Has your income kept up?

[Faulkner]

I was fortunate enough to partner in a startup company that took off and then sell my part at a hefty profit. Took the proceeds and spread them out in diversified investments which have grown handily in the long run. If it weren't for that, I could not live the lifestyle we do on a cops pay.

We also grow a lot of our own food. Canning your own vegitables, making your own jams and jellies, and butchering a hog and beef is not that hard to do and it saves trips to the grocery store. Through in a couple of whitetail deer each winter and and a mess of catfish and crappie in the spring and the freezer stays pretty full.

I approach my retirement years with the attitude that I will not see a dime of social security.

 

[model70hunter]

Income? Are your referring to the little bit of coinage that is left after Sheriff John takes his part and just before you hand it over to others? If so, my income has kept pace but I feel I have less overall purchasing power.

The difference is my wife is an RN, If we would have had to make it on my middle level exec income there would not have been as many perks, vacations, extra guns etc.

 

[wildenout]

You know, I am glad you posted about this topic. I heard a while back after things went to pot that my generation (I think they are calling us generation Y I am 25) will be the first generation who will not do better than our parents. Now that is most definitely going to be true for me, my dad did do pretty well for himself (lol still does too well he is a bankruptcy lawyer in Vegas). I am heading into the 2 year of my graduate degree, I managed to skate through my undergrad somehow without debt as did my wife (smarty pants full rides lady, finished a degree in 2 years) but now we are taking on a little.
Anywho, if that is true and wages are already suppressed where we live, since it is Utah and the economy is flooded with higher education to the point where laywers work for minimum wage. And if things do keep going up, I really don't know what I should do? I wanted to go on to get a doctorate, but I am half tempted to finish my Master's, get a 9-5 (if one is to be had) sit on my house for a long while (2 bedroom condo) and then rent it out. I just dunno?
I fear for my financial future, which is something someone my age should never have to say. We recently had a kid (as some may know) and I can't even begin to figure out what half the stuff we were charged for was! Let alone how ridiculous the bills have been. I just don't know, and it is hard to speak to your elders and get the same answer "I just don't know." I never planned on being wealthy mind you, I am going to be a research scientist probably with the background I have in Microbiology and the degrees I'll have. But I always pictured myself being able to own a nice house, go on a nice vacation once in a while, camp on the weekends, and the most lavish I got is the fact that I do want a boat to go to the lake.
Uncertainty is abound, I am just grateful that my wife has the job that she does, and the insurance that she does

 

[A10]

I was a paperboy in 1967 and lucky to Lear forty bucks a month. I do better than that now.

 

[dentkimterry]

A few years back I was on my unions negotiating comittee and put together these facts. When I started in the trade in 1974 a journeyman made $10 an hour. That year I bought a nice 3 bedroom house on 1/2 acre lot for $20,000. I also bought a new truck for $3000. Now jet ahead 35 years. That tradesman now makes $30 an hour. That's 3 times the wage when I started. So a new house should be 3 times or $60,000 right? That truck should be 3 times or $9000 right? Guess what? It's not! That same house is now $120,000. That same truck is $25,000. Yes my friends wages have not kept up with costs.

 

[Mike7.62]

Actually the over all increase is more like 10 to 12 times the mid-1960 prices. A car that cost 2500 in 1965 now costs 30,000 plus. Gas in the mid-1960s ranged from 19 cents to 26 cents a gallon for regular, depending on if it was on sale or not. Today it is in the $3.25 to $4.00 range. Precious metals like gold and silver which are the best indicators of real inflation are more like 20 times the 1960 prices. A coke from a vending machine was 6 cents for a 6 oz and 10 cents for a 10 ounce give or take. Today it ranges from $1.00 to $2.00 depending on where the machine is located.

A pair of Levis was $3.99 a pair and today that same pair of Levis is $25.00 to $35.00 depending on style and location. Sugar was 5 cents for a 5 pound bag, and God only knows what it is selling for today. Milk was about 25 cents per gallon and today it is over $3.00.

