He what? Are we just making things up at random now?
Has the Scout Rifle Outlived it's Hey Day?
- Thread starter Shrek Of The Arctic
- Start date
He what? Are we just making things up at random now?
Read G&A along with Shooting Times, etc. when I was a student. Enjoyed the articles. Closest I ever came to a Scout rifle was to think about a Remington Model 7 chambered in 7mm-08. Never could afford it, so forgot about it. Later, graduated, could afford surplus rifles. Decided that a plain Jane Springfield 03-A3 was about all I needed for hunting or whatever. Occasionally borrowed rifles from my brother, but kept coming back to the Springfield. Few years ago, finally had to accept I could no longer ethically hunt deer w/ iron sights. Found a 03-A3 w/ bent bolt. Had it D/T. Keeps five shots at MOA or under. Not heavy. Still can carry it anywhere all day. Never have to wonder if it will work. If I'd been thinking, I'd have found an action and set it up for in military form w/ a commercial barrel and a forward mounted scope. That would have allowed clip loading, etc. Oh well. If I again get to go deer hunting, I will just make due with that faux 03-A4. But, then again, if I ever see a Rem. Model 7 ... well, I can dream. Sincerely. bruce.
Scout Rifle
I have an original Steyr Scout in 308, traditionally mounted Khales 1.1 X 4.5 X 20mm, 30mm tube. It is light enough to carry and heavy enough to absorb recoil. It is an ideal rifle for hunting out of a box blind. (as I enter my 80th year the box blind is more and more my style of hunting). It shoots smaller groups than I am capable of. I zeroed the rifle years ago with 168 Grain Hornady ammo and have never had turret caps off since.The trigger out of the box is light and crisp. I have no need for magazines that will accommodate a full box of shells. As a general purpose weapon it has no short comings. If elk or bear or plains game is on the menu, I have more suitable calibers but in a pinch the Scout will serve.
I have an original Steyr Scout in 308, traditionally mounted Khales 1.1 X 4.5 X 20mm, 30mm tube. It is light enough to carry and heavy enough to absorb recoil. It is an ideal rifle for hunting out of a box blind. (as I enter my 80th year the box blind is more and more my style of hunting). It shoots smaller groups than I am capable of. I zeroed the rifle years ago with 168 Grain Hornady ammo and have never had turret caps off since.The trigger out of the box is light and crisp. I have no need for magazines that will accommodate a full box of shells. As a general purpose weapon it has no short comings. If elk or bear or plains game is on the menu, I have more suitable calibers but in a pinch the Scout will serve.
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LVSteve
Member
As an aside, why is it that nobody can spell Steyr? 
Cotis
Member
Yes, I feel the scout rifle has outlived its heyday. Especially the “scout” scope concept. It does nothing well with serious limitations in several scenarios (sun into or behind you, precise shots at distance). And I own a Steyr Scout .308, but pulled the scout scope years ago for a conventional setup.
Something like a Ruger SFAR makes it obsolete.
Something like a Ruger SFAR makes it obsolete.
That's the problem with the original concept. I'm not sure why anyone would even consider one. There are a few light weight bolt rifles out there that use magazines, so the stripper clip is obsolete. So is the long eye relief scope although they can still be sourced because occasionally people buy those for..... scout rifles. Blind and floor plate magazines, although many exist, are last century rifles. I have one so I know why a scout rifle would be an advantage if someone were actually shooting at you.
Cavalry Scouts use their special training to obtain, distribute, and share vital combat and battlefield intelligence on the enemy and on combat circumstances and environmental conditions. The Cavalry Scout is also known as the "eyes and ears" of the Army.
Cooper lived in a world without drones watching the enemies movements. So he only knew the Army tactics of his time.
The concept isn't applicable to todays light weight bolt rifles with composite stocks. The Ruger Ranch bolt rifle weighs 6.8 lbs. Put a dot on it and it weighs even less than a scoped rifle.
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Ah, yes, the Model 7. What a delightful little lightweight rifle. One of my great mistakes was letting one go that I bought for my daughter. When it became obvious she would not be the hunting type, I thought I could use the money better elsewhere. I did. I bought her a very nice 1911 .45 Auto, which she enjoys and is proficient with for informal target shooting, but I should have kept the Model 7, too. Nicely checkered, pretty, well shaped, dark colored walnut stock with cute schnabel forearm, short barrel with serviceable, if not ideal, iron sights, trim and very light - and in .260 Remington caliber. (Not a .308, but a decent caliber for a handloader, and especially for a lady, or a recoil sensitive shooter.) A foolish mistake in the extreme.
