"Giving Away Your Position"

[Gamecock]

Home defense shotgun should be cocked and locked.

Shotguns have notoriously low magazine capacity. Giving up say 20% of that capacity so you can make some noise doesn't work for me. The click of the safety coming off could scare them just as much.

Racking the slide is a gross motor skill. In deep stress, there is a good chance you will do it wrong.

 

[TAC]

I am assuming that no one here would want to shoot his neighbor who happened to come home drunk, lost his keys, and mistakes your house for his and comes in through a window. Or even shoot some 14 year old who made a really bad decision about how to pick up some easy money and would surrender immediately if confronted.

What makes you assume a drunk neighbor, or a 14 year old boy, is not a treat to your life?

The drunk neighbor, might be thinking you're having an affair with his wife, and intends to kill you. As for 14 year olds. A young age does not make them harmless, or innocent. They kill people almost every day in our country.

Assume nothing, trust no one!

 

[TAC]

I am assuming that no one here would want to shoot his neighbor who happened to come home drunk, lost his keys, and mistakes your house for his and comes in through a window. Or even shoot some 14 year old who made a really bad decision about how to pick up some easy money and would surrender immediately if confronted.

What makes you assume a drunk neighbor, or a 14 year old boy, is not a treat to your life?

The drunk neighbor, might be thinking you're having an affair with his wife, and intends to kill you. As for 14 year olds. A young age does not make them harmless, or innocent. Young people kill others in our country quite often.

Assume nothing, trust no one!

 

[Mister X]

There should be no possibility for an intruder to be scared off by the sound of you racking your weapon since it should already be chambered long before an intruder is ever close enough to hear it.

With the use of quality doors, windows, locks, motion alarms and lights, you can pretty much make your home nearly impossible to enter without you being alerted. I think it ethical and legally prudent to avoid shooting someone if there is anyway around it. You must positively identify the possible threat, so using lighting to some degree is necessary if it's dark and give verbal warnings when appropriate, which is almost always since 911 can hear and is recording the incident. The specific tactics that would be most effective largely depend on the specific scenario, layout of your home as well as time of day the break-in occurs. There is no one size fits all plan.

 

[iPac]

My 12ga is already fully loaded and on safety. No need to rack anything. I would also have a revolver on body too. We have castle doctrine here, so people need to think long and hard before breaking into homes.

I am a firm supporter of a 'watch dog'. I have a 90lb German Shepherd. Nothing gets within 20yds of my house without her knowledge. I don't think anyone would be stupid enough to break in when she is giving her 'ferocious' bark. If they did, she would react, and any aggression towards her gives me cause.

Hopefully, most of us will never have to worry about this.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Hope springs eternal. You can not plan for everything, but you can eliminate a lot of danger by trying to.

 

[Jack Flash]

What makes you assume a drunk neighbor, or a 14 year old boy, is not a treat to your life?

The drunk neighbor, might be thinking you're having an affair with his wife, and intends to kill you. As for 14 year olds. A young age does not make them harmless, or innocent. Young people kill others in our country quite often.

Assume nothing, trust no one!

My point was that no one here would want to shoot someone who wasn't a threat. How to determine "shoot / don't shoot" is an important topic which deserves a thread all its own.


I was hoping this thread would have a narrow focus on when or even if you would ever "give your position away."


I guess people will talk about what they want to talk about. Some responses go into great detail on every aspect of home defense. One gentleman even responded that he will not discuss the topic! I guess I can count myself lucky that the thread hasn't devolved into a debate over the effectiveness of bird shot!


For the record, I don't advocate racking a shotgun slide. It comes a little too close to the mindset of "I'll just scare 'em with my gun" which I think might be the worst mindset you could possibly have.


But my question for this thread is, don't you at some point have to give away your position? If so, why is racking the slide any worse than shouting a warning, or anything else?


There used to be an old guy at a gun store I frequented who had a rather extreme position on this. He stated that the first thing any intruder in his house would see would be the bright light of the muzzle flash! That's what he said, not what I would ever advise. Speaking for myself, I would want to exhaust every other option before I pulled the trigger.


