For those on the fence about joining NRA

[bigfruits]

I've actually thought of amending the rules to prohibit NRA bashing/whining/moaning.
I may do that yet.
If the inability to whine about or bash the NRA makes this board untenable for you, allow me to bid you Godspeed on your journey to a happier internet abode.

so the 1A means nothing here? i guess that if you regulate what people can talk about, all of the discussions will eventually reflect your point of view.

 

[ladder13]

so the 1A means nothing here?

Correct, this is a privately owned forum, governed by the rules the owner sets forth.

 

[handejector]

so the 1A means nothing here? i guess that if you regulate what people can talk about, all of the discussions will eventually reflect your point of view.

At the bottom of most pages, you can find a link to the
Terms of Service

There is a clause in there about it-

FREEDOM of SPEECH
We hear a lot about "MY Freedom of Speech can't be restricted!!!"
Save it.
This board is privately owned property that is made available for free public use within our Rules, Terms of Service (TOS), and guidelines.
Everyone who registers here has agreed to be bound by all of those.
That means we have the right to forbid, limit, or restrict certain topics, crude language as defined by us, and types of behavior.
You have the right not to post here if you disagree with those Rules, TOS, or guidelines.
You have the right to be somewhere else.

If you look at the main menu, you'll see this section at the TOP-

Rules & Information
It is YOUR responsibility to READ EVERYTHING posted here

In that section, I expand a little on the topic in-
A Note on Freedom of Speech


which says:

We hear a lot about "MY Freedom of Speech can't be restricted!!!"

Some people seem to be unaware that Freedom of Speech is limited in many ways, every day.
If you are not aware of that, you can test it by walking into any courtroom tomorrow when court is in session and start giving a speech. Ignore the silly judge telling you to be quiet.
Try giving a speech from the balcony in the Senate chamber of your State capital while they are in session. Tell the Security types that you have Freedom of Speech.
Ask the local school Principals if you can address the students about the virtues and pleasures of gun ownership and the need to support the 2nd Amendment.
Those buildings are owned by ‘the people’, aren’t they?
So, how can they limit your Freedom of Speech?

You can also try it on private property.
Jump onto a table in a restaurant and speak or preach away.
Enter a private clinic and tell them you’ll be speaking all day about your views on morality and religion.
Ask local churches if they plan on giving equal time to speakers for a totally different religion, or worshipers of Satan, or Wicca.

Since you believe in Freedom of Speech, do you adhere to the principle in your own home?
Do you allow anyone who rings your doorbell in to speak about political parties or ideologies or religions different from your own beliefs?
If not, are you violating THEIR freedom of speech?

You may be getting it by now-
This board is privately owned property that is made available for free public use within our Rules, Terms of Service (TOS), and guidelines.
Everyone who registers here has agreed to be bound by all of those.
That means we have the right to forbid, limit, or restrict certain topics, crude language as defined by us, and types of behavior.

You have the right not to post here if you disagree with those Rules, TOS, or guidelines.
You have the right to be somewhere else.
We have no desire to limit your freedom of speech otherwise.
Pick any street corner and have at it.
Rent a billboard.
Start your own forum.
Rent radio time.

 

[bigfruits]

so you can forbid, limit, or restrict certain topics. obviously youre not going to do that to the topic of NRA but if someone's opinion of a allowed topic is not the same as yours you prohibit that opinion and not the topic. understood.

respectfully yours,
-z

 

[Waywatcher]

That's all- support the NRA to protect the 2A.
Vote any way you want to.

I think I'm not getting my point across. I'll try to sum up my position as succinctly as possible:

--I, personally, can't support an organization that endorses Republicans 99% of the time.*
--Joining this organization would entail sending it money; money = support.
--An organization that endorses a party 99% of the time will become increasingly irrelevant over time as a partisan force.

I am not with the NRA, and I am not against it. I've never believed the "with us, or against us" oversimplification. Someone, from either side, could paint me with their own brush and project views on to me, which are not true.

*Current NRA 2014 endorsements for US Senate and US House are 99% for Republicans.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Well I just did it... I joined.

Was not easy for me, as I too am distressed that the NRA is so biased in their political support. I am a middle of the road independent, who leans left on some issues & right on others. I find it odd, in that on some of the issues that I lean left on, at least to me, should be conservative values. I believe in conservation of our environment, but why is that a liberal talking point? I believe in big government staying out of our personal lives. I think staying out of people's lives should be a conservative stance. If stances like that label me as a gun-toting Liberal, well I guess I can live with that.

But I agree that the NRA is the best tool to help me keep my guns, so I agree they need my support. There are things the NRA has done that disappoint me, besides their political leaning, but what other choice do I have? I don't believe in sitting on the sidelines & letting others fight for me. Since they are the only real fighter in the ring... I joined.

