Hi, new to the forum, my 19-2 story... did I mess up?

[99tdr]

Hi all.
I've been lurking for some time, and finally joined.

I have two S&W's, 19-2 (.357) and a 17-5 (22lr) , both 4" and blue.

Planning on buying a few other S&Ws.
There was a time I could get them for a dime a dozen, geeee seems that changed!

I bought the 17-5 new.

The longer story and the "did I screw up?" comes with the 19-2..

The background....
Along with two Speed Sixes (from the 70's with 2.75 barrels in 38spc) I had my two S&W's in the safe on some foam (sandwiched between two sheets of foam for stacking).
While inactive in shooting them over a year or so, during the time in storage, they all reacted badly with the foam and developed bad pitting. Metal was raised, foam actually embedded into the corroded metal, bluing just wiped out on the Smiths for the most part, and partially on the Rugers.. oh heart broken - what a mess.

All but the 19-2 had been in very good to mint condition.

The 19-2 came with the diamond target grips.
Target trigger.
Combat smooth wide trigger.
White outline rear sight.
Red Ramp front sight.
"Target Frame" (from what I read in the S&W book , but not sure what that means, or did I read something incorrectly? )
P&R.

I did some clean up on them all to stabilize them. And applied cold bluing, then lots of oil and put them in gun sheaths (which I should have done in the 1st place… can't stop kicking myself over that).

Sent the two Rugers back to Ruger, and sent the S&Ws back to S&W.

Ruger said, don't shot 'em, can't fix 'em. We'll scrap 'em and sell you a new one for each at a special replacement rate.
For hunting I wanted a stout .375, seemed this was the good part of the bad, got a 4" GP100 .357 out of the deal, and took the other one back with the replacement offer letter for later, when I had more funds... and eventually get a 101 in .357.


S&W said they can fix them.
17 just needs refinishing.

(Now comes the heart of the story)..
And The 19 needed a lot of work, too much for me to layout at the time , considering I had the GP100 on the way. Turns out not having the 19 fixed at that time was stupid move #2.

I had figured there was something up with the 19. It started spitting lead.
So I stopped shooting it and put it into the 'fateful' storage (which was the stupid move #1 – the foam).


History of the 19-2….
I bought the 19 from a neighbor back about 1985 for $50. He was on the job and use to carry it. He got it from a partner that had retired many years before that. So it was shot and carried on the job for about 20 years before I bought it.

I occasionally put some 158grn and 125grn .357's through it, but 75% of the time .38spc wad cutters. I probably had no more than 1,000 rnds through it when I stopped shooting it due to the spitting.
S&W said the cylinder was shot out, a few chambers were expanded past the point of safely shooting it, and there was slight pitting in the cone, and the cylinder pin was bent.
Back when I 1st sent it back, they had the original recessed cylinders available!

Speed up to today…..
A few months ago, I said, I should get this thing refinished and fixed finally. So I called S&W. They said they only had a few cylinders left, and thankfully I didn't need a barrel, they could just cleaned up the forcing cone. They have no more barrels. So I sent it back in to S&W for what amounted to a restoration.

As it turned out, the few cylinders they have left, are for a 'newer' model revolver, that doesn't use the recessed cylinder. And could be fitted to my 19-2. So I lost the R on the P&R.
They had the cylinder pin still.

They did an AMAZING job cleaning the 19 up. You can't tell it was ever pitted.
No flat spots, no scars. It looks brand new. DEEP DEEP bluing. Shows well out in the sun light.

They sent back the old cylinder, and the pin.

But I was surprised by a bag of parts… internal mechanism parts and springs they replaced during rebuilding, and the rear sight. Non of which I was charged for. They completely went through the guts.

The original grips are filled with "character" from on duty carry and worn.
So I bought a set of non diamond later generation target grips from egay to finish off the "restoration".

So the question is…..
Did I do a sacrilegious thing to the 19-2 with restoration by S&W?


Here are some pix…..

For huge version of pix click on these links... (huge.. not for dial up).
k19-refinished027-lg.jpg
k19-refinished029-lg.jpg
k19-refinished042a.jpg

 

[bagolden]

That is a sad story but the bottom line is now you can shoot it and for a long time. In a more perfect world you could have had the work done when more correct parts were availible. It sounds like it was "shooter grade" when you got it and now it is a very nice looking overhauled shooter. Go forth shoot and enjoy!

B

 

[fyimo]

Very sad story but at least you could get it fixed and it wasn't junk.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

I think you did okay.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Swabby]

I agree with bagolden. It was a shooter when you got it. Now it is a safer, better looking shooter, to be proud of for sure. The bottom line is: It's your gun, you paid for it, are you happy with the final outcome? From the pictures, I think you made the best of your situation. Enjoy.

