it. I’ve really started getting interested in a real AR-15.

Why would someone buy a 15-22 when they can just buy a .22 conversion kit for their existing gun? Are these combinations just really expensive or unreliable? I’m wondering if I should sell my gun and go that route. Is it a pain to change from .223 to .22? I do realize the base rifles are pretty pricy but it seems like it might be worth it to be able to shoot that hi priced toy more. Kind of like buying the .22 conversion for glocks. Really works well and makes shooting that gun much more fun.

If cost is not an issue (within reason e.g. less than $1200) what’s the best one to buy?

Thanks in advance

 

[Raider]

I have a DPMS AR15 and bought a .22 conversion kit to go with it. I use the kit a lot and like it. Ciener, the manufacturer, has a pretty poor reputation but the kit I bought works fine. I had to debur and smooth it up but now function is flawless. Maybe we will hear from owners of other manufacturer's kits.

Charlie

 

[shooter7]

The problem with the conversion kits is, most ar-15 rifles have a 1:9 to 1:7 twist rate in the barrel, which is too fast to get the most out of the lighter 22lr rimfire cartridge. The rate of twist in the 15-22 is 1:15. The kits themselves aren't what I would call cheap either. The S&W 15-22 can be had at a reasonable price, if you shop around, and has a barrel twist rate, more in line with 22lr ammo.

 

[crofoot629]

My Ceiner kit woud not run, Brownell's bless their heats took it back.

So I then bought a Spikes upper. Love it, runs like a sewing machine. But then had to have a dedicated lower for it. Now having Noveske build me another 5.56 upper..........it never ends.... two daughters and a wife, I'm still gonna be short a 5.56........

Emory

 

[evnash]

well the 15-22 is lighter. so if you are just plinking or training kids thats a plus. and ive always heard about the reliability issues of a conversion.

plus it sure is fun to have TWO tactical rifles!

 

[Dragon88]

Having a dedicated second rifle for shooting 22 is a better solution IMO. Not that much more expensive, very reliable, no hassle dealing with a finicky conversion kit, etc. Not saying conversion kits aren't good, but I'd rather have a 15-22.

Best bet for your AR? Buy a stripped lower and parts kit and assemble that yourself. Then shop around online, everything else can be bought from stores with no FFL required, including the upper. My advice is to get exactly the rifle you want from the start, don't buy a cheap base rifle then spend more in the long run adding rails and such that you wanted all along anyway.

 

[crashoverrideplik]

I have the CMMG rifle. I have a .22 upper, .223 upper and 9 mm upper for it. I later purchased a M&P 15-22. The only regret I have about the M&P purchase is that it can not be converted to anything but a .22. I was misinformed when I purchased it and thought any upper could go on it. Since then, I have purchased a Chiappa firearms with a .22 upper and a .223. I like the ability to swap back-n-forth. The M&P gets lots of "fun" time at the range since we can shoot it inside, but once it warms up the bigger calibers are going to be getting rocked more than the .22's.

 

[mtime7]

I hear CMMG makes a pretty good conv. kit, but accuracy isn't so good, I beleave it is because barrel diameter and twist rate.. With that being said if you have a good 15-22 stick with it, save up some funds and buy a ar15, their are lots out there new and used at reasonable prices..

 

[crashoverrideplik]

Yeah CMMG makes nice stuff. They are local to me and I really like that. I've not had any accuracy issues. It's more accurate than my M&P using same ammo, scope, etc. I do like that the M&P is lighter, esp when you shoot a few hundred rounds at a time.

 

[Cptslick]

I have read some not so good things about the conversion kits,especially as mentioned before the difference in twists. Personally I will keep my 15-22. I bought a DPMS Sportical 5.56 and paid a little over $600 for it. No problems and I am happy with it.

 

[sean eady]

I agree with majority. I also bought my 15-22 first and then wanted the 5.56/.223. Recently bought the M&P 15psx. I am very happy with having both rifles over a conversion kit.

 

[antifederalist22]

Most .22 conversion kits for "real" AR platforms cost as much or more than your M&P15-22. You could get an AR, but I would keep the M&P15-22--something about having an extra upper never appealed to me and besides, an upper without a lower looks lonely in the safe and eventually you will break down and get another AR lower for it, or maybe I am a little OCD and I have to have a lower for every upper. It's a slippery slope.

 

[Dragon88]

Solo uppers don't stay that way for long, they just sit there begging for you to spend more money and complete the setup. Same thing goes for lowers.