Thanks guys for this discussion. And Lee, thanks for allowing us to play in your sandbox.

 

[Biginge]

Great to have you Redneck Jim. We honestly value each member on his merit . Not unlike those guys did at The Alamo not long ago. Thanks for joining up. Boot camp ain't bad at all.

 

[handejector]

so you can forbid, limit, or restrict certain topics. obviously youre not going to do that to the topic of NRA but if someone's opinion of a allowed topic is not the same as yours you prohibit that opinion and not the topic. understood.

respectfully yours,
-z

I think you got it!
Well done.
I'm not going to provide a platform for bashing, denigrating, or detracting from promotion of the NRA while I'm actively promoting it.
I really doubt many of your favorite orgs or candidates promote opposing views on their websites.

That's all- support the NRA to protect the 2A.
Vote any way you want to.

I think I'm not getting my point across. I'll try to sum up my position as succinctly as possible:

--I, personally, can't support an organization that endorses Republicans 99% of the time.*
--Joining this organization would entail sending it money; money = support.
--An organization that endorses a party 99% of the time will become increasingly irrelevant over time as a partisan force.

I am not with the NRA, and I am not against it. I've never believed the "with us, or against us" oversimplification. Someone, from either side, could paint me with their own brush and project views on to me, which are not true.

*Current NRA 2014 endorsements for US Senate and US House are 99% for Republicans.

Oh, I get your point.
You're an idealist that can only participate when you agree 100% with a group operating in a perfect world.
You'll find your actions on this planet very limited, and you will have very little effect as you go through life.

Please tell us-
Do you actually do ANYTHING with any significant value to protect the 2A, or merely leave it to us radical right wingers?
You don't seem to get the point that without the NRA, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Shame on me for using your numbers. I learned my lesson--I just went and checked NRA endorsements for all 50 states. Here's the rundown for the 2014 election:

Democratic Senate candidate endorsements: 0 (0.0%)

The reason you didn't understand what I was illustrating in my first post is because you obviously didn't have a baseline of knowledge to understand what you were reading, and I could have better elaborated. And that's part of the problem today, folks hear or read something but don't have a baseline of knowledge to understand what it is, then jump to assumptions.

Now you read that the NRA is supporting zero democrat senate candidates, and thus stand by your characterization that the NRA is just a mouthpiece for the Republicans. But do you understand what that zero actually represents? Let's take a look at the incumbent democrat senators running in 2014.

Begich Alaska (A-). Pro-gun betrayal voted for both anti-gun SCJ Sotomayor and Kagen. NRA chose not to endorse either Begich or republican challenger (Aq).

Pryor Arkansas (B-) Rep challenger (A)

Udall Colorado (D) Rep challenger (A)

Coons Delaware (F) Rep challenger (Aq) No endorsement

Schatz Hawaii (F) Rep challenger (Aq) No endorsement

Durbin Illinois (F) Rep challenger (A)

Landrieu Louisiana (D) Rep challenger (A+)

Markey Massachusetts (F) Rep challenger (?) No endorsement

Franken Minnesota (F) Rep challenger (Aq)

Shawnee New Hampshire (F) Rep challenger (?) No endorsement

Booker New Jersey (F) Rep challenger (Aq) No endorsement

Udall New Mexico (D) Rep challenger (Aq)

Hagan North Carolina (D+) Rep challenger (A+)

Merkley Oregon (D) Rep challenger (Aq)

Reed Rhode Island (F) Rep challenger (Aq) no endorsment

Warner Virginia (C) Rep Challenger (Aq)


[I}Dem incumbent didn't run[/I]

Montana
Dem (F) Rep (A+)
Michigan
Dem (F) Rep (A)
Iowa
Dem (F) Rep (A)
Nebraska
Dem (F) Rep (Aq)

-------------------
I think I got all the dem incumbent related races listed. Hope I didn't mix any up. If I did let me know. About the only one that you might have a case to fuss over is Alaska. Yet the NRA hasn't endorsed anyone there. Didn't endorse 30% of the republicans listed above. Hardly a "mouthpiece", and I think is in line with NRA's posted policy.

I'm not going to go thru 435 House races. But hope that my time I've already invested helps.

 

[Waywatcher]

To clarify:

Now you read that the NRA is supporting zero democrat senate candidates, and thus stand by your characterization that the NRA is just a mouthpiece for the Republicans. But do you understand what that zero actually represents? Let's take a look at the incumbent democrat senators running in 2014.

Let's be clear, I didn't "read" that. I went to the NRA PVF website and looked at every race. Zero endorsements for senate Democrat candidates in 2014.

I'm not going to go thru 435 House races. But hope that my time I've already invested helps.

I did. Once again, at the NRA PVF website. 6 is the number of Democratic endorsements in the House for 2014. That's 1.4 percent.

