Has your income kept up?

[feralmerril]

I might be wrong but in these days it looks like working for the federal goverment is the best for benifits and pay. Next to that various other levels of state, county and city goverments. Out in the private sector the largest corporations have did a turn around. I retired from lockheed aircraft. Since I worked there they have chopped benifits on everything. While I was there it started. They hired part time guards to take our overtime. They put caps on wages, took away a lot of bennies etc. Before the large corporations it was all the smaller grocery stores and resturants etc that started cutting back on the hours of full time employees so they werent considered full time and they didnt have to buy them health insurance etc. It wasnt always that way. Many years ago goverment jobs paid lower and corporate paid better.
I can see why someone wants to be a leo or firefighter now days as I dont belive there are even a few corporate jobs that can begin to match the retirement, medical ins, stability and wages in the secular world. I am not talking about a tiny community or village constable here but the larger citys and populated countys. I hear about teachers etc that they cant even be fired! When one does get their breast in the wringer you hear that they are suspended, but STILL GET FULL PAY! What a deal!
Everyones situation is different. Location can make the same house cost $80,000 in one area and $300,000 in another. Here the going waitress wage is $2.13 a hour plus tips. Probley some couples work two jobs apiece to hold things together yet live next door to people that know how to work the system and dont work at all! Its a lop sided world!
Just before I retired in 2,000 I was single. I think my medical was around $25 a week roughly. Now for my wife, I pay over $700 a month, and supposedly it would be even more if lockheed wasnt paying part of it!
The foremost first thing ruining this country is medical expenses and insurance. Thats for a number of reasons. People seeing the doctor for next to nothing wrong with them, the welfare and hospitals paying for indigents and illegals, the pharmacys and all medical personnal thinking they deserve a fortune etc. All the pork and special intrest groups and programs would be next. Right now we see where the IRS has been partying away many millions of dollars. Money means nothing to them.
It cant continue this way a lot longer.

 

[tops]

Correct! Larry

 

[USAF385]

Now of course $12 an hour is poverty.


.

$12 an hour makes you rich! That's almost $25,000.... Well... According to the government that's waaaay above poverty.

The 2013 poverty guidelines has $11,490 for one person being the poverty line. It seems like it should be higher to me. That would be $5.50 an hour if someone was working 40 hours a week. Yikes. At minimum wage that's about 30 hours a week to get to $11,490.

$15,510 for two people is the poverty line.

 

[smokindog]

For those of you old enough to remember, it was back in the late 70's and early 80's that the discussion of "attracting the good people to the government" and "pay like the private sector" and "Unionized public sector" really took hold. MANY of us saw the beginning of the end. The public sector was NEVER supposed to compete with the private sector, that's why it's public SERVICE! As soon as there was incentive to leave the private sector that inovates and raises its own capital to the public sector that stagnates and takes capital from the private sector, the economic engine would begin to stall. Well we're in down right clogged air filter mode these days. I've got to shell out probably $20-$25K to support the retirement of my public sector friends in the form of taxes/living fees before I can have my first dollar of retirement income. This doesn't include sales and other consumption taxes as I spend my left overs! How does one retire in that world?

I might be wrong but in these days it looks like working for the federal goverment is the best for benifits and pay. Next to that various other levels of state, county and city goverments. Out in the private sector the largest corporations have did a turn around. I retired from lockheed aircraft. Since I worked there they have chopped benifits on everything. While I was there it started. They hired part time guards to take our overtime. They put caps on wages, took away a lot of bennies etc. Before the large corporations it was all the smaller grocery stores and resturants etc that started cutting back on the hours of full time employees so they werent considered full time and they didnt have to buy them health insurance etc. It wasnt always that way. Many years ago goverment jobs paid lower and corporate paid better.
I can see why someone wants to be a leo or firefighter now days as I dont belive there are even a few corporate jobs that can begin to match the retirement, medical ins, stability and wages in the secular world. I am not talking about a tiny community or village constable here but the larger citys and populated countys. I hear about teachers etc that they cant even be fired! When one does get their breast in the wringer you hear that they are suspended, but STILL GET FULL PAY! What a deal!
Everyones situation is different. Location can make the same house cost $80,000 in one area and $300,000 in another. Here the going waitress wage is $2.13 a hour plus tips. Probley some couples work two jobs apiece to hold things together yet live next door to people that know how to work the system and dont work at all! Its a lop sided world!
Just before I retired in 2,000 I was single. I think my medical was around $25 a week roughly. Now for my wife, I pay over $700 a month, and supposedly it would be even more if lockheed wasnt paying part of it!
The foremost first thing ruining this country is medical expenses and insurance. Thats for a number of reasons. People seeing the doctor for next to nothing wrong with them, the welfare and hospitals paying for indigents and illegals, the pharmacys and all medical personnal thinking they deserve a fortune etc. All the pork and special intrest groups and programs would be next. Right now we see where the IRS has been partying away many millions of dollars. Money means nothing to them.
It cant continue this way a lot longer.