Realizing my error, later I replaced the .260 with a 7KS in .308, for my own use, and I still have it, but it is not the delight the wood stocked Model 7 was. It has a receiver mounted Leupold VX-2 1-4x scope. Will shoot almost any .308 ammo into 1.5” at 100 yards, often a bit better. In my opinion, it’s less of a burden to carry than the Steyr, even with the receiver mounted scope, and maybe faster to bring into action. I have no reason to be overly concerned about the reliability of the Remington action, though the rear guard screw could be improved. The scope is secured by a Pilkington rear lever, for quick detach if damaged, but the design does not permit reliable return to precise zero in reinstall without verification. I doubt Mr. Cooper would be satisfied with my 7KS, but I also doubt he would deny its handiness.
Jeff has been gone now for 18+ years. In the present crop of writers, I don’t see that anyone has come along to fill in the void, and it seems obvious none of them are interested in trying.
Scooter1942
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I've always been intrigued with the concept. Back in the day, some 20+ years ago, I bought a Savage Scout in 7mm-08. Great little rifle. I only ever shot paper but found it to be accurate and handy. I simply couldn't afford a Steyr Scout, but always thought they were cool
Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago. Cabela's had purchased a lot of Steyr Scouts in 6.5 Creedmoor. They were marked down to $1199. I watched over several months as they started to thin out and then a couple of weeks ago they dropped to $999. Then discovered that for members aka people who have a Cabela's Card that on Monday's between now and Memorial Day you could stack a 10% discount with the 5% military discount, plus bonus bucks or whatever. Long story short, I managed to get one for only $830. At that price, I don't really care if it has outlived its usefulness!
I plopped a Leupold FXII 6x36 in the conventional scope mount spot and took it to the range yesterday for an initial zero.
10 shots inside .46" at 50 yards with 130 Berger's. I'll load up some more and stretch it out in the weeks ahead.
Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago. Cabela's had purchased a lot of Steyr Scouts in 6.5 Creedmoor. They were marked down to $1199. I watched over several months as they started to thin out and then a couple of weeks ago they dropped to $999. Then discovered that for members aka people who have a Cabela's Card that on Monday's between now and Memorial Day you could stack a 10% discount with the 5% military discount, plus bonus bucks or whatever. Long story short, I managed to get one for only $830. At that price, I don't really care if it has outlived its usefulness!
I plopped a Leupold FXII 6x36 in the conventional scope mount spot and took it to the range yesterday for an initial zero.
10 shots inside .46" at 50 yards with 130 Berger's. I'll load up some more and stretch it out in the weeks ahead.
I’ve got a (JM) Marlin 336D “Guide Gun” in .35 Remington. It’s got a 18.5” ported barrel and straight stock. It’s really a ‘scout rifle’ set up. Nice gun, I believe Marlin only made 1,000 of these “Guide Guns.” My understanding is that they’re pretty sought after my Marlin collectors…
The modern Steyr Scouts seem to be uniformly good shooters, from the accounts I’ve heard. A light, handy, reliable rifle that is accurate and is chambered for a reasonably powerful cartridge can hardly “outlive it’s usefulness.” It will still be useful generations from now, maybe just not the height of fashion. Congratulations on your new Scout.
Someone mentioned earlier that the .358 Winchester cartridge would seem ideal for a modern day “Lion Scout.” I had not thought of that but it would certainly get my attention if Steyr would offer it. I doubt the idea would attract their attention, though it should. Leads one to wonder if that shouldn’t be a “rifle project” for the future…
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Precisely. If you don't know the connections between Nordicism and the Nazi's you are not keeping up with your history.
Like your Avatar by the way
Cooper was one of those guys who alluded that he was in combat and involved secret ops. So secret there is no record of them. He found a scam with his infatuation with the 1911. The scout rifle was no different. How many guys that were hunters before Cooper hit the gun rags ran out and bought a scout rifle rig? The wanna bee crowd is who bought them.
He ain’t the only one. All kinds of that in gun writer crowd. I think some landed the job before they ever shot a gun. The old writers and experts actually lived the life of guns and hunting. Guys like Elmer might spin a tale tale or two, but Hell they were there!
He ain’t the only one. All kinds of that in gun writer crowd. I think some landed the job before they ever shot a gun. The old writers and experts actually lived the life of guns and hunting. Guys like Elmer might spin a tale tale or two, but Hell they were there!
OP
Shrek Of The Arctic
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The negativity that seems to be following Col. Cooper is truly remarkable to me. To read several comments here, he was nothing more than an ethically challenged, obstinate snake oil salesman.
To my way of thinking, he is the Father of the modern pistol technique. The arms qualification for pistol, shotgun, and patrol carbine in the state of Alaska law enforcement remain strongly based upon the teachings of Jeff Cooper and Gunsite. Not to come off as being braggadocious, but we aquit ourselves purty well in the real. Of weapon handling.
That's not to say I'm a hardcore cult follower of Mr. Cooper. For example, I wish we could move away from his color code and consider transitional spaces to a greater degree. I complety see that he may have been a bloviating *****. That being said I would have loved to attend a class with him. I just...might not have wanted to hang out afterwards to bask in his awesomeness.
