Homeowners Associations

I used to do a bunch of real estate law. I'd be very leery of a HOA. You might find a reasonable one, but there can be turnover on the board and then they can go nuts.

Problem is that in some towns, new developments have to have a HOA, because the towns don't want to provide some of the services.
 
smokindog said:
  • 83 percent would support continued legislative efforts to oversee the activities of HOAs.
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I thought Texas was supposed to be full of those that wanted to be "free" and make their own choices. Now I'm seeing this and wondering. Any group that wants more government control is a problem in my book.
 
So on the surface it would appear as you say, ... HOWEVER, you must keep the context that the government is ALSO forcing these HOAs upon you by deed restrictions.

I think most Texans would agree that eliminating the mandated HOA is the right solution but until that water can be pushed back under the bridge, there needs to be something to control these private governments. I believe they are unconstitutional myself!

Rastoff said:
I thought Texas was supposed to be full of those that wanted to be "free" and make their own choices. Now I'm seeing this and wondering. Any group that wants more government control is a problem in my book.
Click to expand...
 
smokindog said:
So on the surface it would appear as you say, ... HOWEVER, you must keep the context that the government is ALSO forcing these HOAs upon you by deed restrictions.
Click to expand...
OK, I didn't know that the government was forcing an HOA to exist. That is indeed wrong in my opinion.

smokindog said:
I believe they are unconstitutional myself!
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I disagree with this. I think that HOAs are exactly what the US Constitution is about. An HOA should be a group of people, with similar ideals governing themselves. Of course they have to do it within the context of what's legal.

On the surface an HOA is a good thing. The concept is to be used to keep the neighborhood in good condition and following a certain set of aesthetic guidelines. For example, my sister lives in an area that isn't controlled by an HOA, but they do have a historical committee. When my sister needed to replace the roof on their 110 year old home, they had to fight to get the roof they wanted. They wanted to use modern materials and the committee wanted them to use the old world slate tiles to maintain the look of the home. In the end my sister was able to use modern shingles, but had to get a certain style to make the house look right. It was a pain, but she agreed with the idea of keeping the look.

The reason an HOA isn't illegal is because you don't have to live there. Further, you can't be forced to belong to an HOA if one is formed after you already own a house.

Where I live they have CC&Rs, but they don't carry the weight of law. I've read them and agree with most, but they can't force me to follow them if I don't want to.
 
I do not believe your situation is the norm. These HOAs exist by decree of the government, are tied to the deed when the land is dedicated by the developer(s), are given powers to take property and control land owner rights, yet have no avenue of recourse. They are dangerous little banana republics. And in most large metro areas, you are forced to belong because it is the regional norm.

Rastoff said:
OK, I didn't know that the government was forcing an HOA to exist. That is indeed wrong in my opinion.

I disagree with this. I think that HOAs are exactly what the US Constitution is about. An HOA should be a group of people, with similar ideals governing themselves. Of course they have to do it within the context of what's legal.

On the surface an HOA is a good thing. The concept is to be used to keep the neighborhood in good condition and following a certain set of aesthetic guidelines. For example, my sister lives in an area that isn't controlled by an HOA, but they do have a historical committee. When my sister needed to replace the roof on their 110 year old home, they had to fight to get the roof they wanted. They wanted to use modern materials and the committee wanted them to use the old world slate tiles to maintain the look of the home. In the end my sister was able to use modern shingles, but had to get a certain style to make the house look right. It was a pain, but she agreed with the idea of keeping the look.

The reason an HOA isn't illegal is because you don't have to live there. Further, you can't be forced to belong to an HOA if one is formed after you already own a house.

Where I live they have CC&Rs, but they don't carry the weight of law. I've read them and agree with most, but they can't force me to follow them if I don't want to.
Click to expand...
 
Rastoff said:
Where I live they have CC&Rs, but they don't carry the weight of law. I've read them and agree with most, but they can't force me to follow them if I don't want to.
Click to expand...

Most of these HoA's have all manner of penalties up to, and including, a lien on your property for them "correcting" something that the owner refused to do. That puts a rock on the property which makes a sale more difficult as the lien must be satisfied (including interest) at closing. Some folks do not want the extra hassle.

I've understand that, under certain circumstances, the HoA can force the sale of one's property although I personally have never seen it.

The little fiefdoms are just that!
 
Rastoff said:
I thought Texas was supposed to be full of those that wanted to be "free" and make their own choices. Now I'm seeing this and wondering. Any group that wants more government control is a problem in my book.
Click to expand...