 

[carpriver]

In 67 I was an e-2 in the Air Force bring in $97.00 a month. 1164 a year. In December 1967 I took my senior trip to south east asia. still and e-2 my pay jumped, $15.00 overseas pay, $67.00 a month hazard duty pay, $ 30.00 per month TDY pay, $77.10 non viability of rations and quarter's. a total of $247 a month. I am now retired, by income has dropped $10 grand a year. Our standard of living didn't chance that much because we were spending that much a year to work; gas, meals, continuing education, professional licenses, journals. Since 67 I have seen my income go up yearly.

 

[old bear]

I've been very lucky; my income not only has kept up but has grown over the last few years. I also have every reason to expect that trend to continue. It helps that the Lovely and Charming and I don't lead an extravagant life, very comfortable but not outlandish.

I'm really worried about the future of our country, the American dream as our parents and many of us knew it, is on life support and the prognoses is not looking to good right now either. Job security is a thing of the past; employee/employer loyalty is almost nonexistent, interest rates are down, and consumer pricing is up across the board.

I personally know of two instances of corporate mid-management types whose base salary is right at $200,000.00 annually both have the time in to retire but don't feel that they can as both have college age children who need their support.

It's a sad state of affairs and I don't see any improvements coming along any time soon.

 

[51plymouth]

I look at how long does it take to buy something. In 1973 I bought a new pickup for six months wages, in 2005 another new pickup for six months wages. How many hours does it take to buy a pair of shoes etc. I have been fortunate that my income has pertty much kept up with inflation.
My worry is for the younger folks, their incomes are dropping, and with fewer jobs to be had they are having a hard time.

 

[BigBill]

I can't complain. Right now I'm making the same income I made before my retirement. I had a blue collar job with the corporate benefits. I had there 401k benefits. I slammed my 401k savings plan. For many years. Now if the social security yearly raises would be happening on a regular basis it could be better.

I lost my job in '83, I worked only 3 months in '84 before being let go again, I worked only 3 months in '85, and again worked only 3 months in '86. I lived on 10k for each year. I went to the local grocer on Thursdays for marked down meats. We had 100 tomato plants in the garden plus veggies. If you take a jar of tomatoes, a pound of ground beef(meat
Sauce) with a pound of pasta and some home made garlic bread we had a good meal that's cheap. We learned to live in a very affordable way. We made it thru the bad times. Now when things got better we still lived in the affordable manner. Spending just enough to live on. Even today 25 years later I still buy marked down meats and what's on sale too. We still can tomatoes and live off the fresh veggies from the garden too. My kids are grown and very healthy too. We try by to eat food with chemicals in it when we can too. I do not spray my fruit trees too. As a kid we would cut off the part where the bad spots on the fruit were and eat the rest. Any worm holes we would cut that out too. Overall still live on just 10k on average today. Once you see how to cut corners and still live good your hooked on it.

I pound of fresh string beans, a stick of pepperoni sliced thin, cooked in tomato sauce with some fresh garlic bread is another good meal too.

You would be surprised how little you can live on.

 

[spoon22]

As a 21 year old, I can safely say that lots of people my age will never retire. Ive already began investing for retirement, hopefully that works out

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Cal44]

As a 21 year old, I can safely say that lots of people my age will never retire. Ive already began investing for retirement, hopefully that works out

Great on starting to invest at a young age.

I graduated from UC Berkeley with a MS in electrical engineering and computer science in 1973.

Went to work for IBM and was able to buy a condo in Silicon Valley two years later.

I know some young engineers with similar college degrees to mine who graduated in the last few years.

One guy, now 25, the son of one of my college friends now works for Microsoft as an engineer and bought a house at age 25 just as I did in 1975.

