Gov owner observations

[Whistlebritches]

I had the idea of a Governor, in my mind for some time. I didnt really plan to buy one, but was shopping my old H S ISU gun, at Cabelas, and they actually wanted it, possibly the only buyer in Reno, and they had a near spanking new Governor in their case.

Laser grips no less, but as laser sights are not all that great in the NV 355 days a year, sun, I replaced them with Badger birdseye maple.

I have probably less than 50 rounds through it, 5 or 6 410 shells, and it actually patterns decent, with 7.5, at a few steps. The katy bar the door Federal triple buck loads the same.

45 colt handloads, for sure group better than the ACP loads, I reckon from the less "free bore".

I have read other sites, I feel the shooters are expecting the 410, to pattern like a 42 Win skeet gun, at the same range.

A good buddy, spends a lot of time in the mountains, was looking at one of the longer barrel makers. The occasional fools hen, for the pot type use. But again, I dont see any them are gonna replace a "real" 410 shotgun, at more than a few steps.

In my thinking, a homeowner waking up in the middle of the night, may forget to watch their front sight, and some bird shot, at across the room, may change the direction of the perp coming in, and if not, ya got 5 more hardball handy.

I have done some minor experiments with 44 shot loads, in a 4 inch 29, I wish I could find some of the 45 shot cups, but no luck yet.

Next plan, is too get some short ribs, wrap them behind a few layers of lunch meat, and do some penetration test.

From 4 steps, 7.5 shot, went through a 6 inch deep box, layered with ten pieces of "standard" cardboard,

The same AA factory load, chronographed at 799

As with any gun testing "your mileage may vary"

I doubt it will turn heads of new shooters, but being that light, and 3 inch, it does buck a bit. Especially with those Federal loads.

Any comments, agree or not, are welcome.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I have a Governor. I'm very pleased with it. It spends some time on the night stand and in various other self defense situations. All I'm trying to do is make that other fella' decide he's got something better to do at the moment than try to screw with me . .

 

[RogerA]

I have a Governor. I'm very pleased with it. It spends some time on the night stand and in various other self defense situations. All I'm trying to do is make that other fella' decide he's got something better to do at the moment than try to screw with me . .

This old head and these old hands are thinking something like a Governor might be the correct choice for me. As always, a pleasure to read and see your posts. Take care.

 

[HughD1]

My wife gave me one for Christmas. It goes with me on my morning walks in SW Mississippi. I know how quickly birdshot spreads out of it. How on earth did you chronograph birdshot without damaging your crony?

Hugh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I like the idea of the Governor, but already have several 45 Colt revolvers. So I shortened 460 S&W cases to 1.50", the same OAL as a loaded round and used a 44-40 die to put a slight bottle neck in the case where the chamber narrows for the bullet. Since I was after a 1/2 ounce load I used a lead bullet load for 220 grain bullet, 6.7 grains of WW 231, placed a 45 cal. card (I used cork, but cardboard would work) over the powder and dumped in 1/2 ounce of 7.5 birdshot. I started with a Gas Check as an over shot card and crimped it in place. These were fine for immediate use. But worked loose when being carried in the woods. I later went to a 45 Cal cork card, and sealed in place with Getter seam sealer from Lowe's (allow two weeks to dry.)

These loads are about 750 fps. Out of a 5.5" Vaquero barrel the spread 12" at 15 feet. Works great on snakes and close vermin. Really teares them up much better than 1/3 ounce of #12 shot in the CCI/Speer shot shells.

I would assume 410 will also hold better patterns with shells loaded to a 700-800 fps velocity also.

I used Magnum type shot and had no leading issues.

454 cases will work too but are only about 3/8 ounce of shot.

Ivan

 

[surfgun]

Nowwhat happens when one squeezes off a .454 Casull in one of these?

 

[BourbonCowboy]

In my thinking, a homeowner waking up in the middle of the night, may forget to watch their front sight, and some bird shot, at across the room, may change the direction of the perp coming in, and if not, ya got 5 more hardball handy.

I don't have a Governor, but I do have a Judge. To say it's loud is a gross understatement. The birdshot might be a deterrent, but the sound coming out of that hand cannon will definitely make an unsuspecting intruder soil his underwear.

 

[22hipower]

Nowwhat happens when one squeezes off a .454 Casull in one of these?