As far as the Scout Rifle itself...The cynic could say it could be argued that the scout rifle concept has existed since the first guy cut the barrel down on his musket, thereby nullifying every major facet of the scout rifle short of the long eye relief scope.
The advocate could say it has indeed evolved. Oversize bolt handles, hellbent for stout LPVO scopes with a comfortable eye relief, detachable magazines, carbon fiber barrels, stocks, etc. There are alot of incredible ways that the intentions of the scout rifle concept are met and exceeded in the world we live in. And even going back a few years the Remington 600, 660, 673, Model 7, Model 788, 700 Mountain Gun. Winchester 70 Featherweight, etc. Checked many boxes with aplomb.
If a deal on a...scout rifle...pseudo scout rifle, etc. I'd be interested.
If a deal comes along on a decent carbine with the right scope, dot, etc. I'd take that too.
I honestly feel that the scout rifle concept as presented by Jeff Cooper is misunderstood by many. The concept of a light, handy mid size rifle however is understood by nearly all.
To my way of thinking, he is the Father of the modern pistol technique. The arms qualification for pistol, shotgun, and patrol carbine in the state of Alaska law enforcement remain strongly based upon the teachings of Jeff Cooper and Gunsite. Not to come off as being braggadocious, but we aquit ourselves purty well in the real. Of weapon handling.
That's not to say I'm a hardcore cult follower of Mr. Cooper. For example, I wish we could move away from his color code and consider transitional spaces to a greater degree. I complety see that he may have been a bloviating *****. That being said I would have loved to attend a class with him. I just...might not have wanted to hang out afterwards to bask in his awesomeness.
As far as the Scout Rifle itself...The cynic could say it could be argued that the scout rifle concept has existed since the first guy cut the barrel down on his musket, thereby nullifying every major facet of the scout rifle short of the long eye relief scope.
The advocate could say it has indeed evolved. Oversize bolt handles, hellbent for stout LPVO scopes with a comfortable eye relief, detachable magazines, carbon fiber barrels, stocks, etc. There are alot of incredible ways that the intentions of the scout rifle concept are met and exceeded in the world we live in. And even going back a few years the Remington 600, 660, 673, Model 7, Model 788, 700 Mountain Gun. Winchester 70 Featherweight, etc. Checked many boxes with aplomb.
If a deal on a...scout rifle...pseudo scout rifle, etc. I'd be interested.
If a deal comes along on a decent carbine with the right scope, dot, etc. I'd take that too.
I honestly feel that the scout rifle concept as presented by Jeff Cooper is misunderstood by many. The concept of a light, handy mid size rifle however is understood by nearly all.
I too am amazed by some of the comments on here about Col. Cooper. No, I'm not a cult follower of his (there are too many cults in this country as it is) but I always enjoyed his G&A columns, and his books are a pleasure to read. The mark of a true wordsmith is someone who can write about a subject you're not interested in, and draw and keep your attention...and Jeff Cooper certainly could do that.
I've owned a Steyr Scout Rifle for years, and I would respectfully urge those who don't "get" the concept, or who think the only thing noteworthy about a Scout is the scope, to spend some time shooting a Steyr Scout.
The first thing I think you'd notice is that the Steyr Scout is ergonomically perfect. It's light, feels good when you shoulder it, and points very naturally. The length of pull is adjustable via the spacers on the buttstock. The idea of a forward-mounted scope is counter-intuitive, but works perfectly. The design is very clever, from the Ching Sling to the spare magazine storage in the buttstock, to the built-in bipod (the only potentially weak point of the rifle, IMO). The accuracy is superb.
No, it's not a hunting rifle. And it's not a target rifle. And it's not a SHTF para-military rifle. But if can function in those roles, if need be. I concede that it was Jeff Cooper's vanity project, and that he apparently had a -- ahem! -- very healthy ego...but on the other hand, I don't think his creativeness can be denied...
I have a good selection of Remington 600s and 660s, 223, 6mm (2), 308, 6.5 Creedmore (rebarreled) and 350 magnum. Great rifles, Handy. News to me that they are "scout rifles"
LVSteve
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I agree with this entirely. I've only ever seen him on TV, and my impression of the man is that he could certainly shoot, but he was a little "off".
OP
Shrek Of The Arctic
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Seems to me that they're your guns. You get to refer to them however you care to. If it were me, I'd simply consider that they all pretty much achieve the same task at the end of the day, and be thankful for the choices available to us all.
I like the Scout idea with its practicality and absolutely support the forward mounted scope if for no other reason than to avoid getting 32 stitches in the eyebrow because you were too close to the standard mounted scope.
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"32" is an oddly specific number of stitches!
I liked reading his stuff, but never took him too seriously. I always figured at some point we'd be sending a group of special forces upriver to capture him, with Ride of the Valkyries playing in the background . . .
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