Here we go again

[BARTGN]

Some time back I posted about a Taurus model 85 revolver chambered for 38 sp. which would chamber 38 S&W .Had many responses saying was not possible . Well it was and after thinking about it awhile I fired it with the 38 S&W . No problem .Today I have a new S&W model 637 in front of me . It also will chamber 38 S&W . I noticed when loaded with 38 sp. the rounds were not exactly snug in the cyl. .Thought Hummm. Broke out the 38 S&Ws (Remington) ,chambered right up .Winchester 38 S&W will not chamber .I don't know what to think .

 

[snubbiefan]

Tolerance stacking. Same situation as the guys that can chamber 38-Super in a 686, or some other 357. Some can and some can't. It just depends on how far away from or close to the ammo is made to SAAMI specs. and the cylinders are reamed and it will vary from gun-to-gun....even within the same manufacturer.

In your case....the 38 S&W has a bullet diameter of .361 and the barrel was designed to fire .356-.358 slugs depending on whether-or-not you're shooting jacketed or cast slugs.

I need to add that the case diameter for the 38 S&W is booked at...like .386 where the 38-Special/357 is .379. I would expect a 38-Special to be a bit wobbly in a chamber that will accept a 38 S&W. Depending on the quality of the brass, I'd be watching for 38-Special and 357 split fired cases.

Is this what we are getting to in QC nowadays? I do not own a 357 that will chamber a 38 S&W, but all of mine are older pre-lock guns.

 

[BARTGN]

snubbie I had same situation about a year ago with a Taurus model 85 Airweight or what ever they call their alloy framed snubs . I posted on here for opinions about firing it with the 38 S&W rounds . You would have thought I had raped a baby .Anyway 38 S&W fired just fine in the Taurus . I guess the point of this post is I am disapointed to find tolerances this relaxed on a S&W .What made me even think of attempting to experiment with the 637 was the fact (as you pointed out) the 38 SP rounds didn't rattle around in the cyl. but I had seen them quit a bit tighter on others . Glad for anyone with same experance to comment.

 

[snubbiefan]

It seems to me that I may have brought this very thing up myself and as I recall, found a few shooters that said they do it all the time.....fire 38 S&W from a 357/38-Special. It certainly won't blow the cylinder apart, but I don't know what it would do to a barrel over time.

One thing I know for sure.....never say never.

 

[gwpercle]

When the "experts" claim " that can't be done " chances are very good someone someplace has done it. When you look at drawings and dimensions of different rounds you would think something may not chamber, but the different tolerances of both chambers and ammo allow it.

When I was a boy I had a bolt action 410 shotgun, a 45 colt would chamber and fire like it was made for it...accuracy wasn't nothing to write home about...no rifling . But at short range it wasn't bad.

Now they make guns to shoot 410 , 45 colt and 45 gap, and 45 acp...so it must be possible. I never say " it can't be done ".

And as for Taurus tolerances, I have a model 455, 5 shot 45acp, revolver , the chambers and throats are so tight I have to size cast bullets to .451 because if sized to .452 loaded rounds want chamber...thats tight! And because of this, it shoots better groups than my Colt Gold Cup.

Gary

 

[snubbiefan]

My dad taught me the 410/45 trick some 50+ years ago. We just could not afford the cost of the 45 ammo. but they were not that much good for squirrel-hunting anyway. If you ever hit one, you'd likely not have much to take home.

 

[625smith]

Some time back I posted about a Taurus model 85 revolver chambered for 38 sp. which would chamber 38 S&W .Had many responses saying was not possible . Well it was and after thinking about it awhile I fired it with the 38 S&W . No problem .Today I have a new S&W model 637 in front of me . It also will chamber 38 S&W . I noticed when loaded with 38 sp. the rounds were not exactly snug in the cyl. .Thought Hummm. Broke out the 38 S&Ws (Remington) ,chambered right up .Winchester 38 S&W will not chamber .I don't know what to think .

I have a few questions for you. Who is responsible for your safety? Why would you knowingly try to chamber a round that is not designed for your revolver?

 

[Tom K]

Tolerance stacking. Same situation as the guys that can chamber 38-Super in a 686, or some other 357. Some can and some can't. It just depends on how far away from or close to the ammo is made to SAAMI specs. and the cylinders are reamed and it will vary from gun-to-gun....even within the same manufacturer....

....
Is this what we are getting to in QC nowadays? I do not own a 357 that will chamber a 38 S&W, but all of mine are older pre-lock guns.

I have a couple of S&W's in .45 Colt that will readily chamber .454 Casull ammo. That's a 60,000psi round in a 12,500psi chamber. If that doesn't make your mouth go dry....

 

[BARTGN]

625smith ,Me , My 617 fires long rifle .It also fires shorts .I did not say I intended to fire 38 S&W in my 637. Read the post . I am disappointed,no embarrassed for Smith & Wesson for I have (had) held in high regard .

