Help Dating .38 S&W Mod 3/4

[Azryael]

Hey folks, new here, but not new to firearms.

I've been given what I assume to be a Model 3/4 .38S&W break-top revolver and I'm trying to get a general idea for the date.

There are no markings on the left-hand side of the barrel, but it does have the patent markings which read:

SMITH&WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS USA PAT'D JAN 24 65
JULY 11 65 AUG 24 69 REISSUE JULY 25 71 MAY 11 80 JAN 3 82

Serial # is 128xxx

I've got a few additional comments/questions:

1) Is it normal for the cylinder to rotate freely?

2) I'm assuming this is double-action only as the hammer wants to move forward as soon as you pull it back.

3) The barrel catch seems a little stiff, anything I can do about that?

Now for some photos:

Thanks!

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! You have a .38 Double Action from about 1886-'87.

The cylinder should not rotate with the action closed and the cylinder bolt raised (the small piece on the bottom of the frame window that engages the notch in the cylinder). The hammer should lock if it is pulled all the way back. These indicate mechanical issues.

If the barrel catch is stiff, it may just need a little lubrication. The gun has been renickeled and it may have built up on the catch also.

 

[Azryael]

Thanks!!

How easy would it be to source replacement parts?

I figured the hammer should still lock back and that the cylinder shouldn't rotate.

 

[murphydog]

Parts can be sourced from unrepairable guns, but gunsmiths willing and able to work on them are few.

 

[Azryael]

I've no issue doing the work myself, it's finding the parts that would be the hurdle to overcome.

I may tear it down to see what's worn. Looks to be in decent shape otherwise.

 

[Jim Watson]

The gun has been replated. You can tell because S&W does not nickel plate hammers and triggers. I wonder if the action might have gotten munged up in the process.

Good luck on parts. The problem with getting parts from unrepairable guns is that the same parts tend to break.

 

[glowe]

Welcome to the Forum. You mention that you have a Model 3/4? With the serial number you supplied, the actual identifying name for your revolver is a 38 Double Action, 3rd Model. As murphydog & Jim Watson stated you have a replated gun from the mid-1880s.

Let us know when you determine what parts are broken or missing, since some members have extra parts that they might supply. Parts for all antique S&Ws are getting almost impossible to find and the best source is to watch ebay, where parts come up for many antique S&Ws. The other option already mentioned is to buy a beater 38 DA for parts. The value is low on your revolver due to the improper replating and the fact that it does not function properly, so unless you have some sentimental attachment to the gun, be careful not to spend more than the gun is worth to repair. You could expect your gun not in good mechanical condition to be worth maybe $150 and it would most likely be bought by a person looking for a parts gun themselves.

It also looks like your latch is plated?? The factory did not plate latches, hammers or triggers because of the tendency for these parts to bind when installed. Your latch might actually be too wide to move freely. Check the edges when you lift the latch and look for wear marks that would indicate binding.

Lastly, these revolvers should function in both DA and SA mode and can be dangerous to shoot if the SA does not work or hammer push-off is evident. Several decades ago I had some cheap 38 5 shot revolvers and it was common for the SA to not work properly after decades of wear, so I just shot them in DA mode. I had one at the range and a friend wanted to shoot it. Well, he pulled back the hammer and let go and the gun went off and luckly the bullet hit the ground downrange. I learned never to try to use a gun that was not working properly and repaired or disposed of that problem after the incident.

 

[Werner Steyn]

Good day.

I have a .38 S&W CTG with serial Nr V 67546. I do not have a lot of info. I would like to obtain some history as well as an estimate value for this revolver.

Can someone please assist.

Thank you.

 

[Azryael]

Glowe,

Thank you for the detailed reply! The reason I though Mod 3/4 is that I had nothing else to go on. This is the first 38 DA I've come to handle, and with a lack of any other identifying markings (can't help but feel the replating is the reason for that), I had nothing else to go off of.

I've not had a chance yet to take it apart completely, but I intend to do so this evening.

That latch is indeed plated, it seems they plated EVERYTHING on the exterior.

Thanks for the additional feedback on the worn SA symptoms -- I would definitely not shoot any weapon that wasn't in perfect working order.

Is there a parts diagram or something along those lines available online somewhere? My big book of diagrams has the 38 Safety Hammerless and the 22 Model 1 as the oldest S&W revolvers in it.

 

[mmaher94087]

azryael, more than likely the rear sear is bad. This rear sear is under the hammer, actuated by the trigger and often worn badly. This rear sear is what keeps the hammer at full cock when used in the single action mode. The rear sear is the sort of flat bar under the hammer that has a lip (sear) on it to engage the hammer notch (full cock). Both the rear sear and/or the hammer notch can be worn enough so that they do not engage. Simply filing new notches will foul up the geometry between the hammer and cylinder locking. These parts need to be welded, recut and hardened to function properly. Good luck.

 

[Azryael]

Maher,

Thanks for the reply.

These symptoms to mimic a sear/disconnector wear issue I had on a '42 Remington-Rand 1911A1 where the hammer would fall forward. Fortunately, replacement parts for 1911s are a dime a dozen.

I've some skill with welding and cutting, and know someone who can help with hardening the metal -- just need to get in touch with him after I determine the damaged.