Help me solve a bad trigger habit?!

[Len]

Here's the scenario...shooting a revolver with a stout DA trigger pull.

In single action, very good groups, one ragged hole....then, in double action, slightly larger groups, all moving to the right.

I've seen the "trigger aiming chart" ad nauseum, I know the problem is that in double action, the extra trigger pull required is moving shots to the right...

What I need is a skills exercise, or a trick to settling that down. Some form of practice regimen...

I'm trying to concentrate on pulling straight back, with the pad rather than the joint...but I still wander. If I pull too slow, I wind up "staging" which is something I don't want to do, nor does it solve the problem.

So far the only suggestion I've heard is to get a spring job done to reduce the DA trigger pull, but I'm still hoping that there's some training exercise that might improve my ergonomics.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Len

 

[Smith357]

One old exercise is to balance a coin on the barrel and dry fire the revolver keeping the coin balanced.

 

[APS]

Wow, someone who actually wants to fix a problem at the source rather than throwing money at a cover up!

The best way to fix this is to dry fire with an unloaded gun. Pick a 'small' target on the wall and pull the DA trigger, watching the sights to make sure that when the shot breaks, the sights are still in exact proper alignment.
You will probably see the front sight jump a little to the right at first. Then you just need to figure out while dry firing the right grip strength and trigger stroke that will stop the front sight from jumping.
Also, pulling slowly will help. When I first started, it was hard for me to pull slowly without the trigger jerking stop-start-stop, etc.

 

[Cary Williams]

remove the screw from the ejector bolt thumb piece, then pull out the thumb piece,

try the double action pull and see if it is better with thumb piece out of the gun.

 

[Snowbandit]

Wow, someone who actually wants to fix a problem at the source rather than throwing money at a cover up!

The best way to fix this is to dry fire with an unloaded gun. Pick a 'small' target on the wall and pull the DA trigger, watching the sights to make sure that when the shot breaks, the sights are still in exact proper alignment.
You will probably see the front sight jump a little to the right at first. Then you just need to figure out while dry firing the right grip strength and trigger stroke that will stop the front sight from jumping.
Also, pulling slowly will help. When I first started, it was hard for me to pull slowly without the trigger jerking stop-start-stop, etc.

APS is right. I often have students with trigger troubles start very close to the wall. I'm talking 1/4 inch from muzzle to wall in the beginning. You will quickly see any unwanted movement from this position. Just triple check that the gun is unloaded or you'll have a mess.

 

[tdan]

You may want to try gripping your gun as high as possible. Sometimes this may mean trying a few different grip styles. Many of the finger groove grips prevent you from getting a higher grip on the gun. You will find that by getting that higher grip, you will also slightly shorten the reach of your index finger to the trigger. This will give you better leverage and control. I personally prefer to have the right edge of the trigger to be indexed right on the first joint. Hopefully, you are not trying to shoot one of those .500 serrated target triggers in DA. I've found that the .312 smooth combat trigger works best for me. Remember that everybody has some degree of wobble. You simply need to smoothly pull through the shot as the sights settle down into your area of wobble. Avoid snatching the trigger when you THINK the sights are centered. This will almost always result in a flyer. Needless to say, a tuned action that has a SMOOOOTH trigger pull will be conducive to better groups.........but I'm sure you already know that.

One more thing..................Practice.......practice, and more practice.

 

[Dragon88]

+1 to dry fire. Most people lose focus on the front sight right before the gun breaks, because they are anticipating recoil. Practice pulling the trigger smoothly all the way back and not upsetting the sights through the break and follow through.

Another benefit to dry firing a good quality revolver like a Smith is that it will improve the trigger as your skills improve. It's a win win all the way around.

 

[sbcman]

All are good suggestions here- the only thing I might add is possibly a spring kit. Such has made a world of difference in shooting j-frames for me.

 

[shawn mccarver]

remove the screw from the ejector bolt thumb piece, then pull out the thumb piece,

try the double action pull and see if it is better with thumb piece out of the gun.

Huh? I am scratching my head. I have been shooting S&W revolvers over 40 years now, and this is a new one for me.

Please explain how removal of the cylinder release thumbpiece will correct the problem described by the shooter.

Do you reinstall the thumbpiece on your way to a gun fight?

 

[bmcgilvray]

Thanks Shawn;

I was sure hoping I wasn't the only one who wasn't getting that lesson in trigger control.

 

[MKT]

Grip it high, this improves your leverage on the trigger. When you pull through the trigger make sure you pull straight back, the tendency is to pull the gun to the side (right for righties and left for lefties). A lot of dry fire, maintaining focus on the front sight DO NOT let your focus shift to your target. Let the target/aim point be a blur and keep your focus on the front sight.

That should help.

 

[Cary Williams]

double action trigger pull

Lin said his revolver had a stout trigger pull.

A friend that builds 1911's and PPC revolvers told me one thing he does to help double action trigger pull was to check fit of the thumb piece in the frame window.

With cylinder closed,remove the hollow screw and take out the thumb piece, if it didn't lift out easily it could be that the front ejector spring under the barrel was forcing thumb piece to bind on the rear of the window in the frame, if it was, dress rear of thumb piece lug where it touches the window until it easily lifts out.