 

[BigBill]

If the chamber bore is on the high side of the tolerance and the brass is on the lower side of its tolerance maybe it will fit? Let's face it the 38spec. &357mag is .357" while the 38 s&w is .361" were talking .004" and a hair on our head is .003" + or - .001". I'm sure it won't hurt the forcing cone being a lower pressured round. I would like the option of shooting the 38 s&w out of the 38spec & 357mag revolver.
I wouldn't let the few extra .001" 's in the diameter bother me again the larger round being less powerful.

I did find out that some other rifle manufactures were using rifling cutters beyond there life to save $$. This is why we see so many inaccurate new rifles today. Some manufacturers will say that they accept 2" groups @ 100yds. Is ok.

When I was working we were doing the imperial measuring system on the American made products while trying to adapt to the metric system at the sametime to have a one world system for measuring within the company with the other worldwide engineering groups. We did run into a problem when the tolerances were stacked up, on the mating parts, I think now there was a tolerance problem with those who didn't understand the metric system. The Chinese put the micro fish in backwards got the coils wound in the opposite direction too. That's a language barrier for sure. I hope s&w isn't starting to use vendors in other countries?

Be aware the 38 super round being more powerful does fit in the 9mm Largo pistol chamber too. Would I shoot the 38 super round in my 9mm Largo pistols I think not.

 

[snubbiefan]

Well Bart.....you knew this was a can of worms you were opening up to begin with.

Why do people do stuff like this.....because they can I guess and yes...I would be deeply disappointed in my 357/38-Special if it would chamber and fire a 38 S&W. It's either a sloppy round or a sloppy gun.

 

[perrazi]

who cares. it's a Taurus.

 

[shawn mccarver]

625smith ,Me , My 617 fires long rifle .It also fires shorts .I did not say I intended to fire 38 S&W in my 637. Read the post . I am disappointed,no embarrassed for Smith & Wesson for I have (had) held in high regard .

S&W 22s are designed to fire 22 Shorts, Longs and Long Rifles, so there is nothing out of the ordinary about that.

Firing a bullet which is too big for your barrel, on the other hand, is not good.

 

[625smith]

625smith ,Me , My 617 fires long rifle .It also fires shorts .I did not say I intended to fire 38 S&W in my 637. Read the post . I am disappointed,no embarrassed for Smith & Wesson for I have (had) held in high regard .

I read your post that is why I asked the question. Did you think that maybe the Remington ammo is on the low end of the tolerance? Take a look at the SAAMI web site for the chamber and cartridge dimensions.

 

[BARTGN]

625amith ,I know Remington is smaller ,Winchester will not chamber . If when all this started if I had attempted to chamber Winchester I would have never given it another thought . However .....it did chamber (Remington) and my inquiring little pea brain took it from there . As i said the point of this post is to point my personal experience with shoddy Q. C. on S&W's part . Do you have any Smiths with faulty barrel alignment ? I passed on two with misaligned barrels before finding the one I have which chambers 38 S&W . See my point ?

 

[snubbiefan]

I picked-up on it Bart and I would not like it either, but I bet the gun shoots just fine (I hope). It's the same thing as the 38-Super in a 357. I was proud to discover that a 38-Super would not chamber in any of my 357's, nor will a 38 S&W. Having said that, some ammo manufactures are notorious for running small on the tolerance side. (I guess they want to make sure it fits.) I have a 9MM revolver that will chamber and fire some factory ammo without moon-clips, but some brands are built on the smallish side and will fall past the case-mouth into the chamber......those require the use of moon-clips. If the round is built to precise SAAMI specifications, the case will stop where it's suppose to, if not....it falls right on past the ridge. That's just one example of sloppy ammo manufacturing.

I don't know if any of us have asked, or you have mentioned.....how does the gun function with 38-Special?

 

[SW&Larry]

I'm a little confused.

Are not all .357 Magnums supposed to be able to chamber and fire .38 Specials perfectly fine? Or am I missing something here...

 

[snubbiefan]

That is correct.....BUT....a good one probably should not chamber and fire a 38 S&W, which is a different round than the 38-Special. We're talking two different bullets here. The 38-Special/357 fires a .356-.358 sized slug. The 38 S&W is suppose to be .361 in diameter. The 38-Special and 357 case diameters should be .379 while the 38 S&W is closer to .386.

 

[BARTGN]

SW&Larry ,Don't know how to respond to your question without sounding sarcastic . 357 was never an issue in discussion .Bone of contention was interchangeability or lack there of between 38 Special and 38 S&W ,which is a shorter and less powerful cartridge .

 

[BARTGN]

I wonder how many 38 Special owners are who read this post are trying to find a 38sw round (Remington) to see if it indeed does chamber in their pistols .