Case in point:
On the news not long ago was a story about a kid getting killed. It seems a teenaged girl who lived at home with her parents snuck her boyfriend into her room for a nocturnal visitation. At some point in the wee hours of the morning, boyfriend decided he'd better sneak back home before his parents missed him, so he slipped out into the hallway and started for the door. Apparently the man of the house heard footsteps in the hall and grabbed a gun. Not recognizing the "intruder" the father tragically shot and killed the unarmed teenager. I don't know all the circumstances, but I am willing to bet the man wishes he would have held fire until he was certain that the "intruder" was indeed a threat.


Hopefully, you all get my point. I wanted the thread to focus on having to, one way or another, give away your position BEFORE you shoot if you absolutely had to. But I'm not a killjoy. If people here just want to argue about birdshot, or anything else, go ahead.

 

[Comrad]

There's no substitute for good physical security, solid doors with dead bolt, striker fastened to framing, unbreakable windows, locked and motion activated lighting. If they make it in after that, the advantage is mine, I know the layout in the dark, the intruder has no idea where I am and will be waiting with a fully loaded Louisville Slugger.

 

[Biggfoot44]

If and when I wish to announce myself, I'll do it by voice.

 

[bigwheelzip]

But my question for this thread is, don't you at some point have to give away your position? If so, why is racking the slide any worse than shouting a warning, or anything else?

In the situation you described, where an intruder has already silently entered and is out of sight, our HD guns are all chambered so flipping a safety is all the noise from that end of things. Then a whispered call to 911 is the end of it, and hope the law shows up to clear the house before there's a confrontation.

There's nothing out there but unoccupied bedrooms and bathrooms, so I'm not doing battle unless the threat approaches and is imminent. A warning goes to anyone who appears and is clearly not holding a weapon (nightlights throughout the house).

BTW, that's my husbands plan, and I agree with it.

If the noise is from an intruder that has not yet entered, then the scenario is the same except a warning gets shouted to try and stop the intrusion.

 

[Duckford]

People who have frequented this board for a long time, or home defense in general, have almost certainly come across Ayoob's "Don't Answer The Door", and there are valuable lessons to take away from that. I'll use that to reinforce my previous post and idea, you should be heard but not seen. Direct confrontation can cause an otherwise non violent intruder to resort to fight or flight mode, and maybe fight instead of flight, all at close quarters. The aggressive or violent intruder may be given an edge by you directly showing yourself. Also, coming up on a non intruder, half asleep at night, close quarters and with real adrenaline and a loaded gun, is a dangerous situation at the very least.

Again, it all comes down to your very own situation and place. But, cover is cover, deflade and not being noticed can be of advantage. And in some circumstances, waiting is the best alternative. If you wait in the shadows and see the person is wearing a ski mask and carrying a weapon of any sort, perhaps shooting from the shadow can be justified and correct. There is the possibility that if the intruder is brandishing a firearm, ambush is the most ethical choice, if someone is to get the first shot, let it be you. Direct confrontation can make it violent and spiral out of control, showing your position may only take away your edge.

When Cortez conquered Tenochtitlan, he left one out of the five causeways open so that the Aztecs could retreat. Chasing an intruder away with verbal threats, mere presence, the idea the police are called, ect., may be anti climactic, but could be very effective. Let the man panic, but give him no one to fight, and he probably resort to flight, and if you don't cut off his entrance, he might just leave without a fight. And, as I've said, if he instead turns aggressive and comes deeper into the home, or at you, he wasn't going to be reasoned with anyhow.

Showing yourself and confrontation might get the guy to surrender, might help him make his choice to flee, but it could also cause a fight if you box him, and could give you the disadvantage if he was going to fight from the get go. Give away your general position, never give up your direct position.

 

[Smoke]

But my question for this thread is, don't you at some point have to give away your position? If so, why is racking the slide any worse than shouting a warning, or anything else?

Every time this topic comes up I say the same thing; every time you rack the slide on a shotgun (or any gun [except a Glock because Glocks never fail] ) you risk a mechanical failure.