Pretty sure you'll only do that once.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[22hipower]

This Governor discussion comes up occasionally here, most S&W fans aren't wild about it, based on previous comments anyway. I used to feel the same way, until I bought one.

Turns out to be the perfect revolver, and I've tried most of the others, for ranch use. Carry it with three 410s and 3 45 Colts and you're ready for most any varmint. I've killed skunks with it with the 410 loads at 15 yards and use it to dispatch wounded hogs. It's light, easy to carry and those benefits far outweigh how ugly it is. I use the laser grips too as in the dark that red dot helps considerably. Enjoy.

Jeff
SWCa #1457

 

[Uraldriver]

There's a guy on Youtube Gun Sam that is pretty enamored with his. If they were in the $500 range I'd consider one. The Buckshot loads seem effective. I would not shoot Birdshot at anyone that I had a legitimate reason to shoot in self defense.

 

[surfgun]

Since these are cut accept rimless cartridges, has anyone tried .45 Super? Or even imprudent .45 Winchester Magnum cartridges?

 

[Whistlebritches]

A few guys here, using their heads, for something other than a place to park their sombrero.

As a rule, gun makers rarely chamber anything, that an incorrect round will fire in.

Though I can speak from personal experience, the claw extractor on Mauser, may hold the rim tight enough, to get an 06 base case, to fire in a 338 Rem mag chamber....no blood, that the good Lord looks after fools maybe...

I did some measuring with my verniers, and with no 454 loaded round too test, it MIGHT be a bit too long, before hitting the "forcing cone", in the chambers. Would be interesting to learn the facts.

The Cassull case, is .003 smaller dia as well, maybe the "sloppyness" might be the warning flag.

Another suspect fireworks as hinted, is the 45 Win Mag

I chronographed using an Oehler 33 P. I made wood covers for the screens, and held high over the screens.

I later borrowed a buddies, Labradar, thus the muzzle actually ahead of the unit. I plan to order one soon.

My 33P apparently has ghosts, never reads much of the time, especially when I only bring a couple rounds. Its been back to Oehler three times, they claim its a problem with aircraft radar, and "too test it some place else", which would mean I would have to drive up to Oregon, as NAS Fallon, flys over head, many weeks a year.

I had an old school 33 though years back, and it was like a Timex watch, always worked. Maybe the Navy changed their radar since then?

When I could still walk good, we did a lot of handgun testing on Jacks, shot them with every handgun in the safe. Learned a lot.

Similar testing with small bores rifles, on ground squirrels. An obvious difference, starting from 17 Mach 2, to various 22 LR HP, on up the scale, to 22 250 class. We found kills, versus instant kills depending.

We had so much mountain snow this past winter, the squirrels are even hard to find this season. Theory is, they drown in their holes.
A similar situation we noticed, the last time we had record snow, in the mid 1980s, and later 97.

Thanks to all for their ideas. I showed the gun today, to a retired CA county deputy, turns out, he has a 66, by his bed, with shot loads in the first two, along with 4 katy bar the door loads.

As an aside, I knew two guys, flew and killed coyotes, from a Cessna, for the state, and they reported steel BB, from a 3 inch 12, left holes in both sides of a coyote, from maybe 20/30 yards away, as they flew by.

I suspect may be a reason, a handgun is defensive, and a shotgun an offensive weapon.

 

[steelslaver]

I bought the one of Taurus models cheap from a pawn shop. It had a 6" barrel, but I found a 3" barrel which I reamed to .452 then put shallow, about 1 in 60" twist rate rifling back in and installed it. Not only does it pattern fairly well at 20 yards, but 6 shot from a 2 1/2" shell will penetrate 1/2" OSB. I have since found a bunch of 3" shells for it. I have always found that normal rifling spins the shot load and you end up with a hole in the center of the pattern in a very short range.

But, I only see it as a short range grouse and pheasant killer to carry around in my truck and side by side while hunting.

While I would not want to be shot by anything in one, I have several way better self defense guns for both house and carry

I have considered running some 45-120 brass though a 45 colt die, shaving the rim a .010 to make some 3 1/4" long brass cases that I can load any way I want and use a roll crimp on a wad to hold it all in. Other option is to get a 2nd cylinder and ream it out a tiny bit to accept 45-120 brass. A 3 1/4" brass case that does not have the end unfold like a 410 shell will work in a 3" 410 cylinder

 

[Whistlebritches]

Now, there is a perfect example of members here, using their heads, for something besides a hat rack.