Anything that actually shows the real inflation rate is dropped from the items the federal government uses to establish inflation.

Working men and women's salaries have generally not kept pace with inflation for a long time. Professional and executive salaries have often exceeded inflation.

In recent years Social Security has fallen way behind actual inflation rates, despite the law that requires SS to keep pace with inflation. Falsified and cherry picked data is used to cheat retirees out of billions every year. Then it is wasted on foreign aid and benefits to illegal aliens.

This is absolutely correct. The CPI stats have been "realigned" twice in the last 35 years, once in 1981 with "owners equivalent rent", and again in 1995 with three biggies, geometric v. arithmetic averaging of the basket of goods being compared, substitution of items that become too expensive with items less so, e.g. ground beef for sirloin steak, and three, hedonic weighting, where a good that becomes more efficient or safer is "weighted" as costing the same or less, even though in reality it costs more. Automobiles, computers etc, fall into this category.

All of these "improvements" were done by the Boskin Commission at the urging of Robert Rubin (SecTreas-Clinton) and Alan Greenscam (Chairman Federal Reserve) in 1995. The primary reason that the "improvements" were made was to keep the COLA's paid to SS recipients and .mil/civil service retirees less, and to keep the deflator for GDP statistics lower.

To top it all off, Congress is considering other alteration to the CPI in order to make it seem even smaller than it is now. If you want real inflation stats, go here:

Shadow Government Statistics - Home Page

It's a site run by a Princeton economist that calculates the CPI, unemployment, and debt statistics the way they were before all of the statistical mummery was introduced. Prepare to be shocked at the differences between the official numbers and the real numbers.

 

[El Bombardero]

This is absolutely correct. The CPI stats have been "realigned" twice in the last 35 years, once in 1981 with "owners equivalent rent", and again in 1995 with three biggies, geometric v. arithmetic averaging of the basket of goods being compared, substitution of items that become too expensive with items less so, e.g. ground beef for sirloin steak, and three, hedonic weighting, where a good that becomes more efficient or safer is "weighted" as costing the same or less, even though in reality it costs more. Automobiles, computers etc, fall into this category.

All of these "improvements" were done by the Boskin Commission at the urging of Robert Rubin (SecTreas-Clinton) and Alan Greenscam (Chairman Federal Reserve) in 1995. The primary reason that the "improvements" were made was to keep the COLA's paid to SS recipients and .mil/civil service retirees less, and to keep the deflator for GDP statistics lower.

To top it all off, Congress is considering other alteration to the CPI in order to make it seem even smaller than it is now. If you want real inflation stats, go here:

Shadow Government Statistics - Home Page

It's a site run by a Princeton economist that calculates the CPI, unemployment, and debt statistics the way they were before all of the statistical mummery was introduced. Prepare to be shocked at the differences between the official numbers and the real numbers.

No Agenda fan?


I've only been working since the mid 90's, but my 'career' experience follows what most of you have said. Started out making entry level money. Did ok for a little while, but cutbacks sliced up our cost of living increases, we took pay cuts and promotions were delayed or never happened.

I've seen the writing on the wall. This is not going to get better, only worse. I've decided to take a different path now altogether.

 

[Mike7.62]

You know, I am glad you posted about this topic. I heard a while back after things went to pot that my generation (I think they are calling us generation Y I am 25) will be the first generation who will not do better than our parents. Now that is most definitely going to be true for me, my dad did do pretty well for himself (lol still does too well he is a bankruptcy lawyer in Vegas). I am heading into the 2 year of my graduate degree, I managed to skate through my undergrad somehow without debt as did my wife (smarty pants full rides lady, finished a degree in 2 years) but now we are taking on a little.
Anywho, if that is true and wages are already suppressed where we live, since it is Utah and the economy is flooded with higher education to the point where laywers work for minimum wage. And if things do keep going up, I really don't know what I should do? I wanted to go on to get a doctorate, but I am half tempted to finish my Master's, get a 9-5 (if one is to be had) sit on my house for a long while (2 bedroom condo) and then rent it out. I just dunno?
I fear for my financial future, which is something someone my age should never have to say. We recently had a kid (as some may know) and I can't even begin to figure out what half the stuff we were charged for was! Let alone how ridiculous the bills have been. I just don't know, and it is hard to speak to your elders and get the same answer "I just don't know." I never planned on being wealthy mind you, I am going to be a research scientist probably with the background I have in Microbiology and the degrees I'll have. But I always pictured myself being able to own a nice house, go on a nice vacation once in a while, camp on the weekends, and the most lavish I got is the fact that I do want a boat to go to the lake.
Uncertainty is abound, I am just grateful that my wife has the job that she does, and the insurance that she does