When thumb piece is removed try double action and see if it is any better, if it is better fix the thumb piece.

I had never heard of this, it's not in Jerry Kuhnhausen's book.

I asked Gene at S&W had he heard of this and he said he has done it for several years.He said don't take off too much.

I fixed my 629 that was not as smooth as my 29 and 27,
it is now pretty close, a new rebound spring might get it there.

This might be common knowledge among good gunsmiths.
I would like to know more,but I guess a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

How many of you knew this?

Cary

 

[mfoley]

Help with Trigger Control Issues

I had to deal with the same issues when shooting my M&P340 and Model 60 J frames.

I found that when I pulled the trigger the "Normal" way using the pad of your trigger finger that I pulled off of the target.

I think it has something to do with the frame size and distances to the trigger with the grips I have on my revolvers.

I found that I could pull the trigger straight back without disturbing the sights by using the first joint of my finger to pull the trigger.

I know this is non standard but it works for me with these small revolvers.

I had trigger jobs on both of my J frames so that the trigger pull is smoothed up.

Dry firing with snap caps is very important and will allow you to see if you are holding the front sight steady.
You don't have to use a target to do this. Pointing at something on the wall will work.

Just work with it until you can pull the trigger straight back without the front sight moving.

Work more on firing double action vs using single action or buy an internal hammer gun and have to shoot that way (This is the way I learned it after talking to my gunsmith).

Do not be afraid to change things for the particular gun you are working with to make it work for you.

 

[Len]

Thanks so much, guys, I appreciate the advice. I've already started using some of the ideas, with a twist of my own.

The gun I'm working with here is the 327 TRR8 [an absolutely remarkable revolver, BTW!]. I had not, nor had I intended to attach the rails that come with it. But, I have one of those clip-on weaver/picatinny mini lasers...

So, beginning with the advice of APS, Snowbandit Tdan and others, here's the training regimen.

Laser is attached to the lower rail. [Gun is triple-checked to be unloaded.] I taped a paper target to the wall. Beginning at about an inch, I place the laser dot on the target, and commence dry firing. Noticed a tiny "twitch" when pulling the trigger in DA. Kept working at it, adjusting grip and trigger-finger placement until it smoothed out.

Then backed up about two feet, [as you move out, the "twitch" gets even more pronounced] and started dry firing there until I felt the situation was improving...then moved further out again.

After about an hour of this, I got to the point where I could see almost no difference between SA and DA trigger pull, at approximately 30 feet.

I worked the "coin drill" for about 15 minutes, too.

Then, I switched over to a 686 P, this time just rubber banding a laser pointer to it [after all, I'm looking for movement, not actual targeting], and went through the whole drill again, with similar improvements.

Monday, PM, I go to the range to test the results with both revolvers.

I have to admit, too, that I'd always been a little incredulous about dry-firing drills, perhaps due to coming from the old days when dry-firing was something you just didn't do to your guns.

Thanks to all for the kind and expert advice! I'm very interested to see how it works in "real" shooting.

Len.

 

[tdan]

Lin said his revolver had a stout trigger pull.

A friend that builds 1911's and PPC revolvers told me one thing he does to help double action trigger pull was to check fit of the thumb piece in the frame window.

With cylinder closed,remove the hollow screw and take out the thumb piece, if it didn't lift out easily it could be that the front ejector spring under the barrel was forcing thumb piece to bind on the rear of the window in the frame, if it was, dress rear of thumb piece lug where it touches the window until it easily lifts out.

When thumb piece is removed try double action and see if it is any better, if it is better fix the thumb piece.

I had never heard of this, it's not in Jerry Kuhnhausen's book.

I asked Gene at S&W had he heard of this and he said he has done it for several years.He said don't take off too much.

I fixed my 629 that was not as smooth as my 29 and 27,
it is now pretty close, a new rebound spring might get it there.

This might be common knowledge among good gunsmiths.
I would like to know more,but I guess a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

How many of you knew this?

Cary

You can count me in as one that finds this a new one. If I am visualizing this correctly, the thumbpiece is binding in the frame slot and is preventing the rear bolt from moving further back. Is this supposedly putting more pressure on the center pin of the cylinder? The thing is........the center pin is also a spring loaded mechanism. I can't see any signifigant pressure issues here that would result in more effort to carry up the cylinder by the hand. The front locking bolt only engages the end of the extractor rod to a finite depth. I just don't see where small variations in "end to end" pressure on the cylinder will result in measurable increases in rotational effort. All this said, I did check out a few thumbpieces on various K L N frames. On 4 of 5, I was able to push the thumbpiece very slightly to the rear with the cylinder closed. I'm thinking there is no binding here. I do have a K-22 that the thumbpiece will not move one iota to the rear with the cylinder closed. I'll have to see if there is any measurable difference in DA pull with this gun's thumbpiece removed. I do have a Lyman trigger scale to check this out. I will get back to you with the results.

 

[No.343]

I did the coin drill often when I first started shooting bullseye. It definitely helps. Another drill is to visualize having the front sight tied to your trigger finger and imagine pulling the front sight straight through the rear sight as you fire the shot. This was not my original thought and I wish I knew who came up with this idea. It really helps to achieve a good focus. I would be so focused on the sight alignment that the shot would always be a surprise. I managed to work on multiple problems at the same time.