 

[VM]

Welcome to the Forum

Good lesson you learned on storage and you now have a beautiful Model 19!
Enjoy it!

 

[HAWKEYE10]

s&w really did a nice job. did they charge for
that work? i think you came out fine,now instead of a so so shooter you have a shooter to be proud of.

don

 

[HEADKNOCKER]

I'd bet you paid darn near as much for the replacement grips as you originaly did for the 19-2..
You can't go wrong with the Combat Magnum..
Congrats on the refinish..
How Does It Shoot Now??
Gary/Hk

 

[99tdr]

Thanks for the welcome and the kind words!

My family enjoys shooting the 17.
So I'm on the hunt for another 22lr. Hoping to find a 6" barrel version I can budget in to buy.

I'd like to find a nice 586 .357 in blue and give it a good home.
And a 27 .44.

I recently shot a .500 S&W Mag in a Magnum Research single shot. What fun!
So another one to add to my S&W want list.. the 500 in either a S&W or the MR.


Here's a before.... (I have only one pix of it before I sent it in).
The other side had worse pitting.
This side was the worst for the destroyed bluing.

Link to bigger pix...
k19before-lg.jpg

Yes , it's sitting on a real case I bought for it (and one for the 17) AFTER the damage was done, to try and preserve it.
It was an expensive lesson. penny wise, pound foolish.

I just bought a 1/2 dozen of the bore store cases.
I'll be sending my 17 in for refinishing next month.

Except for losing the R of the P&R, I do feel pretty good about restoring it.
Your all right, it was just a shooter before, accurate enough, and not bad looking, but well loved and well worn.
And it wore out.. so what were the choices?
I don't think it was soo collectible that being worn wouldn't effect it's value.
Then the storage damage made it an anchor for an R/C boat.
At that point I was only $50 in to.
It's history, made me not want to have it destroyed.
It wasn't safe to try and sell for parts.


The itemized quote from S&W after they reviewed it was...
$180 for the refinishing.
$130 for the cylinder.
$7 for the pin.
$60 for general labor (mostly for the fitting of the new cylinder they told me).
$7 for S&H next day air back to me.

I paid it, they went to work on it.
From the time I sent it in, it took about 7wks and it was back on my door step.

 

[99tdr]

Originally posted by HEADKNOCKER:
I'd bet you paid darn near as much for the replacement grips as you originaly did for the 19-2..
You can't go wrong with the Combat Magnum..
Congrats on the refinish..
How Does It Shoot Now??
Gary/Hk

Thanks!

Your right!
I paid $66 (with shipping) for the grips. And $50 for the 19 from my friend.

I missed a set of Diamond target grips, S&W originals, take offs that were like new on GunBroker for $100. No one bidded after a few days and the shop selling them, took the auction down with 3 days left to go.
Maybe he figured he messed up on the price?
Sold them locally?

I'd post the link, but the T&Cs say, we can't post links to outside auctions...


I waited cause I had already bid on the ones shown above, on "egay" (as I see it's called here from my lurking). And figured since I just wanted them for near original look, no need to go nutz $$ wise to get a set of diamond grips... though it would be nice.
If I bid on both and won both, would have been $illy.


I'm waiting for the 101 .357 to show up from Ruger. Then I'll hit the range with both.


The trigger feels very smooth and consistent.
Much nicer than the GP100. Always was.
I always liked the K frame with a 4" barrel, feel and balance.
I like 1911's too.
Both the 1911's and K frames are natural shooters and pointers for me. They just feel right.

I like shooting the GP100, but love shooting the K frames.

I'm interested in trying the L frame, the 586.
Never shot one.
Same for a 6" 22lr K frame.


-Bob

 

[GF]

I can't believe that's the same gun!

You did very well on getting that revo back to near new. Don't worry about what the restoration cost, sounds like your still in it for under the price of a new one.

You got spunk. You'll fit in well here.

 

[99tdr]

Originally posted by GF:
I can't believe that's the same gun!

You did very well on getting that revo back to near new.

Thanks, me too, I was floored when it came back. I can't say enough about their work.
The S&W customer service gal told me she's seen them work miracles, when we discussed how bad it was, and if it was worth it. She was right!


The 17-5 fared better, not as much pitting and what's there isn't as bad as the 19 was, but lost all it's bluing.
We still shoot it, so I need to tear it from the family's hands and send it in.
It looks green now, from the cold bluing.
While it's in there, I'll have them change it to a front red ramp and rear white outline sight.
I like the ones on the 19-2 a lot.