My advice is to stay out of debt, pay off your house ASAP, and save in real bullion, not paper. Utah has become a gold/silver legal tender state with no taxation on purchase or sale, so it has some advantages for using bullion as a savings vehicle that other states discourage. Dollar cost average your purchases, i.e., every month the same amount, and stack it away in a safe in/around your house.

Gold and silver bullion has a few advantages, the primary being no counterparty risk if it is kept in your possession. That means real metal in your hands, and not a paper equivalent or bullion in an allocated or unallocated account, or in a safe deposit box. All of these are subject to counterparty risk, and negate the primary reason for holding bullion.

Another advantage of saving in precious metals is holding value through time. The cost of gasoline is a good example. As was related in another post, gas was between $.19 and $.26 per gallon in 1964. A gallon could usually be purchased for one quarter. That same pre 1965 quarter is worth $3.92 today. What's a gallon of gasoline today? Numerous examples abound in the maintenance of purchasing power with precious metals.

The normal "advice" that you will get from financial planners is to keep the majority of your savings in the stock market, especially at your age. In today's investing environment, which is more like a casino with insiders gaining advantage through high frequency trading and free money from the Federal Reserve, the retail investor is a fool for being in this market. After the 7th Circuit FCOA Sentinal v. BONY Mellon decision last year, and the new "bail in" paradigm introduced by the ECB in Cypress, and agreed to by most western countries as the way that SIFI's (Systemically Important Financial Institutions) will be saved in the future, nothing that you have in the bank or any financial instrument is yours. It is the bank's, or the clearing house's to do with as they please. They can hypothecate and rehypothecate "your" money and use it as collateral for their proprietary trading, and if they lose it, you're last in line to get it back. Don't believe me? Look up the aforementioned Sentinal case, the Dodd-Frank Title II in reference to SIFI's, and the BIS (Bank for International Settlements) paper on the same. Bottom line is that what you think is yours, isn't, as long as it remains in the system. If the sytem remains solvent, then you likely won't have a problem, but the debt metrics and the financial crime and fraud that have been rampant the last 10 to 20 years should give you pause on where and how you place the fruits of your labor.

Sorry for the long post, but some things need to be addressed and this thread is one that invites it.

 

[Mike7.62]

No Agenda fan?

No, just someone with a degree in Econ, who knows what a fraud I was taught (Keynesian Econ) and decided to study Austrian school and found it to have the answers.

 

[feralmerril]

I retired january of 2,000. I am not getting a 1/3 of what I earned in my later working years. The differance is I shuffled everything around where I am debt free. I paid child support almost up to retirement. I was makeing good money but couldnt eat on the traditional 40 hours a week and was forced to work 60 to 70 hours to live. Thank God the OT most always was available to me. That was a self consuming fire. The more I made the taxs seemed to triple! The one lone thing I did right in my working years was to fully fund my 401K. I looked at that and said what the heck am I doing haveing to live at work just to eat when I could retire, pay off the house with part of the 401k and have a life! I retired with the idea of loafing untill towards the end of the year, take truck driveing school and traveling and getting paid for it starting in 2001. I was single, GF had died and I no longer was paying supports.
So much for plans. 3 months later in march I lost over a 1/3 to half of the 401 in the big crash! In july I got T boned by a drunk and it caused me to later get a pulmanary embolisim and that stopped the truck driveing idea. By less than the end of the year my 401k was less than half, I found I couldnt work at truck driveing etc. Then I got another GF (that died of cancer within 3 years), dad came down with alzheimers and I had to go to wisconsin to take care of him. So much for plans! Maybe plans work for some of you but for me my plans were worse than laughable! "Stuff" happens.
I thought I would never marry again. But soon I did. Not only that but theresa is almost 17 years younger than me but not in the best of health. So I have to now plan so she can get by when I likely die before her. Right now I am nursing her.
My plans? I havent any. I just have learned to trust God. We get by.