You and I must be brothers from a different mother...I am finally old enough to sort all my projects and ideas, into "which one gives the less headaches"

I like the one comment about "noise" as well. Everyone gets their gun "facts" from movies, and rare is the action picture, two or three guys shooting inside of a vehicle.

None of them go around saying, "huh" though, as would be in reality. Kind of like head butting, seen in the movies, both heads are gonna hurt.

I actually saw an old TV western awhile back, the deputy was asking the sheriff, "is that coach gun gonna work"? Sheriff answers, "shoot him in the legs, he falls down"

With bird shot, just aim about three feet higher.

I just pray, to never have too. I dont feel like selling all my house, and guns to pay the lawyer.

 

[Mike-AK]

I bought a Governor on a whim, and it sat in the safe for a couple years before I sold it. .410 ammo is not easy to come by, and when you do find it, it is expensive. Shot patterns are horrendous, and there are far better platforms for .45 Auto and .45 Colt, IMO. Just for fun before I sold it, I checked to see if a Buffalo Bore .454 Casull round would fit in the chamber. It did. No, I did not fire it! I imagine somebody has, or will, though.

 

[K-22]

Nothing Good

Nowwhat happens when one squeezes off a .454 Casull in one of these?

Nothing good.

 

[Whistlebritches]

I bought a Governor on a whim, and it sat in the safe for a couple years before I sold it. .410 ammo is not easy to come by, and when you do find it, it is expensive. Shot patterns are horrendous, and there are far better platforms for .45 Auto and .45 Colt, IMO. Just for fun before I sold it, I checked to see if a Buffalo Bore .454 Casull round would fit in the chamber. It did. No, I did not fire it! I imagine somebody has, or will, though.

Am a bit surprised, it hasnt already took place. One of those "hold me beer, and watch this" moments.

I recall a story way back, I had worked on a guys 16 M12. He came back in cussing about the "gun not firing". I say, "Pardner, I am way sorry, lets figure it out, show me the ammo you were using". Hands me 20 ga ammo...His lights came on, before mine did, and apologized, and walked out.

Those who know M12, 16 and 20s are near identical at first glance, and he apparently had both, very similar old blue brown worn finish.

Got a buddy witnessed it, and he still talks and laughs about it.

I believe, that was why they color coded shells back in the day, guys were dropping 20s, into a 12, and they slide down, and smoke and fire soon happems.

I dont throw too many rocks at folks making such mistakes, as only the grace of the Lord, do I still have ten fingers, nearly doing identical boners.

 

[22hipower]

I believe, that was why they color coded shells back in the day, guys were dropping 20s, into a 12, and they slide down, and smoke and fire soon happems.

No color codes on 300 Blackout rounds but you can sometimes fire them in a .223/5.56 chamber. . . . . .once.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Whistlebritches]

I dont think they color code shotgun shells any more either. But you may recall 12 red/16 purple/20 yellow/ cant recall 28 nor 410.
Nor am I swearing it as fact, but I seem to recall reading it.

I popped a 25 06 in a 30 338 way back, in a hurry shooting an antelope, and a long story. All it did, was swell the case, course the bullet bounced down the barrel and didnt seal.

A lot of difference than with this 454 /410 example. The 454 case might not seal very well, but the bullet isnt gonna bounce down the barrel, and relieve the pressure.

The theory similar to a long throat Weatherby, lowers the pressure curve.
With out that long throat, ya coudnt keep a primer in a Weatherby.

Most of us have popped a 22 LR case, in a 22WMR chamber, and a split case is the only issue.

Several vintage revolver rounds will fire in various back in the day guns, there is that one Spanish 9, that about a half dozen various 9 rounds, will make a noise, yet nothing comes apart.A split case maybe.

Maybe we can get those mythbuster guys to try it?

OH yeah, I never pop a cap, without wearing shooting glasses. Not even a 22 rimfire. NEVER, and because of what I have seen in the past, when the devil comes calling.

 

[surfgun]

Taurus has some Judge models that can fire the .454 Casull.
A 3"
Raging Judge 513
And a 6.5"
Raging Judge 513

But I think there needs to be a revival with modern bullets for the .45 Winchester Magnum. A .45 Winchester Magnum revolver could use moon clipped .45 ACP as a sub load.
I believe this concept would surpass any 10mm revolver included those that may be reamed out to 10mm Magnum.

