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SegundoViel
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Thank you so much for all the information!!!
Help with Model 3
- Thread starter SegundoViel
- Start date
I am going to piggyback onto this thread and ask how do you tell the Russian .44 from .44 SW? And isn't the .44 SW obsolete? I ask because I am looking at a model 3 but but I can only find one serial number on the gun and no other markings. I was going to ,see an offer but scared myself out of the acquisition…should I go back..
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Jim Watson
Member
I don't think they made double actions in .44 S&W "American."
opoefc
US Veteran
moralem, the gun you posted is a Mod. 3 DA in .44 S&W Russian caliber. The .44 S&W American is a longer obsolete cartridge and pre-dates the .44 Russsian by 30 yrs. Ed
The 44 American (44S&W) cylinder is bored straight through
The 44 Russian has a sharp ridge 2/3 down.
A model 3 DA in 44 American would be rare if there are any.
The Russian was introduced 1 or 2 years after the American (1871-1872)
The 44 Russian has a sharp ridge 2/3 down.
A model 3 DA in 44 American would be rare if there are any.
The Russian was introduced 1 or 2 years after the American (1871-1872)
Hello Segundo. nice post and neat gun. Please do not clean or change any parts! There is nothing you can do to enhance its beauty. Its the the best it is going to be. And no steel wool!! Just oil and leave it alone. It is over 100years old, it deserves a long rest. And dont shoot it. Mike
Thanks to opoefc and iby for the clarification. I had no idea what I was looking at. I am going to go back and make an offer. And yes the grips are mottled colored. Kind of like a coltwood plastic. I have no idea if they are original….more to come I hope. But I am hesitant to get it because there simply aren't any markings or serial numbers on the cylinder or other parts they should be on.
mmaher94087
Member
"..the grips are mottled colored... I have no idea if they are original…." Yes, they are original and collectible. They are not found very often on the big DA 44's.
No serial numbers?
No serial numbers?
I've seen a few copies of the large frame Smith & Wesson's that are literally a clone. Would fool anyone at a glance without hands on inspection.
Make sure it has a very clear two-line barrel address that begins with Smith & Wesson. (Spelt correctly). The copies never get the spelling right.
The grip looks correct to me but need better light photos of both grips. No way to authenticate this piece based on that one photo. I sure hope it's correct and you get a good price for it. If those are original mottled grips you have yourself a rare bird.
No serial numbers on the cylinder/bbl/ latch is a warning of a copy or a put together. This is a tough one because of those grips. Need more photos to help you out.
Murph
No serial numbers?
I've seen a few copies of the large frame Smith & Wesson's that are literally a clone. Would fool anyone at a glance without hands on inspection.
Make sure it has a very clear two-line barrel address that begins with Smith & Wesson. (Spelt correctly). The copies never get the spelling right.
The grip looks correct to me but need better light photos of both grips. No way to authenticate this piece based on that one photo. I sure hope it's correct and you get a good price for it. If those are original mottled grips you have yourself a rare bird.
No serial numbers on the cylinder/bbl/ latch is a warning of a copy or a put together. This is a tough one because of those grips. Need more photos to help you out.
Murph
Correct
Address stamp looks right to me.
So,
I'd check the action, ejector functional, bore condition, any hint of matching numbers. Hard to believe the barrel number isn't there?
That number is well protected on the flat adjacent to the latch. Also look at the ratchet teeth for wear and marring.
Close look at those interesting grips also. That really is the selling point for me personally. Like Mike mentioned. There are not a lot of them out there.
Murph
Address stamp looks right to me.
So,
I'd check the action, ejector functional, bore condition, any hint of matching numbers. Hard to believe the barrel number isn't there?
That number is well protected on the flat adjacent to the latch. Also look at the ratchet teeth for wear and marring.
Close look at those interesting grips also. That really is the selling point for me personally. Like Mike mentioned. There are not a lot of them out there.