He makes about 7-8 times what I did when I was his age.

So, if you have an advanced education in an in-demand field you have kept up and done quite well.

The problem is, our economy no longer provides much opportunity for people with only a high school deploma or with a degree in some "useless" field like History or English.

Everyone in the US now days competes with Chinese workers who are willing to work for much less money.

The only way to prosper is to be ahead of them in skills.

Dave

 

[Faulkner]

I was fortunate enough to partner in a startup company that took off and then sell my part at a hefty profit. Took the proceeds and spread them out in diversified investments which have grown handily in the long run. If it weren't for that, I could not live the lifestyle we do on a cops pay.

We also grow a lot of our own food. Canning your own vegitables, making your own jams and jellies, and butchering a hog and beef is not that hard to do and it saves trips to the grocery store. Through in a couple of whitetail deer each winter and and a mess of catfish and crappie in the spring and the freezer stays pretty full.

I approach my retirement years with the attitude that I will not see a dime of social security.

 

[model70hunter]

Income? Are your referring to the little bit of coinage that is left after Sheriff John takes his part and just before you hand it over to others? If so, my income has kept pace but I feel I have less overall purchasing power.

The difference is my wife is an RN, If we would have had to make it on my middle level exec income there would not have been as many perks, vacations, extra guns etc.

 

[wildenout]

You know, I am glad you posted about this topic. I heard a while back after things went to pot that my generation (I think they are calling us generation Y I am 25) will be the first generation who will not do better than our parents. Now that is most definitely going to be true for me, my dad did do pretty well for himself (lol still does too well he is a bankruptcy lawyer in Vegas). I am heading into the 2 year of my graduate degree, I managed to skate through my undergrad somehow without debt as did my wife (smarty pants full rides lady, finished a degree in 2 years) but now we are taking on a little.
Anywho, if that is true and wages are already suppressed where we live, since it is Utah and the economy is flooded with higher education to the point where laywers work for minimum wage. And if things do keep going up, I really don't know what I should do? I wanted to go on to get a doctorate, but I am half tempted to finish my Master's, get a 9-5 (if one is to be had) sit on my house for a long while (2 bedroom condo) and then rent it out. I just dunno?
I fear for my financial future, which is something someone my age should never have to say. We recently had a kid (as some may know) and I can't even begin to figure out what half the stuff we were charged for was! Let alone how ridiculous the bills have been. I just don't know, and it is hard to speak to your elders and get the same answer "I just don't know." I never planned on being wealthy mind you, I am going to be a research scientist probably with the background I have in Microbiology and the degrees I'll have. But I always pictured myself being able to own a nice house, go on a nice vacation once in a while, camp on the weekends, and the most lavish I got is the fact that I do want a boat to go to the lake.
Uncertainty is abound, I am just grateful that my wife has the job that she does, and the insurance that she does

 

[A10]

I was a paperboy in 1967 and lucky to Lear forty bucks a month. I do better than that now.

 

[dentkimterry]

A few years back I was on my unions negotiating comittee and put together these facts. When I started in the trade in 1974 a journeyman made $10 an hour. That year I bought a nice 3 bedroom house on 1/2 acre lot for $20,000. I also bought a new truck for $3000. Now jet ahead 35 years. That tradesman now makes $30 an hour. That's 3 times the wage when I started. So a new house should be 3 times or $60,000 right? That truck should be 3 times or $9000 right? Guess what? It's not! That same house is now $120,000. That same truck is $25,000. Yes my friends wages have not kept up with costs.

 

[Mike7.62]

Actually the over all increase is more like 10 to 12 times the mid-1960 prices. A car that cost 2500 in 1965 now costs 30,000 plus. Gas in the mid-1960s ranged from 19 cents to 26 cents a gallon for regular, depending on if it was on sale or not. Today it is in the $3.25 to $4.00 range. Precious metals like gold and silver which are the best indicators of real inflation are more like 20 times the 1960 prices. A coke from a vending machine was 6 cents for a 6 oz and 10 cents for a 10 ounce give or take. Today it ranges from $1.00 to $2.00 depending on where the machine is located.

A pair of Levis was $3.99 a pair and today that same pair of Levis is $25.00 to $35.00 depending on style and location. Sugar was 5 cents for a 5 pound bag, and God only knows what it is selling for today. Milk was about 25 cents per gallon and today it is over $3.00.

