Hand loading your self defense ammo?

[Nevada Ed]

If I were to use my reloads for SD and had to use them.........

I would make sure I had a second magazine or revolver loader with ...

Factory ammo, just in case the cops wanted a sample of your ammo !!

Done deal...........

 

[bigggbbruce]

I would make sure I had a second magazine or revolver loader with ...

Factory ammo, just in case the cops wanted a sample of your ammo !!

Done deal...........

Not sure of the charges, but they would be significant.

 

[Duckford]

There is a wide, massive, cavernous divide between people bulk reloading and slow reloading match grade ammunition. My handloaded centerfire rifle hunting loads have always been superior to factory, and match shooters often times reload their own ammunition. When people claim that handloads are inferior to factory, I wholeheartedly disagree, IF the handloader is doing a very slow, careful job. The truth is, the handloader has wide discretion over his quality control, worse than the factory if he's sloppy, and far better than any factory if he's careful. I'm meticulous, probably way to slow for a lot of purposes, but in the end I do gain quality. I may not push out 2,000 rounds of any type of ammunition in an afternoon, but I have complete faith in what I do load.

So, for the people trying to churn out ammo by the crateful in short amounts of time, probably not. For those who are very careful, you probably will outdo the factory. Only you know your practices, and in the end, you rely on your own work. Sometimes, you can be your own worst enemy.

As for the forensics, you should probably have a large supply of your self defense rounds in storage anyways, and you should have a ton on hand for regular practice. It would seem unlikely that someone would load just six rounds for self defense, never fire them to test them, and only have them loaded for the particular scenario. Also, if you are the kind of scaredy cat reloader who tends to stick to prescribed recipes, you could always at least attempt to hand whoever it concerns the exact method and components for the load for testing, at the very least.

In the end, only you are the final judge. If you are a cut the corner bulk reloader, probably not. As for me, I would not be hesitant to use my own reloads.

 

[BB57]

...The truth is, the handloader has wide discretion over his quality control, worse than the factory if he's sloppy, and far better than any factory if he's careful. I'm meticulous, probably way to slow for a lot of purposes, but in the end I do gain quality. I may not push out 2,000 rounds of any type of ammunition in an afternoon, but I have complete faith in what I do load.

In general I am amazed that factory ammo (rifle or pistol) does as well as it does. A manufacturer needs to develop loads that don't just perform well in one particular firearm or even one type of firearm, but rather in a very wide range of firearms chambered in that caliber. It's impressive that they can achieve that.

A major advantage of hand loading is being able to tailor a load to your particular firearm, and that can be a real advantage with some self defense handguns. For example, getting consistent velocity, accuracy and a lack of unburnt powder residue in a 3" .357 Magnum can be a challenge if you're limiting yourself to factory ammo.

Slower burning (for a handgun) colloidal ball powders are the norm in factory loaded .357 Magnum loads as most companies load for maximum velocity in a 4" to 6" barrel, and those powders have significant downsides in a 3" .357 Mag.

The ability to use a medium speed powder like Unique and trade maybe 100 fps in velocity for lower recoil (due to both lower velocity and lighter powder charge weight), lower muzzle flash, less powder residue, and much greater consistency is a real advantage with that revolver/caliber combination.

...Also, if you are the kind of scaredy cat reloader who tends to stick to prescribed recipes, you could always at least attempt to hand whoever it concerns the exact method and components for the load for testing, at the very least.

I print the entire recipe on the label for the self defense ammo, along with the average velocity in my handgun. Even if there were none left, the ballistician could replicate it and confirm the velocity. The reality though is that I usually load another 100 rounds when I get down to the last box of 50, so I almost always have between 40 and 150 rounds on hand in a box or boxes at home.

 

[kbm6893]

That's a serious problem. Better get closer than that.

2 extra grains under let's say 124gr 9mm.

You're right. I meant a couple tenths of a grain. I load .38 Special to 3.2 grains of red Dot. The recipe calls for between 3.0 and 3.4 for standard loads, and up to 3.8 for +p. I shoot for 3.2 (Red Dot doesn't meter that well), and will allow .1 grains either way.

 

[fredj338]

That's a serious problem. Better get closer than that.

2 extra grains under let's say 124gr 9mm.

Yeah no krap! Depending on powder & cartridge, 2gr off is enough to KB a gun.
The other issue with reloads is powder choice. Most sd ammo uses low flash powders. While some are available in canister form for the reloaders, not many choices. If I were loading my own sd ammo, I would choose once fired brass, you know it works. Hand weighing charges not necessary with most powders.
As far as practicing with your carry ammo, less important than just practicing. No diff between cheap ball ammo for practice & sim expensive jhp. As long as your poi is the same, how you practice is more important than what you practice with.

 

[scooter123]

BB57 makes and excellent point concerning the 357 Magnum. I recently acquired a 2 1/2 inch 1971 vintage model 19 and have found it to be one of my most enjoyable revolvers to shoot.

