Great Action of an old gent.

[jaykellogg]

I don't want to start another discussion of which is the best self defense round (12 gage), but .380 is well, better than nothing. IMO, there isn't much difference between the others. The point I am trying to make is if you get in a shooting scrape, 1) you will probably fire multiple shots, and 2) the BG will in all likelihood not drop immediately. Even a mortal wound may not prevent the BG from returning fire or running away. Modern health care can save people who a few years ago would have been killed. This video shows clearly what is likely to happen in a shooting scrape. Fortunately, this ended well.

 

[brucev]

Good shoot. As to caliber, neither of the two criminals appeared interested in offering any perspective on the effectiveness of the .380 used on them. Not sure where they were shot, but such situations are dynamic. One cannot wait for the subject to stand up and offer a more conventional presentation. It's easy to say what he should have done... that he should have had a more powerful weapon or that he should have done a better job of aiming and firing for more critical hits. Reminds one of shooting hogs up close, i.e., things seldom work out exactly as would occur shooting hog silhouettes at the range. The old man did the right thing... he stopped the threat. He didn't kill anyone. All of the customers/staff went home. He went home. The criminals go to jail. Good all around. JMHO.

 

[MrAmbassador]

The bad guys are responsible for any resulting damage or law suits as far as I am concerned.

 

[Trooperdan]

Here is a link to an interview with the robbers, one of them at least. He says they had a rusty and non-op gun. The story reports it as a .45. The robber also complages that the old guy kep shooting when I was down!

Patron fires on armed robbers at Palms Internet Cafe in Ocala | Ocala.com

 

[BE Mike]

I agree. The local news is reporting that the old fellow will not face any charges, but I think he got a bit over zealous. It seems like the first shot was enough to stop the thugs. At the same time, it's easy for me to say that now, I wasn't in his shoes.

Your Monday morning quarterbacking is all wet. The thugs went down, but didn't stay down. As long as the threat continues, one should take all necessary measures to neutralize it. All the thugs had to do was stay down and surrender.

 

[jaykellogg]

Your Monday morning quarterbacking is all wet. The thugs went down, but didn't stay down. As long as the threat continues, one should take all necessary measures to neutralize it. All the thugs had to do was stay down and surrender.

I agree. The old guy kept firing at a threat. I didn't see anything that led me to believe the BGs were staying down or surrendering.

In fact, I went back and looked at the video and (to me) it looks like the one guy fell briefly and the shooter didn't appear to shoot him while he was down. I think the correct decision was to not press charges.

I am glad it ended the way it did. It makes me angry that someone would think they can take away property from someone else at the point of a gun. Here in Buncombe County, NC. there are 2000 people who are licensed to carry a handgun concealed. There are probably a few more who carry without the permit.

 

[redlevel]

My initial reaction, Yeah, this is how we do it! After veiwing it, I saw a couple things that might come back on the old guy. The bad guys were retreating and he was still firing. Second, one of the patrons covered her ears during the encounter. There are two probable lawsuits, more if any rounds missed and impacted downrange. Kudos to the old guy for taking action, but his backside might still be hanging out.

I agree. The local news is reporting that the old fellow will not face any charges, but I think he got a bit over zealous. It seems like the first shot was enough to stop the thugs. At the same time, it's easy for me to say that now, I wasn't in his shoes.

Horse Hockey . . . it was a good shoot.

The old guy was not firing wildly. There was a threat as long as the thugs were in the building. He pursued them to the door. When they exited, he did not leave the building. If he had followed them out, I might agree with you, but he didn't. If the patron with the covered ears wants to sue, she should sue the thugs. There are no reports of bullets doing any harm downrange. I wouldn't be surprised if all his shots hit a thug. He was not spraying and praying. I only hope that if I ever get involved in such an upscuddle that I control my fire as well. I wish most cops could do that well.

I think an important point is that the thugs . . . cowards that they are . . . turned tail and ran immediately when they were confronted by an armed citizen.

 

[wyatt66]

Your Monday morning quarterbacking is all wet. The thugs went down, but didn't stay down. As long as the threat continues, one should take all necessary measures to neutralize it. All the thugs had to do was stay down and surrender.

I respect your opinion, but I am not going to jail for shooting a FLEEING thug who no longer poses an immediate threat. Such cases have been documented and jail terms issued for such actions. In addition, he was shooting "towards" glass doors. Where did those rounds end up? What if he shot an innocent passerby or a patron inside the cafe? He fired, the thugs dirtied their pants and they began to flee. I may have acted in the same way, but a jury may not share our thoughts on "neutralizing the threat."

 

[cluznar]

Time crooks got what they deserve. Those bad guys were lucky he wasn't using a .40 S&W or a .45 cal.

Bet those crooks think twice before trying it again... then they may not have the smarts to quit while they are ahead.

Also as long as they are armed and still a threat you keep shooting just like that guy did. The crooks should have thrown down their guns and he would have stopped shooting.

 

[HGWT]

I agree with cluznur, he got back up off the floor, Im going to keep shooting. Three cheers for that elderly man.