 

[BELT_FED]

Ive got 3 ar-15s and a 15-22 and to be honest id never put a convertion kit in any of them. Im sure you have learned bythis time that rimfire ammo is nasty. My ar-15s stay clean for the most part.. There is nothing worse then trying to get lead build up out of a gas tube. The complete uppers are fine but fot that kind of coin you could just have a 15-22. To each his own but if you bought a dedicated upper it would not be long before you had a lower for it.

 

[Dragon88]

Belt fed, I've never thought about the gas tube in conversions. At the high pressures of 223/5.56 the tube is self-cleaning, but with rimfire they get pretty nasty?

 

[Rustpot]

Up until CMMG's most recent revision you lost bolt hold open function in conversions. If you wanted to not drop the hammer on an empty chamber you had to count your shots, or rely on a magazine follower to block the bolt. With the tall followers you still have to manually lock the bolt back or pull the mag free and manually operate the charging handle.

I'm not familiar enough with Spike's upper to know if they had a solution to this, but it was my understanding that the M&P 15-22 was the only one that had it.

If the 15-22 was built on a normal milspec lower, or had a full size ejection port with forward assist and dust cover, I would bet a TON more people would have bought one without calling it a plastic toy.

Just like SigSauer offers .22LR versions of their 3 main pistols for around $500, with a centerfire conversion for $3-400 more. It makes getting a dual caliber pistol for just $100 over just the centerfire pistol. S&W could have sold the 15-22 for $100 more, and new uppers make the cost of the .22 upper almost nothing in the long run. Then charge $250 for the 15-22 upper to undercut a large portion of the conversion bolt market.

The cost figures probably didn't let them, or they really wanted a standalone rifle. Oh well, we can still dream.

 

[WARMAKER]

i have a bushmaster and a 15-22. i had the bushmaster first and the ammo prices was killing me. i never thought about changing the bushmaster to 22LR because i like the option of taking both to the range and firing a few hundred 22 rounds and then pulling out my AR for a few mags of 223 without changing any parts.

 

[benzy2]

I had one of the JAC conversions. It was a nightmare. I couldn't get through one of the 10 round mags or through one of the BDM mags without a handful of failures. No matter what the trick was out there, it didn't work on my conversion. I gave up on them after that. I'm sure some work well, but I would rather spend money on something more reliable.

I have a couple problems with a dedicated upper. First, a dedicated upper costs the same as a complete 15-22. So I can have an upper or a complete rifle for the same money. Which would I pick? 15-22. the dedicated uppers run on basically the same conversion kit that you would use on a .223 rifle. It is modified, but the bolt assembly and magazines used were the same. The only real difference was that the chamber was milled as a part of the barrel, rather than an insert into the barrel. From all accounts I had heard, reliability with a dedicated upper was just about as hit or miss as it was with a conversion bolt kit. Again, not a fight I want to be a part of, especially for $400+ before the cost of a lower.

If the drop in conversion kits worked well I could understand their use. You get the same weight/balance of the .223 rifle, with the same controls (minus the bolt catch), with the same trigger, gripping the same front handguard, ect. It's cheap practice on the rifle you'll use for .223 use. But, toss on a dedicated upper, with a different barrel profile and different handguard setup and now things are, well, different. At this point, you now have two very unique experiences. I would rather spend $400 on a base 15-22 and have the peace of mind that if something is wrong I can have S&W fix it rather than the nightmares I have of that old JAC kit and the total lack of customer service that came with it.

For me, I'm done with conversion kits. Most good conversions (not just for the AR but for most firearms) end up costing as much as a quality complete firearm of the same nature would cost. I've looked a few times at getting a conversion kit for my 1911. Then, I sit back and think I could buy a Ruger MkIII or a Browning Buckmark for the same money. For me, I'll take two guns designed from the ground up rather than 1.5 guns of which 0.5 of that was designed as a side note after the fact.

 

[cal1]

THANKS ALL!!! As usual outstanding, well thought out and detailed replies. Part of the issue is safe landscape (you can only fit so much in any saffe) and the other is accuracy. I love the feel of my 12-22. I also didn't want to have to lug any more guns than I needed to when I go shooting. I know it's dumb but I have a hard time picking just one or two. (I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging) If I bring the 45, I usually regret not bringing the 9. I always bring my MKII.

Never realized there were that many issues with the conversion kits. I've got to admit that all of those "Black Gun" and AR-15 magazines look so good. I think I'll go with the consensus and stick with separate guns. Now to the question of which AR-15... Damn those things are expensive. I saw somewhere that they described them as "Barbie dolls" for men. Definitely lots of $ poured into ownership.

 

[doc3118]

I was this close to asking a really noviced question about converting the 15-22 into the .223,,,,glad i read the post first,,if you guys really want to pee your britches I will post my question,,but im gonna have to start carrying some sort of pink weapon to match my panties......