Anything that actually shows the real inflation rate is dropped from the items the federal government uses to establish inflation.

Working men and women's salaries have generally not kept pace with inflation for a long time. Professional and executive salaries have often exceeded inflation.

In recent years Social Security has fallen way behind actual inflation rates, despite the law that requires SS to keep pace with inflation. Falsified and cherry picked data is used to cheat retirees out of billions every year. Then it is wasted on foreign aid and benefits to illegal aliens.

This is absolutely correct. The CPI stats have been "realigned" twice in the last 35 years, once in 1981 with "owners equivalent rent", and again in 1995 with three biggies, geometric v. arithmetic averaging of the basket of goods being compared, substitution of items that become too expensive with items less so, e.g. ground beef for sirloin steak, and three, hedonic weighting, where a good that becomes more efficient or safer is "weighted" as costing the same or less, even though in reality it costs more. Automobiles, computers etc, fall into this category.

All of these "improvements" were done by the Boskin Commission at the urging of Robert Rubin (SecTreas-Clinton) and Alan Greenscam (Chairman Federal Reserve) in 1995. The primary reason that the "improvements" were made was to keep the COLA's paid to SS recipients and .mil/civil service retirees less, and to keep the deflator for GDP statistics lower.

To top it all off, Congress is considering other alteration to the CPI in order to make it seem even smaller than it is now. If you want real inflation stats, go here:

Shadow Government Statistics - Home Page

It's a site run by a Princeton economist that calculates the CPI, unemployment, and debt statistics the way they were before all of the statistical mummery was introduced. Prepare to be shocked at the differences between the official numbers and the real numbers.

 

[El Bombardero]

This is absolutely correct. The CPI stats have been "realigned" twice in the last 35 years, once in 1981 with "owners equivalent rent", and again in 1995 with three biggies, geometric v. arithmetic averaging of the basket of goods being compared, substitution of items that become too expensive with items less so, e.g. ground beef for sirloin steak, and three, hedonic weighting, where a good that becomes more efficient or safer is "weighted" as costing the same or less, even though in reality it costs more. Automobiles, computers etc, fall into this category.

All of these "improvements" were done by the Boskin Commission at the urging of Robert Rubin (SecTreas-Clinton) and Alan Greenscam (Chairman Federal Reserve) in 1995. The primary reason that the "improvements" were made was to keep the COLA's paid to SS recipients and .mil/civil service retirees less, and to keep the deflator for GDP statistics lower.

To top it all off, Congress is considering other alteration to the CPI in order to make it seem even smaller than it is now. If you want real inflation stats, go here:

Shadow Government Statistics - Home Page

It's a site run by a Princeton economist that calculates the CPI, unemployment, and debt statistics the way they were before all of the statistical mummery was introduced. Prepare to be shocked at the differences between the official numbers and the real numbers.

No Agenda fan?


I've only been working since the mid 90's, but my 'career' experience follows what most of you have said. Started out making entry level money. Did ok for a little while, but cutbacks sliced up our cost of living increases, we took pay cuts and promotions were delayed or never happened.

I've seen the writing on the wall. This is not going to get better, only worse. I've decided to take a different path now altogether.

 

[Mike7.62]

You know, I am glad you posted about this topic. I heard a while back after things went to pot that my generation (I think they are calling us generation Y I am 25) will be the first generation who will not do better than our parents. Now that is most definitely going to be true for me, my dad did do pretty well for himself (lol still does too well he is a bankruptcy lawyer in Vegas). I am heading into the 2 year of my graduate degree, I managed to skate through my undergrad somehow without debt as did my wife (smarty pants full rides lady, finished a degree in 2 years) but now we are taking on a little.
Anywho, if that is true and wages are already suppressed where we live, since it is Utah and the economy is flooded with higher education to the point where laywers work for minimum wage. And if things do keep going up, I really don't know what I should do? I wanted to go on to get a doctorate, but I am half tempted to finish my Master's, get a 9-5 (if one is to be had) sit on my house for a long while (2 bedroom condo) and then rent it out. I just dunno?
I fear for my financial future, which is something someone my age should never have to say. We recently had a kid (as some may know) and I can't even begin to figure out what half the stuff we were charged for was! Let alone how ridiculous the bills have been. I just don't know, and it is hard to speak to your elders and get the same answer "I just don't know." I never planned on being wealthy mind you, I am going to be a research scientist probably with the background I have in Microbiology and the degrees I'll have. But I always pictured myself being able to own a nice house, go on a nice vacation once in a while, camp on the weekends, and the most lavish I got is the fact that I do want a boat to go to the lake.
Uncertainty is abound, I am just grateful that my wife has the job that she does, and the insurance that she does