Originally posted by GF:
Don't worry about what the restoration cost, sounds like your still in it for under the price of a new one.

Your right, and a real good way to look at it. Tnx.

Originally posted by GF:
You got spunk. You'll fit in well here.

Thanks, I think? LOL...

I'm really impressed with the forum; the knowledge of the members and the sense of community and common sense.
So much so, it influenced me to go out and buy the S&W Standard Catalog.
So I figured it was safe to stick my toe in the water and share, and see if I did a bad thing or not.
I figured I would get good honest feedback and insight, without getting tared and feathered !

 

[pred]

I would like to see the foam that attacked your guns!
I have seen guns popped in black foam and left there for years on end with nothing happening to them....
WOW, I would have liked to see the Rugers since they were deemed unsafe to fire,
Peter

 

[99tdr]

Originally posted by pred:
I would like to see the foam that attacked your guns!
I have seen guns popped in black foam and left there for years on end with nothing happening to them....
WOW, I would have liked to see the Rugers since they were deemed unsafe to fire,
Peter

I hear ya, that's why I didn't think it was a problem and used it.

It was a white foam, a packing foam. It felt just like the black foam in the rugged cases and in the hard rifle cases I've used.

We used it to cut out and shape to ship some of our hardware where I worked at the time.
Granted , it was all painted metal.
The foam is long gone, with extreme prejudice.

I only have one pix of one of the Speed Six's...
Their pitting was deeper on the cylinder in other areas and in some areas wrapped into a chamber. I didn't take this pix to show the pitting, so it is what it is..

It's a big pix, so here's a link...
ruger ss

If you look at the front strap of the handle, you can see more of the oxidation.
And the end of the barrel. That's not wear.

 

[Nightowl]

I'm usually not in favor of refinishing a gun that has just had honest wear from use that is in otherwise good functional condition. However, as in your case, when it has been so corrupted that it is such bad condition, then a rebuild/refinish to bring it back to newish condition is a good thing. Congratulations on bringing that one back from the grave.

 

[yugolovr]

Wow that turned out great!

 

[99tdr]

Thanks Nightowl and yugolovr.

It wasn't till just after I sent the 19 out to S&W for the work, that I started to lurk around here, and saw how popular the 19 was now a days, and learned about the P&R, and how sort after these were.

So I've been seconding guessing myself if I was doing / had done the right thing.

But after everyone talking about it and weighing in, I'm glad I did it.

The only thing that I wonder about is the barrel. S&W gave it a thumbs up after cleaning up the forcing cone.

But since there are no more at S&W....
If I keep shooting 38 spc loads, and not .357, should the barrel last?

I've heard of the cone cracking (I assume from .357 hot loads?)... but not really the barrel shooting out/wearing out like my cylinder did.

Thoughts?

 

[29aholic]

99

Welcome to the forum

If you shoot cast bullet 38spl target loads through your 19 I would hazard a guess you couldnt afford to shoot it enough to wear it out. I have personally seen a Model 15 that had in the area of 100,000 rounds through it and was just as good as it was at 10.

I wouldnt worry too much about the factory being out of parts. We have them show up quite often here in our own classifieds.

 

[oldRoger]

I have seen metal parts rust on foam and flocked cardboard in my unheated garage. I think it's non-adsorbent and during the extreme humidity and temp changes condensation forms on the metal and is retained on the foam. I must keep spare saw blades in oily paper. The mounted saw blade usually is OK.
Today it will get up to 90 with about 50% hum, tonight done to 65 and hum up in high 90s%. I expect that a safe without dehumidification could be a big problem.

 

[Speedo2]

99, I think you did right by that M19; it turned out great. As others have said before, the cost of your restoration may have approached the cost of an original in similar condition, but you had a history with that gun, so your decision was a good one, IMHO. Have you considered having one of our esteemed grip refinishers have a go at your original grips? VM and KB are known for rendering superb grip restorations. Those rosewood DT's also deserve some consideration. Welcome to the forum and again, nice job on the M19; also thanks for the reminder on proper storage of S&W's. -S2

 

[Mule88]

I think you did what you needed to do, I probably would have done the same thing.

 

[99tdr]

Sorry for my delay in getting back, been a bit distracted.

Thanks for all the positive comments.

The safe they were in had a big bag of the moisture absorber in it, that I bake off once a year. It was a small 150lbs fire proof safe.
The bag was way over sized for the safe.

I'm in NY, some times we get some good humid summer days, but winters are very dry, and I have forced hot air. So late fall and early spring , the house tends to be dry too.

