Help with .357mag/.38sp

[Tensaw]

I'll be getting a 686 Plus this week which will be my first revolver. I've been reloading 9mm and .45acp for a few years and need to learn what I can about loading .357mag and .38 Special. I understand that the same dies are used for both? The cases are different but .357 cases can be used for both? What are the popular bullet profiles and their sources? I have W231, Clays, and Titegroup powders. Are there better ones that I should consider? When actually loading, is there anything to be aware of that's different from loading 9mm and .45? I use a Dillon 550 and the 686 will be used for range/target shooting only. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

 

[BB57]

Yes, the same dies can be used for .357 Max, .357 Magnum and .38 Special.

But I recommend you get a set for .357 Mag and a set for .38 Special. That way, you can set the dies up for each cartridge and not have to mess with it every time you change from loading one to the other.

Since you have a 550, just set up a tool head for .357 Magnum and another for .38 Special. You'll never regret it.

As it is, if you load both .357 Mag and .38 Special if you are not diligent in your case sorting you'll either way over bell a .357 case in a .38 special adjusted die, or you'll have very little bullet seated in a .38 case coming out of your .357 adjusted seating die.

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You can shoot .38 Special in a .357 Magnum - no problem at all, just clean it on a regular basis to avoid a carbon ring in the chamber.

.357 Brass costs significantly more than .38 Special. You could shorten .357 brass to use in a .38 but it's a lot of work when .38 brass is plentiful and less expensive.

You can load .38 +P+ or .38-44 level loads in to .38 Special brass to use in a .357 Magnum revolver, or a .357 Magnum model revolver that was ordered in .38 Special (some police departments did that to avoid using ".357 Magnum" for PR purposes while still wanting .357 Magnum performance in a .38 case. However, that requires you to carefully separate those loads so that you don't blow up a .38 Special. revolver.

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Powders for .357 Magnum include:

- Unique (An excellent powder for short barrel, and or lighter recoil, but data is a little harder to find. It's also excellent for cast bullet loads.)

- H110/Win 296 (A good powder for maximum loads in longer barrels, but the heavier charges equate to a lot more recoil.)

- Alliant 2400 (Another good choice for near maximum jacketed bullet loads)

- Tite Group (A good powder for cast .357 Magnum loads.)


.38 Special:

Win 231, Bullseye, Unique, 700x and Power Pistol are all good powders for both cast bullet and jacketed bullet .38 Special loads. HS-6 works great for jacketed loads.

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The only real difference with .38 and .357 loading is that the .38 is an old case with a lot of capacity and the .357 Mag case it even longer. They both have a lot of extra capacity and both cases will potentially hold a double charge of faster burning powders. So get a light for your 550 to ensure you can easily do a visual inspection of powder level before you seat a bullet on it. And, anytime your routine is broken, stop and verify the status of every case on the shell plate before you pull the handle again. That's a given with any progressive press, but it's even more important with large capacity revolver cases like the .38 and .357.

 

[rwsmith]

Usually....

....the die doesn't come down to the rim when you use .38 dies on a 357 case. You can set the die by measuring it or get a spacer to drop under the die nut before you screw it on the press.

Another difference in revolver and semi cases is that you ROLL crimp into the cannelure instead of taper crimping up against the bullet.

125 grain and up (110gr if you like) is good out of .38 but .357 likes bullets heavier than 125 grain if you are shooting really hot loads. This isn't even a problem with 686s but were a problem with model 19 (K frames) that had a thin forcing cone.

The ONLY difference between shooting .38 and .357 out of the same gun is that you get a little crud ring at the end of the chamber with the .38s because the case is a little shorter, then you have problems seating the longer .357s. Answer, bring a bore brush or shoot the .38s before you shoot the .357s. Big deal.

Rather than an expanding ball like rifle dies, the pistol dies have a mouth expander. Expand the mouth just enough to clear the base of the bullet, a little more for cast lead bullets.

Cartridge length is limited by the length of the cylinder. Bullet depth is more forgiving in old black powder revolver cartridges than in modern semis.

Be sure to bone up on straight walled, rimmed cartridges from a good source, especially for those little ideosyncracies that affect safety.

PS: I like 2400 for .357 because it goes well from warm to hot, almost as hot as 296/110.

 

[kbm6893]

I use HP38 to load .38 special. It's the exact same powder as the 231 you have. Meters perfectly every time. I have 4 .357 revolvers but have yet to load a single .357 for them. Always .38 Special. If I ever do load .357 I'll get a dedicated .357 set to avoid re-setting them. I found out recently that I can de-cap and re-size a .357 case with my .38 resizing die.