 

[Whistlebritches]

Interesting. Some will recall, when the 357 came out, some guys were reaming out their heavy frame 38 specials, to 357.

Little doubt, a few of them came apart.

Bullet speed, from a 454, out of a 3 inch tube, must rate right up there with a 45 blackpowder Colt load, but there may be some new secret powder, I am not aware of.

One of the common ideas about guns and ammo, from relaoders. "this is likely safe, the books are always low, to satisfy the lawyers"

Perhaps true to a degree, perhaps not.

The question may be, did the necktie wearing guy, who designed the gun, use the right steel, in what ever gun, previously designed for a "low" pressure round?

A thicker chamber wall, does add strength, but common carbon steel, thick or not, may not stand the pressure a thin wall, properly treated 4140 steel will.

I would love to learn how many guns, came apart on Keith, when he was on the learning curve about the 44 Mag.

He and Ackley both, had worked at the Ogden ammo depot, so may have been more "science", behind some of their findings, than many think.

A lot of the stories, try to make both men, sound like ignorant farm boys, but I dont think that was the case. Neither were fools.

I have never been the guy, chasing the nub nose magnum big bore craze.

My 4 inch 29, is as much fun as I want to have, with a 240 hard cast. Sure, some of these new hand cannons, weigh a bit more, a video, might show a lot of closed eyes during their firing.

Rare is the shooter, that can shoot the magnum rounds, as accurately, as they can a plain old K38, with wadcutter.

But the big ones keep the bean pot boiling, and thats the American way full speed ahead, darn the torpedos.

They are all fun for sure!

 

[tennexplorer]

But I think there needs to be a revival with modern bullets for the .45 Winchester Magnum. A .45 Winchester Magnum revolver could use moon clipped .45 ACP as a sub load.
I believe this concept would surpass any 10mm revolver included those that may be reamed out to 10mm Magnum.

Well there's this one.

A 25 with a 625 cylinder cut for moonclips. I use Starline brass. Winchester factory brass won't fit the moonclips. Handloads only. NO FACTORY LOADS.

 

[Whistlebritches]

So we are talking "hot loading" the 625, with a 45 Colt?
When 25-5 came out decades back, I thought the jury was out on hot loads in the Colt case?

Was that because of the possible ballon head Colt cases? Or cylinder strength? Or both?

These new 625 different? I know there is one company doing all sorts of custom conversions.

Not trying to start a urinating contest, just trying to get caught up on some of the newer ideas, and conventions of handguns.

I have a 625, love it, but wish they had chambered it to allow use, even if clips were not found.

My old 1917, does allow the gun to make noise, with no clips, but of course a stick needs found, or strong fingernails too reload.

I did discover, in their desire for light pull, I got occasional DA misfires, until cranking in the strain screw, on the 625.

I learned that trick way back, when the popular trick was clipping springs. Just dont do it on a J frame, as hard primers do exist.

 

[10Mad]

I have one and really like it. I got one when they were first released. If you match the ammo to the application it is a fine machine. Mine is very accurate with 45 ACP. When I got it the various 410 ammo was plentiful and I tried all of them. I can attest the buckshot loads are serious.

 

[Whistlebritches]

I have one and really like it. I got one when they were first released. If you match the ammo to the application it is a fine machine. Mine is very accurate with 45 ACP. When I got it the various 410 ammo was plentiful and I tried all of them. I can attest the buckshot loads are serious.

Interesting observations. I see quite a lot of difference, with the Gov, and ACP, with my Mickulek 625. I mean the Mick gun holds the ten ring off the bench, easy, at 25 yards, while the Gov closer to the outside edge of the black.

I doubt the three inch barrel, and rather light weight, compared to the Mick gun, offers X ring advantages.

I only had about 20 LC cases, so until I scrounge some more, more serious testing will be delayed.

A Colt mid range load, behind a Sierra 240 HP, shot considerably better than the ACP in the Gov. At least I could see some grouping.

Neither as good as the Mick gun with ACP loads though. I presume again, I think safely, its that "free bore" gap, until the forcing cone actually makes contact.

The Gov for sure needs more work, to ascertain.

I doubt the perp across the average living room, would notice a larger group.

I am happy to note your comments about the 410 buck loads. I just thought maybe I was getting old.

Wait, a minute, I am getting old....

 

[Whistlebritches]

new experiment findings

Not trying to begin any urinating contests, just finally got some loads concocted, and finally figured out how to use my brand new Labradar!