I wouldn't dismiss humidity as a factor, but I think if I had different foam, it wouldn't have happened. Just a feeling, and not going to test it!!

Nothing else rusted in the safe. It was amazing how the foam stuck into the corrosion and pitting. Which kept me thinking it was some reaction with maybe the oil on the surface of the gun or something. I had to peel the guns off of the foam.


I have a set of barrels for a shotgun for 20 years now, in a closed hard case, with the foam cut out to fit the barrels. It sits next to the safe in the same part of the house. Not a problem with the barrels in the foam.

My handguns are now are stacked in my long gun locker, which has more free air movement, and a large bag of the moisture absorber as well. All the handguns are sporting bore-store cases.


I'm finally getting down to the range tonight with the 19, and the sp101 that finally came in this week to replace the last SS6 I had that was damaged.

I bought some new +P 38 wad cutters for the 19.
I've got some old 357 JHP to burn off as well.

My favorite indoor range closed down, while I was on hiatus from shooting. Seems to be only one left around here.
Some have said it's run down.
I guess I'll pay for an hour, and see how bad it is.

During my recent local travels, I started hitting what few gun shops we have left, and haven't seen a m19 or any sorts or a K22.

I did get trapped by a Garand. It followed me home. Always wanted one, 20 years, finally dove in. Now I have to explain it to the "boss".

 

[parts]

Ever thought about Golden Rods instead of moisture absorbent? I'm in Alabama and humidity can be a problem. I keep a 18" Golden Rod in my safe, never had a problem.
Dave

 

[j38]

99tdr,

The bottom line is that it's your gun, your choice, and your money. You now have a beautiful Model 19 with some additional history (including photos) to pass on to the next owner - maybe a son or daughter. If S&W still stamped rework dates on the grip frame, it would resemble guns in many serious collections. I think you did just fine and hope you really enjoy that gun!

Jerry

 

[pred]

I think the Ruger in the pic looks safe to me, They were well built little tanks of a hand gun.
I am in SE.PA. and it can get real humid, I wonder if there was something in the foam whick was off the PH scale that promoted the corrosion.
Enjoy your Model 19 and keep shooting it!
Peter

 

[99tdr]

Dave (parts) ,
yes I have thought about the golden rod, but where my safe and long gun locker is, local codes don't allow outlets, not even light switches - for fear of lint causing a flash over and fire.
So I went "wireless" with the bags of absorbent.
Even after a year, the absorbent doesn't feel wet.

Jerry (j38 - Ah, I guess I know your fav frame and cal!?),
Thanks. I did at the range the other night.
It just now feels like a crime to shoot it.
While I can't say a bad thing about Rugers, I can say the K 19 was still more refined than the my two Ruger 357 ( new 101 and 100 I've had). Considering their was a bunch of lock work just replaced by S&W, it felt broken in and glass smooth. Both Rugers feel as if they still need a bit of breaking in (well the 101 is brand new, the 100 has a few hundred rounds through it). But all just as accurate and I'd never sell the rugers. But the K 19 still my confirmed fav after a night at the range. (Ok it's a tough tie for #1 with a any good 1911 45acp - I didn't bring a 1911 with me that night)

Pred,
I hear ya... but after speaking to Ruger, and the fact some of the pitting wrapped into the cylinders and forcing cone and frame above the cone, it all left me on the side of caution.
While I would never have sold them, (again, knew the LE history from their birth - but didn't personally know who carried them at times - just who the "armorer" was. I bought them when they were cleaning house of surplus for 50 bucks each. It was to be pot luck if I got 38's or 375 (they had only a few 357s and lots of 38s). I got two 38's out of luck of the draw. It was a shame what happened to them. The picture didn't show the worst of it on the one, and the other was by far worse, that I had originally replaced with the GP100 back when it 1st happened.
So, they were always just back up guns for hunting and at camp, which I really wanted 357's for. So I have no worries that I came out ahead with the Rugers.


The funniest...
I had a white gun, a little 2" J22 22lr semiauto, very low end gun, that too was effected by the foam.
It had the least amount of damage out of them all, but the oxidation did creep into the slide contact area in many points, and a few other areas - where the trigger enters the frame, and safety latch. The safety latch felt funny that night at the range - my 1st warning sign. After about 20 rounds, it literally fell apart in my hands on the last trigger pull. It just collapsed into all it's major break down pieces. Slide went down range about 5ft. I wasn't hurt, it was funnier than all heck. I was going to have it destroyed anyway, so what the heck. I found most of the pieces, put them into a doggy bag. I guess it's real safe now!