 

[Twoboxer]

After enjoying each separately, I went through all the links in this thread one time to think about what Gramps did.

1) He racked the slide on leaving his chair, so he likely wasn't carrying one in the chamber.

2) Beginning with his rising from his chair, he continuously moved at and "forced" the perps until they were outside, and then cleared away from the glass front cafe doors . . . which he then quickly locked.

3) Pretty sure he fired 6 shots, which likely emptied his pistol.

4) Dunno what FPS (speed) the security video was taken at, but his recoil control looked pretty good to me lol.

5) At least three wounds were reported on the two perps, ie, "Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip."

Could be his goal was driving the perps out of "his house" from the gitgo. Or he might have closed with perp#1 to avoid endangering nearby customers, and the rest of his "plan" evolved from there.

I give him props. I'd like to think I'd have drawn, racked, and fired twice at the start . . . but I don't know if I would have chanced getting as close to the perp as he appeared to.

I'd also like to think I'd have continued doing *something* until the perps were outside "my house", and "my people" were safe. My first thought was maybe I wouldn't have emptied the mag. But once you get out of that chair to face two guys who have at least one gun . . . it would have been foolhardy to do less than he did.

Not to "profile" or anything . . . but they were wearing hoodies

 

[M29since14]

It's silly to armchair quarterback this too much - the fellow did a great job! Everyone in that cafe ought to have thanked him. If the law disagrees, it is just crazy.

I hope he comes out of it OK. Doesn't FL law protect a citizen from civil liability if he uses his firearm for legal self-defense? I hope so.

I'd buy him a steak dinner if he ever comes through town. We need more like him.

 

[Snakeshift]

I respect your opinion, but I am not going to jail for shooting a FLEEING thug who no longer poses an immediate threat. Such cases have been documented and jail terms issued for such actions. In addition, he was shooting "towards" glass doors. Where did those rounds end up? What if he shot an innocent passerby or a patron inside the cafe? He fired, the thugs dirtied their pants and they began to flee. I may have acted in the same way, but a jury may not share our thoughts on "neutralizing the threat."

Again, you're Monday morning quarterbacking. You're not the prosecutor on this case, as he seems to think it was a good shoot. So the whole "Jury isn't going to buy SD" argument is moot.

Frankly it's people like you who want to sit back and debate every second of every frame of a self defense shoot to try and lay some sort of culpability at the hands of the man DEFENDING his/others lives.

You say that the danger was over? Go back and look at the tape again, even as they are running out of the store and fall over each other, the suspect with the pistol NEVER drops it or surrenders (puts his hands up).

Additionally, no one other than the two pieces of trash were injured, the only property damage was caused by the baseball bat of one of the suspects.

 

[Scott E White]

Thank you, Mr. Samuel Williams!

It's silly to armchair quarterback this too much - the fellow did a great job! Everyone in that cafe ought to have thanked him...

I'd buy him a steak dinner if he ever comes through town. We need more like him.

DAMNED RIGHT! And, STOP calling him old, elderly, etc. Although he's a Senior, it's obvious that he's still a lot "younger", sound of mind, mentally prepared, and able-bodied than many of us (despite what we would like to think of ourselves).

 

[M&P Freak]

What's up with the hands up guy? Probably still in therapy dealing with post traumatic whatever you call it. I'm just glad someone had the stones to react accordingly. The perps should thank their lucky stars.

 

[bobsdad]

You cannot say for certain what was in the gentleman's mind during this incident. If it was me, I would have been afraid for my life and others as long as the thugs had weapons in their hands. And I believe I would have tried, like this gentleman, to protect myself and others with all means at my disposal. To subscribe the ability to think through the situation and downstream consequences, while it is happening, is not likely.

 

[DeathGrip]

I think an important point is that the thugs . . . cowards that they are . . . turned tail and ran immediately when they were confronted by an armed citizen.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Kacz]

Good for this man. He had courage to do what many of us would not.

Couple of things that caught my eye: I saw what I believe to be slot machines in the feed and the place is named "Palms". If the slots are real this place may be considered a casino. In my state my CC permit is not valid in casinos. I checked FL law and do not see this limitation so he was within his right to carry here. FL does however prohibit CC in any place which serves alcohol - I doubt this "internet cafe" does. The only shot that gave me pause was the last one he sent out the door after they had exited and based on the tape it appears the threat had subsided. However, we cannot see what they are doing outside and since they both fled they certainly had not submitted at any point inside or out.

All that said, this man risked his life and safety to stop this threat against him and other citizens. I believe he acted responsibly within his right and should be commended. He is a hero who saved lives this day.

 

[LTC]

Whats with all the old guy & Gramps discriptions of the citizen? It's reported he's in his 60's. So am I and I recoil from being called an old guy. We are just "upper middle aged".

It is true though, most of us gave up on fist fights and or fair fights a few years back.

Pick your victems with care or pay the price.

LTC

 

[oldafsp]

Admittedly, I can't go two or three rounds with someone in their 20's or 30's...not anymore.

But..don't mess with us "old" guys. We didn't survive this long in our lives because we were stupid or didn't have better than average skills.