That alone should be enough reason not to do it

 

[elm_creek_smith]

If you have your home built, as I did, you can have an extra switch installed in the master bedroom that controls all the lights in the "common areas" such as the living/dining/kitchen/hall/pantry/laundry room/garage/outside. We have the typical "light/ceiling fan" double switch next to the master bedroom door. Next to it with a separate plate is the "master light switch." If the alarm and/or the dog (60 pound Lab mix) alert me, I arm myself, wake my wife (if she isn't already), direct her to call 9-1-1 on her cell phone and stay on the line. (She arms herself, too!) Then I flip the "magic switch" and every light in the house (almost) comes on! I'm in the process of installing an intercom that allows me to alert the other bedrooms (if we have guests) and warn intruders that they are about to meet Ben (the Lab mix) and me and/or their maker if they aren't gone when the doors open.

Yeah, it cost me a bit extra to have the lights connected to the extra switch with an override (if the light is already on it stays on), but we think it was worth it. There may be wireless switches that allow you to do the same thing.

 

[Stevens]

How about having home motion sensors and your doorbell set up to play a loud recording of a shotgun being "racked". That should send everyone from bill collectors to burglars packing!
Steve W

 

[Faulkner]

There's no need for me to jack a round into the chamber of my home defense shotgun when something goes bump in the night, there's one already there.

 

[Brasky]

I give my position away by turning on my light which is a position I am ready to fire if the intruder is a danger.

Racking a shotgun tells the intruder where I am before I ever know who it is, where they are, and whether or not they are an intruder.

Racking a shotgun as a "scare tactic" is pretty foolish IMO

 

[Protected One]

Regarding your very valid concern, my feeling is that 99.9% of intruders would prefer not to have a confrontation with a home occupant.

If so, then they should stay out of my house.

Having no children or other occupants (besides my wife) at my house, ANYONE that has worked their way through the doors/windows etc... is regarded as a threat and will be treated as such.

There is no *free peek* inside so they can potentially return at a later date - this time WITH KNOWLEDGE OF THE INTERIOR LAYOUT, or a confirmation that the owner "won't shoot if they try to run out".

 

[Ranger514]

Home defense shotgun should be cocked and locked.

Shotguns have notoriously low magazine capacity. Giving up say 20% of that capacity so you can make some noise doesn't work for me. The click of the safety coming off could scare them just as much.

Racking the slide is a gross motor skill. In deep stress, there is a good chance you will do it wrong.

My shotgun has an 8-round capacity, which I don't consider "low," especially when it comes to the amount of firepower it generates at close range using #4 shot. Furthermore, in a SHTF situation involving stress, repeated studies have shown that gross motor skills are much easier to perform than fine motor skills involving finger manipulation and coordination (opreating safeties, making magazine exchanges, pulling a trigger, etc.)

Bottom Line: Use whatever home defense system works best for you. That means drilling to build confidence and muscle memory with your chosen means of defense. If you use a tactical flashlight, whether in hand or firearm mounted, the best use is for a split second illumination to blind and disorient a subject, while you quickly identify the threat assessment. Never maintain a static position with an illuminated flashlight, unless you want to draw fire. The tactical use of a flashlight is meant to be a quick illumination, followed by an immediate movement to a physically different location without using illumination.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I haven't upset any drug cartel lately nor have I been sleeping with the neighbor's wife... so the notion that an intruder being alerted that I'm home via me cursing as I stub my toe jumping out of bed will then have an edge in his determined mission to seek a confrontation or gun battle because he now "knows my position" seems unlikely. To the contrary, my guess is that an intruder in my home once alerted someone is home will more likely result in fleeing.

But hey, no one can predict the future. You could remain silent taking a covered position in the bedroom. When the unarmed unaware teen who is the son of your church buddy living down the street opens the bedroom door to find a jewelry box and you panic with a 12ga shot that drops the teen dead on the floor... you win.... well maybe not so much.

Thing is.... you can play a thousand different scenarios and have a different outcome each time. No one knows.

 

[Gamecock]

We are all responsible for our own salvation.