My advice is to stay out of debt, pay off your house ASAP, and save in real bullion, not paper. Utah has become a gold/silver legal tender state with no taxation on purchase or sale, so it has some advantages for using bullion as a savings vehicle that other states discourage. Dollar cost average your purchases, i.e., every month the same amount, and stack it away in a safe in/around your house.

Gold and silver bullion has a few advantages, the primary being no counterparty risk if it is kept in your possession. That means real metal in your hands, and not a paper equivalent or bullion in an allocated or unallocated account, or in a safe deposit box. All of these are subject to counterparty risk, and negate the primary reason for holding bullion.

Another advantage of saving in precious metals is holding value through time. The cost of gasoline is a good example. As was related in another post, gas was between $.19 and $.26 per gallon in 1964. A gallon could usually be purchased for one quarter. That same pre 1965 quarter is worth $3.92 today. What's a gallon of gasoline today? Numerous examples abound in the maintenance of purchasing power with precious metals.

The normal "advice" that you will get from financial planners is to keep the majority of your savings in the stock market, especially at your age. In today's investing environment, which is more like a casino with insiders gaining advantage through high frequency trading and free money from the Federal Reserve, the retail investor is a fool for being in this market. After the 7th Circuit FCOA Sentinal v. BONY Mellon decision last year, and the new "bail in" paradigm introduced by the ECB in Cypress, and agreed to by most western countries as the way that SIFI's (Systemically Important Financial Institutions) will be saved in the future, nothing that you have in the bank or any financial instrument is yours. It is the bank's, or the clearing house's to do with as they please. They can hypothecate and rehypothecate "your" money and use it as collateral for their proprietary trading, and if they lose it, you're last in line to get it back. Don't believe me? Look up the aforementioned Sentinal case, the Dodd-Frank Title II in reference to SIFI's, and the BIS (Bank for International Settlements) paper on the same. Bottom line is that what you think is yours, isn't, as long as it remains in the system. If the sytem remains solvent, then you likely won't have a problem, but the debt metrics and the financial crime and fraud that have been rampant the last 10 to 20 years should give you pause on where and how you place the fruits of your labor.

Sorry for the long post, but some things need to be addressed and this thread is one that invites it.

 

[Mike7.62]

No Agenda fan?

No, just someone with a degree in Econ, who knows what a fraud I was taught (Keynesian Econ) and decided to study Austrian school and found it to have the answers.

 

[feralmerril]

I retired january of 2,000. I am not getting a 1/3 of what I earned in my later working years. The differance is I shuffled everything around where I am debt free. I paid child support almost up to retirement. I was makeing good money but couldnt eat on the traditional 40 hours a week and was forced to work 60 to 70 hours to live. Thank God the OT most always was available to me. That was a self consuming fire. The more I made the taxs seemed to triple! The one lone thing I did right in my working years was to fully fund my 401K. I looked at that and said what the heck am I doing haveing to live at work just to eat when I could retire, pay off the house with part of the 401k and have a life! I retired with the idea of loafing untill towards the end of the year, take truck driveing school and traveling and getting paid for it starting in 2001. I was single, GF had died and I no longer was paying supports.
So much for plans. 3 months later in march I lost over a 1/3 to half of the 401 in the big crash! In july I got T boned by a drunk and it caused me to later get a pulmanary embolisim and that stopped the truck driveing idea. By less than the end of the year my 401k was less than half, I found I couldnt work at truck driveing etc. Then I got another GF (that died of cancer within 3 years), dad came down with alzheimers and I had to go to wisconsin to take care of him. So much for plans! Maybe plans work for some of you but for me my plans were worse than laughable! "Stuff" happens.
I thought I would never marry again. But soon I did. Not only that but theresa is almost 17 years younger than me but not in the best of health. So I have to now plan so she can get by when I likely die before her. Right now I am nursing her.
My plans? I havent any. I just have learned to trust God. We get by.