 

[carpe pugna]

I made $6.50 an hour working at a radio station in 1972 while in high school. My new car was $3,501. School tuition was $230/sem, gas was about $1.00/gal.

My first house had a 10% mortgage and when I borrowed money for my business in 1978-81 I paid 15-19% interest. My taxes in the late 70s were in the 49% bracket. After Reagan they went down to 45% bracket.

With 35 years as a systems engineer I make well more than 7X

Now I have the end years of a 15 year mortgage at 3.66%, my taxes went "up" to the 39% bracket and my 401K has gained all back plus some from the 2008 Recession.

All in all, I can't complain.

 

[Airpark]

Realized after posting this that a better question would have been."

Has your "BUYING POWER" kept up.

Do you earn enough now to buy for $266,000 what cost $37,500 in 1967?

Yes, our hourly dollar rate has increased....however...I do not think the buying power has increased in concert with it.

Has Yours?

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I read a good book entitled "Family and Nation" by Daniel Patrick Moynihan, he points in 1953 the first 3/4s of the national average/median income was tax-exempt, by the 1980s the tax threshold was down the first THIRD. In addition the proliferation of state and local income taxes, sales taxes, etc. takes a bigger and bigger bite. Look up Ray Stevens video "If 10 Percent is Good Enough for Jesus", read the lyrics.

 

[swMO]

my buying power has NOT increased for me. my first job in the mid 90's paid 5/hr. i worked for a phone tech support subcontractor for a major PC company at 12/hr with no raises for the last 6 years till the contract went back over seas. just started a new job at 13.75 that looks promising, but it is hard to optimistic.

most degrees don't seem worth the student loans from the people i've worked with.

 

[mike from st pete]

What income?

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Social Security....best Oxymoron ever....so no, it's not keeping up. Every time prices go up, my spendable income goes down. If I got back all the money I put into SS in the 45 years of paying into the system I would be a rich man.

 

[SmokewagonSD]

In 1976 I purchased my first revolver, in cost me 50 hours of my labor, pre tax. The revolver I purchased a couple of months ago cost me 15 hours of my gross labor.
I can't complain, life has treated me well but I had to do my part. Constantly upgrading my skills, making moves to get better jobs along the way and giving my employers their money's worth.

 

[snubbyfan]

We were doin' ok, making enough to replace our old Dodge Neon and '87 Toyota truck with newer vehicles. A 2009 Toyota Yaris for my wife and a 2008 Toyota Tacoma 4wd truck for me. We were making enough for 2 car notes, a mortgage and enough to put away.
Then my degenerative motor nerve neuropathy started. I lost my job as a saw operator and had to go on disability. My wife had to quit her job to drive me around to see doctors, fill out forms and make sure I didn't topple down steps. Now after a year of treatments, tests and therapy, I've basically relearned how to Walk by using the muscles that still work. My wife got a job as a home health care aid and works just 3 days a week. Going down steps and stepping off curbs is still tricky for me but I've managed to stay out of an electric wheelchair so far. We're lucky if we break even now.
Luckily for me my wife made sure to put money away while we were doing well. We have about 1 year left on our mortgage and after that's paid for we'll be able to breath a little easier.
It just amazes me that, if you tell someone that your right handed and your hand no longer works well enough to write, they give you bunches of forms to fill out.