Murph
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Action and timing are off. In cocked position lots of cylinder slop. Probably not shootable. Grips are mottled red. And there is a matching serial number barely Visible on the face of the cylinder.
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Matching numbers
If the cylinder is matching, the barrel is also likely matching.
Without hands on I can't be sure of the action issue but the most common is a lose barrel to frame fit that causes a lose cylinder lockup. If the latch/catch moves up and down, barrel side to side even slightly it will cause the condition you mentioned. It's repairable with a mild weld on the frame posts.
Time to haggle that price down some. The grips are gorgeous.
Murph
If the cylinder is matching, the barrel is also likely matching.
Without hands on I can't be sure of the action issue but the most common is a lose barrel to frame fit that causes a lose cylinder lockup. If the latch/catch moves up and down, barrel side to side even slightly it will cause the condition you mentioned. It's repairable with a mild weld on the frame posts.
Time to haggle that price down some. The grips are gorgeous.
Murph
Well, I made an offer. Now it's time to just wait and see what happens. The gun is on consignment so we know how those things go….you hear something right away or you never hear back. As was pointed out the grips were the best part of the gun.
QUOTE=BMur;141533039]If the cylinder is matching, the barrel is also likely matching.
Without hands on I can't be sure of the action issue but the most common is a lose barrel to frame fit that causes a lose cylinder lockup. If the latch/catch moves up and down, barrel side to side even slightly it will cause the condition you mentioned. It's repairable with a mild weld on the frame posts.
Time to haggle that price down some. The grips are gorgeous.
Murph[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=BMur;141533039]If the cylinder is matching, the barrel is also likely matching.
Without hands on I can't be sure of the action issue but the most common is a lose barrel to frame fit that causes a lose cylinder lockup. If the latch/catch moves up and down, barrel side to side even slightly it will cause the condition you mentioned. It's repairable with a mild weld on the frame posts.
Time to haggle that price down some. The grips are gorgeous.
Murph[/QUOTE]
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opoefc
US Veteran
If the grips are original to the gun, the serial number may be penciled on the back side of the right grip panel. If you post the ser. # you see on the frame & rear of the cylinder ( as well as the barrel, because, as Murph says, that's where a serial number is seldom worn away,) so check carefully between the "ears" on the rear of the barrel, as well as the bottom of the barrel latch. Both areas would have serial numbers that won't be worn away, if the gun's a S&W, as I beleive it is. It's also possible the red mottled grips are replacement from a revolving rifle. Post the serial number here and I may be able to tell you when the gun was made from my records of Model 3 DA production. Ed
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12543
QUOTE=opoefc;141534053]If the grips are original to the gun, the serial number may be penciled on the back side of the right grip panel. If you post the ser. # you see on the frame & rear of the cylinder ( as well as the barrel, because, as Murph says, that's where a serial number is seldom worn away,) so check carefully between the "ears" on the rear of the barrel, as well as the bottom of the barrel latch. Both areas would have serial numbers that won't be worn away, if the gun's a S&W, as I beleive it is. It's also possible the red mottled grips are replacement from a revolving rifle. Post the serial number here and I may be able to tell you when the gun was made from my records of Model 3 DA production. Ed[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=opoefc;141534053]If the grips are original to the gun, the serial number may be penciled on the back side of the right grip panel. If you post the ser. # you see on the frame & rear of the cylinder ( as well as the barrel, because, as Murph says, that's where a serial number is seldom worn away,) so check carefully between the "ears" on the rear of the barrel, as well as the bottom of the barrel latch. Both areas would have serial numbers that won't be worn away, if the gun's a S&W, as I beleive it is. It's also possible the red mottled grips are replacement from a revolving rifle. Post the serial number here and I may be able to tell you when the gun was made from my records of Model 3 DA production. Ed[/QUOTE]
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opoefc
US Veteran
32343 ??? If so, 32343 was made Sept 27, 1905, as part of a production of 100 blue guns. No mention in the records of it having red mottled stocks. Ed .
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