 

[handejector]

So, how many of those with D and F ratings on gun issues do you think they SHOULD endorse?

Even the B ratings are overshadowed by opponents with an A rating, so their choice is obvious.

My question still stands-

Please tell us-
Do you actually do ANYTHING with any significant value to protect the 2A, or merely leave it to us radical right wingers?
You don't seem to get the point that without the NRA, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Bkreutz]

Looking back at all the posts in this thread, I find it telling that those who have expressed their opinions against the NRA also don't support this forum monetarily. There are always people who reap the benefits of others work but won't contribute to achieving those benefits. (there are also a couple that don't contribute to the forum but are NRA members, but I suspect a budget reason and respect them for supporting the NRA if a choice had to be made between them)

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

To clarify:
Let's be clear, I didn't "read" that. I went to the NRA PVF website and looked at every race. Zero endorsements for senate Democrat candidates in 2014.

Thats good you're reading from the NRA website, but the underlying factors do not support your assertion that the NRA is just a "mouthpiece" for the Republicans. That's the point. Now if there were a bunch of F rated Reps endorsed over A rated Dems in the Senate then I'd agree with you. But that's not the case. The reality is that Dems are overwhelming less supportive of gun rights. That's the measure for the NRA,
not who is more "right wing".

Whether or not you choose to support the NRA isn't something I'll argue. Just offering some information and reasoning for your consideration.

So, how many of those with D and F ratings on gun issues do you think they SHOULD endorse?

Maybe the NRA should endorse Chuck Schumer next time around to prove how fair and balanced they are.

 

[vytoland]

I ENDORSE the NRA. the NRA endorses the 2nd amendment. the second amendment allows US to purchase, own and carry firearms.

the theme of the SMITH & WESSON FORUM is FIREARMS.

if YOU cannot comprehend these things............dig the message in the tune and act accordingly.................

Arthur Alexander - You better move on - YouTube

 

[Biginge]

Boys, I haven't even seen who the NRA has/has not endorsed. I gotta feel for who I'm gonna vote for on several fronts. I MAY look towards the NRA if I'm on the fence on one or two.

But, in my opinion, it kinda boils down to this. I belong to a long standing gun club in my community. We have 300 members. About 35 of us show up and do the actual work of maintaining the club. The other 265 just come out, pay their annual dues, and bitch when something does not go the way they want it to.

Does this parallel the NRA? A few do the work for the masses!!! I will continue to give my annual karma membership to a S&W forum member that does not belong to the NRA. Have for a while now. I hope no one gets there feathers ruffled by my doing so.

Grandfather used to say "If you don't stand for something, you don't stand for nothing." Come on guys, join the NRA and it wouldn't hurt to come off the hip for this forum (only while your in the mood) too.

 

[ladder13]

My gun club/range has some 650 members, all new members are required to have an NRA membership to join, and all members are required to maintain it, with annual proof during renewal.
If people don't like it, they're encouraged to find another club.

 

[Biginge]

My gun club/range has some 650 members, all new members are required to have an NRA membership to join, and all members are required to maintain it, with annual proof during renewal.
If people don't like it, they're encouraged to find another club.

LADDER,

We have the same requirement at my joint. Hmmmm,wouldn't that be cool in other arenas also?

 

[woodsltc]

My gun club/range has some 650 members, all new members are required to have an NRA membership to join, and all members are required to maintain it, with annual proof during renewal.
If people don't like it, they're encouraged to find another club.

Same requirement where I shoot.

It's amazing (and sad) how some folks that claim to be pro-gun and profess to support the 2nd amendment can't understand that the only reason they still have the right to own a firearm is because the NRA has been leading the fight for our collective gun rights for decades....I'm old enough to remember when many of the Democratic politicians were NRA members and supported our gun rights AND the NRA endorsed them. It wasn't the NRA that moved to the Republicans it was the Democrats that moved away from gun rights and support of the 2nd amendment.

If you are not a NRA member and you believe in our right to own firearms then you really need to join and help us pull the weight of protecting our freedom.

If the 2nd amendment falls it won't be long before all of our other cherished freedoms will go also.

Don

 

[CO_Kid]

I'm not going to provide a platform for bashing, denigrating, or detracting from promotion of the NRA while I'm actively promoting it.

Edit: Nevermind, what I was thinking wouldn't have been worth it.

One more point, if all NRA members act like y'all do towards non-member gun owners, even more reason not to join.

 

[CCantu357]

I am a member. I do not agree with them all the time, and hate some of the candidates they back, but they do way more good than harm. They even the playing field against the billionaire-backed antis. That is why I am a member. Plus the dues are reasonable, considering you get a magazine every month-all of which are great reads compared to the newsstand rags.