Concerns about damaging the forcing cone on this little gem has led me to develop some "off the chart" 357 Sub Magnums using Accurate #5 with either a 158 grain Hornady XTP or 140 grain FTX. I also managed to score a couple of boxes of the 135 grain short barrel Speer Gold Dot bullets on one of my scrounging missions to the Fin in Ashland, Ohio and have tested these bullets along with the loads featuring the Hornady bullets. The end result is a load that falls between the listed starting charge for 357 Magnum and the maximum charge for 38 +P in Accurate's load manual so the probable pressures should be in the mid to high 20 KSI range.

The end result is that I have some very clean shooting Magnum Lites that are somewhat soft shooting with a low flash profile and very very accurate. As a result of this I currently have 50 rounds of these sub Magnums loaded with the short barrel Gold Dots in my "just in case" stash and suspect they would make for a really superb SD round for use in one of the featherweight J frames. Sometime next summer I'll get out the chronograph and do some testing to see just what kind of energy these rounds are producing.

 

[fredj338]

If you can ever find any scooter, the 145gr wsthp is a terrific snub load. I run it in my m66 & sp101, but I am hoarding the rest of the only box I have.

 

[Calliope]

The only ammo I ever have is my handloads. So I guess by default I'm loading my own defensive ammo.

.45 auto because I can get good power with low noise and moderate recoil.

200 grain SWC because it's a proven all around design. 200 grain was also JMB's 1st choice in bullet weight for the .45 auto.

If I knew I was loading defensive ammo I would use my stash of nice CCI large primer brass, chances are though that you'll find me with small primer Blazer brass because I have a lot of small primers.

Bullseye powder because it's easy to ignite with any primer including small primers. Also Bullseye has a proven 100+ year track record.

Bullseye meters very reliably in my measure, and I weigh about 10%, I inspect each charge by eye before I seat a bullet, so I'm confident in my charges.

I've shot many thousands of SWCs in my HK45C without a hiccup, so I have no worries there.

It may not be the hottest load out there, but I feel pretty confident with it.

 

[Engineer1911]

This quite a p-contest and the puddle is getting bigger. I thought it was shot placement and stop the threat to you or your family.

Anything else is background static, pointless, or internet garbleing.

 

[Nevada Ed]

"Not sure of the charges, but they would be significant. "

Well how much would it be if I gave them a different gun......?? !!

You know, like a $199 blue light special , instead of a $450 weapon that one of the cops might find nice an think that I might not ever need again out of the evidence locker ?? !!

 

[mgrandick]

An interesting note. My handload .380 ammo has had quite a few ftf when I'm using the factory crimp die. Absolutely 0 when not factory crimping. I use factory ammo I'm just more confident that way.

 

[Squarebutt]

This topic pops up now and then, and the discussion sometimes gets heated. Good to see that it hasn't happened today. Everyone is free to choose his/her own firearm and ammo, and I won't criticize anyone else's choices. After careful consideration, I've decided to stay with factory loads in any of my guns that might need to be used in self defense. It's not a coincidence that my ammo is the same stuff that's issued by numerous law enforcement agencies.
I'm a careful reloader, and I wouldn't hesitate to use my own loads to defend against a dangerous wild animal, but most of them don't employ lawyers and scientists looking to send me to prison and take my last dollar.
The problem with going into a legal situation after using handloads, as has been pointed out, is that there is no database. You're the only witness to how it was assembled. Taking the stand to discuss your ammo opens you up to answering tough questions about any and every aspect of the case. If it comes from a factory, they can answer the questions. Most jurors won't be knowledgeable about ballistics, gunpowder or hand loading, and an opposing lawyer can make any kind of wild claim which you can't refute unless you take the stand. In most cases the subject of ballistics never comes up, but why chance it?
By the way, no offense intended, but anyone who thinks he can fool the ballistics scientists by using the same bullets and headstamps as the factory stuff needs to watch CSI more often. The guy or gal behind the microscope will see the difference very quickly, and destroy your credibility in front of the jury.

 

[fredj338]

The only ammo I ever have is my handloads. So I guess by default I'm loading my own defensive ammo.

.45 auto because I can get good power with low noise and moderate recoil.

200 grain SWC because it's a proven all around design. 200 grain was also JMB's 1st choice in bullet weight for the .45 auto.

If I knew I was loading defensive ammo I would use my stash of nice CCI large primer brass, chances are though that you'll find me with small primer Blazer brass because I have a lot of small primers.

Bullseye powder because it's easy to ignite with any primer including small primers. Also Bullseye has a proven 100+ year track record.

Bullseye meters very reliably in my measure, and I weigh about 10%, I inspect each charge by eye before I seat a bullet, so I'm confident in my charges.

I've shot many thousands of SWCs in my HK45C without a hiccup, so I have no worries there.

It may not be the hottest load out there, but I feel pretty confident with it.

Ever shoot that combo at night with a light???? Good luck. There are a lot of better choices for powders today, 21st century & all that.

 

[fredj338]

This quite a p-contest and the puddle is getting bigger. I thought it was shot placement and stop the threat to you or your family.

Anything else is background static, pointless, or internet garbleing.