 

[rwsmith]

....the die doesn't come down to the rim when you use .38 dies on a 357 case. You can set the die by measuring it or get a spacer to drop under the die nut before you screw it on the press.

Another difference in revolver and semi cases is that you ROLL crimp into the cannelure instead of taper crimping up against the bullet.

125 grain and up (110gr if you like) is good out of .38 but .357 likes bullets heavier than 125 grain if you are shooting really hot loads. This isn't even a problem with 686s but were a problem with model 19 (K frames) that had a thin forcing cone.

The ONLY difference between shooting .38 and .357 out of the same gun is that you get a little crud ring at the end of the chamber with the .38s because the case is a little shorter, then you have problems seating the longer .357s. Answer, bring a bore brush or shoot the .38s before you shoot the .357s. Big deal.

Rather than an expanding ball like rifle dies, the pistol dies have a mouth expander. Expand the mouth just enough to clear the base of the bullet, a little more for cast lead bullets.

Cartridge length is limited by the length of the cylinder. Bullet depth is more forgiving in old black powder revolver cartridges than in modern semis.

Be sure to bone up on straight walled, rimmed cartridges from a good source, especially for those little ideosyncracies that affect safety.

I like 2400 powder in .357 anywhere from 12 to 15 grains for a 158 gr. swc.

 

[Rammer Jammer]

All good advice above.

If you're already a seasoned reloader with the semi auto cartridges you list you won't have much if any difficulty transitioning to straight wall revolver rounds.

 

[george_lehr]

The cases are different but .357 cases can be used for both? What are the popular bullet profiles and their sources?

You can make 38 loads in 357 cases, but if you do, what will you do when you eventually get a model 10, like all serious S&W revolver guys should have? I'd recommend using 38 cases for 38s.
If you want to load lead bullets, the most popular are 148 grain wad cutters for low velocity target loads and 158 grain semi-wad cutters for target, plinking, or hunting. I'd recommend using coated bullets. I've ordered from SNS, Bayou, Missouri, ACME and others I can't remember now.
If you want jacketed bullets, the easiest to find are Hornady XTPs, but there are others, such as Nosler, Sierra, Zero, Speer and Remington.
For 357 magnum loads, I believe in making a heavy crimp. It will provide for proper powder burning for the slower burning powders used for magnum loads and will ensure against bullets jumping the crimp.

George

 

[HorizontalMike]

All of the above!

Plus, it would not hurt to study up on Volume Measured Density (VMD).

Here is one link, although there are many, many...:
VMD Explanation

I personally choose powders with a higher VMD, in order to help minimize/exclude/red-flag any possible double charges and such. What that can mean is that a "double charge" could overflow the brass and send you a much needed "you F'd up" that you need to pay attention to.

Sounds like your past experience will help you out quite a bit. The only thing I might add, is consider Vihtavuori N105 powder for .357 Magnum with 158xtp. I love it, and it even works in 147xtp 9mm rounds. Getting S.D. of 12 and very happy camper.

Have fun! And good luck coming over to the 686 side...

 

[colt_saa]

If you are just starting, your funds might be tight. While I also recommend separate dies that are used for 357 Magnum and 38 Special, I understand if that is not in your budget

I have a better suggestion for you, one that you already touched upon.

Forget about using 38 special brass.

Every piece of brass that goes into any of my 357 Magnums is 357 Magnum brass. It does not matter if I am shooting a 357 Magnum load or a 38 Special load.

There is nothing wrong with using a listed 38 special load but putting it in 357 Magnum brass. The larger case volume will yield a slightly slower muzzle velocity. But for target loads who cares?

Winchester 231 will do well for mid range target loads. I use 5.5 grains with a 158 grain plated truncated cone bullet

If you want full power out of the 357 Magnum you will be looking at H110(my favorite), Blue Dot, 2400 or a few others that do not come to mind at the moment. Those powders will eek out that last foot per second with the Magnum cartridges

These IMI, 125 grain JSPs are my favorite to load. Lots of H110 and a beautiful orange flame

 

[oddshooter]

Great choice of the SW 686.

Like HorizontalMike, I'm a Vihtavouri fan; however my poison is the N340. VV burns clean and is very accurate.

Another slow powder I love for the accuracy is 4227. It's not spiky like H110/296 when downloaded and gives excellent velocity as well.

Like several others, I suggest staying with 357 cases; one set of dies, one setup, no crud cleaning, and no crunched cases.

The real challenge is in selecting a bullet your individual gun likes. They all seem to be particular as to what they shoot best. It takes time and experimentation to figure it out; but it's worth it in the end. I suggest starting with the bullet drop test in each cylinder; cheap and easy. That should narrow your choices of size.
I've also become a total Powder Coating (PC) fan; better lube, sparkling clean barrel, and no leading. Pretty bullets.