So, with WWAA 410 factory skeet loads, 1/2 ounce, it read 611 fps. 8 1/2 shot size

With a Lyman book load, 1/2 ounce of number 5''s, ran 657 and 667 fps

Same powder, but with 1/2 ounce of number 2 shot, gave 672 and 764 fps.

Probably a lot slower than commonly advertised, well....thats nothing new.

Patterns you ask? From 3 and a half steps, a realistic katy bar the door distance, all them were about 16 x 16, nice even patterns.

85 holes,, for the number 5, and 45 holes for the number 2 shot. Near 100 percent on paper, both shot sizes

Penetration you ask? I had many pairs of old levis and wranglers laying in the closet floor, for some reason, they keep shrinking every year or so.....

I cut 5 inch long pieces out of each leg, and put in a piece of common corrugated cardboard, into each "pocket". Remember, the original seams make it into a tube, just staple or glue the open ends.

6 pockets, back to back making an assembly, of maybe an inch and a quarter thick. So, one assembly, is needed for each penetration test.

I then taped them to the cardboard backing of the target stand, around 3.5 foot distance.

So the number 5 shot penetrated 4 "layers" of material and cardboard, and some dents in layer 5

With number 2 shot, it penetrated 5 layers, and dented number 6.

Do a study on how fast energy increases, in shot size, its amazing.

One must remember, any woven material really slows bullets down. The weave density, is what makes kevlar work.

Funny, they do those expansion tests using the fancy jello, but never dress up the "jello"....

Similar to the bullets that dont penetrate an elk, they rarely come out looking like the pictures.

The numbers show an interesting thing. In the above velocity results, and, IF all the shot in each shot, hit what ever malcriado, trying to do us harm, the energy ON TARGET, would be similar as an entry level 44 special, using 200 grain bullets would give.

A bit over, 200 Foot pounds of energy.

If the ner do well, is wearing a vest, kneecaps, and rather high hold, might make good aiming points too.

We tend to forget, no rules exist, if someone is showing deadly intent against us. We might be nervous too, and even half a pattern, on target, might persuade the attacker to reverse. Better than a close miss, with a 44

All thoughts welcome. Just dont imply, that I am a politician...

 

[CajunBass]

I believe, that was why they color coded shells back in the day, guys were dropping 20s, into a 12, and they slide down, and smoke and fire soon happems

That was the exact reason. I think it was Federal who did that. I don't think anyone else did, except I don't think I've ever bought a 20 ga that wasn't yellow. But it's been a long time since I bought any shotgun shells, and there are manufacturers I never heard of now. Back in the day, there was just the big three.

 

[22hipower]

That was the exact reason. I think it was Federal who did that. I don't think anyone else did, except I don't think I've ever bought a 20 ga that wasn't yellow. But it's been a long time since I bought any shotgun shells, and there are manufacturers I never heard of now. Back in the day, there was just the big three.

Ok, this comment has absolutely nothing to do with a Governor or 410 loads but I was triggered by the 20 ga yellow shell comment. I was at the local Cabelas last Friday picking up a few things to prepare for dove season opening this Friday, and there was not a single 20 ga. shell, of any color, available for sale. Quite a few 12s, but no 20s on the shelves. I thought the ammo drought was over. . . . .

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[rosewood]

My wife gave me one for Christmas. It goes with me on my morning walks in SW Mississippi. I know how quickly birdshot spreads out of it. How on earth did you chronograph birdshot without damaging your crony?

Hugh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Per instructions with my Chrony, you shoot shotgun at about 2' away. Has always worked for me.

Rosewood

 

[rosewood]

I bought a Governor on a whim, and it sat in the safe for a couple years before I sold it. .410 ammo is not easy to come by, and when you do find it, it is expensive. Shot patterns are horrendous, and there are far better platforms for .45 Auto and .45 Colt, IMO. Just for fun before I sold it, I checked to see if a Buffalo Bore .454 Casull round would fit in the chamber. It did. No, I did not fire it! I imagine somebody has, or will, though.

I have the Taurus. I also have the Raging Bull .454. The cylinder wall of the judge are quite thin especially when comparing to the RB 454. My engineering mind looks at those thin walls and says to not ever shoot anything out of it other than SAAMI max pressure 45 colt or .410. I can't speak for the Governor.

Rosewood