Well it is until you are in the civil lawyers sights. Just be able to defend your choices. A good shoot is just that, but civil trials only need 51% to win a verdict, just sayin.

 

[Geo. T.]

Well!

It's been a couple of years since I quit giving the Texas CHL classes. The Texas DPS advised against using hand loads in your carry gun. The reasoning was that a lawyer could use the case that you whipped up these man killers and just couldn't wait to give them a try. Any way when the cost of ammo is considered it's a small % of the total. I use a hand load that shoots to the same point of impact as my carry ammo.

I watched live court coverage of a trial in George Town Texas where they used the fact that a mans wife used hollow points proved that she intended to kill him. Despite a restraining order he kicked her door in and was hitting her when she shot and killed him. The jury did not buy it but still you never know this day and sage! Geo. T.

 

[flyrobb]

There is a wide, massive, cavernous divide between people bulk reloading and slow reloading match grade ammunition. My handloaded centerfire rifle hunting loads have always been superior to factory, and match shooters often times reload their own ammunition. When people claim that handloads are inferior to factory, I wholeheartedly disagree, IF the handloader is doing a very slow, careful job. The truth is, the handloader has wide discretion over his quality control, worse than the factory if he's sloppy, and far better than any factory if he's careful. I'm meticulous, probably way to slow for a lot of purposes, but in the end I do gain quality. I may not push out 2,000 rounds of any type of ammunition in an afternoon, but I have complete faith in what I do load.

So, for the people trying to churn out ammo by the crateful in short amounts of time, probably not. For those who are very careful, you probably will outdo the factory. Only you know your practices, and in the end, you rely on your own work. Sometimes, you can be your own worst enemy.

In the end, only you are the final judge. If you are a cut the corner bulk reloader, probably not. As for me, I would not be hesitant to use my own reloads.

This really gets to the heart of my original thought process when I posted this. If by being "meticulous" in our loading and we can produce better that factory ammo, it would seem to make sense to do so. I do consider myself VERY picky about all things I do and hand loading is no different.

Lots of good posts (some off topic)and info to digest to make my decision whether or not I will carry hand loaded S.D. ammo. I am certainly going to make up some and try them at the range and go from there. If I produce loads I am confident with then I will consider the legalities of carrying them???

 

[springer99]

It's been a couple of years since I quit giving the Texas CHL classes. The Texas DPS advised against using hand loads in your carry gun. The reasoning was that a lawyer could use the case that you whipped up these man killers and just couldn't wait to give them a try. Any way when the cost of ammo is considered it's a small % of the total. I use a hand load that shoots to the same point of impact as my carry ammo.

I watched live court coverage of a trial in George Town Texas where they used the fact that a mans wife used hollow points proved that she intended to kill him. Despite a restraining order he kicked her door in and was hitting her when she shot and killed him. The jury did not buy it but still you never know this day and sage! Geo. T.

I guess the legal theory here was that if she had used only factory, Hi-velocity Defense or Zombie rounds, then she had only intended to scare him and that would have been acceptable? I have to laugh whenever this topic gets churned up again and again.

MAYBE if I tipped my reloads with Plutonium or Arsenic, that argument might make sense. Until then, I'll stick with my reloads that I know perform well. Hunted with them for years. BTW, they tend to be old-fashioned Keith-style, heavy LSWC and not the latest fashionable HP version of the day.

 

[BB57]

It's been a couple of years since I quit giving the Texas CHL classes. The Texas DPS advised against using hand loads in your carry gun. The reasoning was that a lawyer could use the case that you whipped up these man killers and just couldn't wait to give them a try..../

/...I watched live court coverage of a trial in George Town Texas where they used the fact that a mans wife used hollow points proved that she intended to kill him. Despite a restraining order he kicked her door in and was hitting her when she shot and killed him. The jury did not buy it but still you never know this day and sage! Geo. T.

A civil lawyer can and will claim pretty much anything. I suspect if you use a top performing self defense load the lawyer will claim you bought those man killers and couldn't wait to give them a try.

Often, the advice is given to use the same ammo as the local police department, however once again a civil attorney will claim you bought the same man killers the police use and couldn't wait to give them a try.

If you shoot some one in self defense, you're probably going to get sued even if it was a legitimate case of self defense and what you were shooting will be irrelevant.

In my case, he'd have to figure out how to spin the fact that I use a hollow point that only expands to 1.5 times it's diameter, rather than 1.6 or 1.65 times their original diameter, and why the velocity of my loads is about 100 fps less than is the case with many self defense loads of the same weight.

 

[flyrobb]

It's been a couple of years since I quit giving the Texas CHL classes. The Texas DPS advised against using hand loads in your carry gun. The reasoning was that a lawyer could use the case that you whipped up these man killers and just couldn't wait to give them a try. Geo. T.

Ok, as the OP'er I shouldn't be going off topic on my own thread but this one puzzles me. Why couldn't a lawyer use the case that you pulled into the local guns store and bought a box of Critical Defense hollow point man killers and couldn't wait to give them a try. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Dang, you guys above beat me to it