Prescut

 

[Tensaw]

Wow! Great info that will help me greatly. Thanks so much for going to the trouble to respond in such detail. Can't wait to get my hands on the 686 (bought some factory ammo yesterday).

 

[colt_saa]

Wow! Great info that will help me greatly. Thanks so much for going to the trouble to respond in such detail. Can't wait to get my hands on the 686 (bought some factory ammo yesterday).

Do not forget to post the required photos of your most recent addition to the family when it arrives

 

[mikerjf]

No expert here, but I've done a lot of generic 38 specials. Started with 148g wadcutters; then went to 158g LSWCs.

1. The two had slightly different POI, so now I stick to 158, same as my defense ammo.

2. Just like the 38sp-in-a-357 crud ring issue, I found wadcutters left something in there that the shoulder of the 158 LSWC didn't like - had to do some serious cleaning before they wouldn't stick.

So I'd agree - use only 357 cases, and maybe stick to one weight bullet.

 

[342ti]

Keep it simple, avoid ALL the BS/Opinion stuff, stick with PROVEN components. 38spl=Bullseye powder/357mag=Alliant 2400. 158gr bullets for both, 38spl likes Wadcutters also. Let your Revolver Cylinder & Cannelures keep your OAL honest. Have fun, both are easy calibers to reload. MOST important, Federal Primers ONLY! The other brands are too hard for reliable, first strike ignition!

 

[BB57]

.../

/...MOST important, Federal Primers ONLY! The other brands are too hard for reliable, first strike ignition!

Primer cup hardness for US made primers goes from easiest to hardest in this order:

Federal
Winchester
Remington
CCI

I'll disagree a bit an suggest that Federal or Winchester will work fine in pretty much any .38 or .357 revolver.

And in a 686, unless someone has installed a lighter hammer spring, CCIs will fire with 100% reliability.

 

[george_lehr]

The real challenge is in selecting a bullet your individual gun likes. They all seem to be particular as to what they shoot best. It takes time and experimentation to figure it out; but it's worth it in the end. I suggest starting with the bullet drop test in each cylinder; cheap and easy. That should narrow your choices of size.
I've also become a total Powder Coating (PC) fan; better lube, sparkling clean barrel, and no leading. Pretty bullets.

Prescut[/Quote

If you'd like to buy small quantities of coated lead bullets in order to try different bullet styles, be advised that Badman Bullets sells sample packs of 25 bullets.

George

 

[gwpercle]

Be aware ... if you have set up your dies to reload 38 special , before you can reload 357 magnum you will have to re-adjust your dies to allow for the longer 357 case .
Also make sure your die set is marked 38 Special or 38 Spcl./357 mag.
If it is marked 357 magnum and not 38 special , it may be a set that ONLY reloads 357 magnum and will not work with 38 special .

Sometimes the obvious doesn't get pointed out to new guy's .
Gary

 

[mtgianni]

I see no reason to ever put jacketed bullets down the barrel of a 357 revolver. The only exception might be if it was carried solely for self defense.
I would buy some 38 special cases and shoot 500 wadcutters over 3 gr of Bullseye before I did anything else with the gun. You will need to clean the cylinder but that is minor. It will teach you more about the differences between a revolver hold and an auto. You will be able to work on shrinking a group and seeing what then works for you. Recoil will be so minimal and the report is such that a wife or girlfriend would not be intimidated to shoot your new Smith.
I would then start with 357 and 158-170 gr bullets and work on form. I prefer to shoot single action until I have confidence with a new gun then try to improve my DA skills.
I don't know your range but would start with 15 and 25 yards with the WC 38's and when the 25 yard is working well stick with it for 357. 7 yards is a self defense practice only, IMO. Enjoy your new gun.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

In my reloading days i found dedicated case mouth flaring, bullet seating and crimping dies spared me a lot of aggravation.

 

[OKFC05]

I have spacer washers to adapt my adjusted .38 RCBS dies to .357. You only need 2, one for powder/flare and one for seating. The decapper is fine for both .38 and .357. Changing the seater die for different bullets is quick and easy, especially if you keep a sample of each load you use (put the sample in the die and screw the stem down until it touches). Putting .38 loads in .357 cases is safe, but not required, since a tornado chamber brush takes the debris ring out easily. DO NOT put .357 loads in .38 cases because SOMEBODY always manages to put them into a .38 revolver. I have shot tens of thousands of 158gr .38 IDPA reloads with HP38 in my model 66, and it is a real joy to be able to produce consistent loads that feel the same, shot after shot.