It might be that Texans actually recognize that the function of government is to act as a servant. It isn't a bad thing to ask for legislation to protect Citizens.

Of course, any opportunity to take a shot at Texas shouldn't be passed up, so I understand.:D
 
When I moved here I made sure that I could build a yard barn. After I moved in the HOA decided that all yard barns have to be on concrete now. They can't get the concrete to my backyard, so it has to be humped in by wheelbarrow. A yard barn is now cost prohibitive. I'd have more in the barn than the stuff I want to put in it.
 
When I moved here I made sure that I could build a yard barn. After I moved in the HOA decided that all yard barns have to be on concrete now. They can't get the concrete to my backyard, so it has to be humped in by wheelbarrow. A yard barn is now cost prohibitive. I'd have more in the barn than the stuff I want to put in it.

If you do it, come back in a year and tell us how you like it.
 
I've been around and have had my fill of HOA's both as owner and renter. I just bought a new house (hopefully my last) and as part of the search no HOA was a primary consideration. My old place in Apopka was just out of hand. Harassing letters almost weekly about the slightest infraction. Basically some old ******* with nothing better to do, other than be in other peoples business, drove around almost daily. Ultimately I bought an awesome lake house on close to an acre and no damn HOA. Of course there is some downside to no HOA if you have trashy neighbors but usually at least the town will have some minimal upkeep requirements.
 
Justinl; my first one was in an upscale area. It was a new subdivision, not gated but many folks there had gated minds.

The subdivision builder had been down the road many times, he had the covenants drawn up, set up and it was part of your deed. I did not want HOA but my wife wanted this big beautiful home I did not want HOA.

I capitulated, we bought and moved in. The builder sold the 3 model homes and the last 2 lots and appointed 3 members, a nice reasonable gent I had spoken with, a working fellas wife and me.

The 1st HOA meeting was to vote on which position we would have.
The reasonable gent stood up and said I will not serve on the same committee with my neighbor the crazy lady, I resign.

Hmm. I stood up to suggest we appoint a new member and immediately someone said I nominate you as pres, someone said I second, others said here, here.

I lived there one week, some of these folks had been there a year. I asked for volunteers, none. I asked someone to nominate someone.

The crazy lady nominated her best GF, Sgt Schultz. She was approved, someone nominated her for VP, done deal. The only job left was treasurer, crazy lady that is you.

Just so you know she was crazy krazy, not crazy fun. Actually I once told her to leave the Dorothy's of our neighborhood alone and quit sending in the flying monkees.

I really tried, I quit after a couple of months. She actually got another GF on the board they actually walked the neighbor hood with pen and clip board. They would knock on doors, your car has been on the street for 48 hours, your fence was not approved, you have to do this and things like, knock, knock, excuse me we have decided that you can only have 2 cars because we've decided all garage doors will be shut except when coming or going. I said really, that is not in our lil rule book WW of the North. So button up, get your head out of and try pumping oxygen into it.

On and On and on.

My wife was more ticked than I, we down sized, found a home that had a HOA. Well, well, I went through the neighborhood, knock, knock hi, I'm seriously considering buying the for sale home. Please tell me about the HOA, well we voted in officers, all of us paid dues and the treasurer moved out of state afte 8 or 9 months and put their house on the market they said they have receipts but all the money was spent on proper stuff. Nothing had been bought but the money was gone.

Folks said enough of donating money to potential crooks, to heck with HOA's and we have not had one since inception 5 years ago.

I inquired with what if a neighbor would paint their home purple with big ole yellow dots? We would talk to them and remind them gas is only 2.95 a gallon. We bought, know what JustinL? Folks there talked, there was only one bad apple, folks called the city on them saying rats and large beasts live in the tall grass. They would scalp it until the july heat killed the grass.

We liked the 2nd one but my wife and I agreed we would never, ever, not on a bet and free house live in another like the 1st one.

Good news, Some years ago we bought 160 acres for retirement. No HOA. A Doctor lives about 500 yards away across the highway on his 80, a big farmer lives on the 320 east of me.

I am my own HOA, my wife is VP/Treasurer. I have killed deer from the front door, in season of course. Turkeys walk across the yard. I can't wait until the spring hunt, in my mind all 3 turkeys appear to be carrying pens and clip boards, one looks like they are in charge of the flying monkeys. Again, it is my HOA rules, I just came up with another one,

DUE TO THE HIGH COST OF AMMO, NO WARNING SHOTS WILL BE FIRED.
Thank you for your cooperation.....

Run Forrest, run.
 
I moved into an HOA 2 years ago.

I'm not going to get started on this, except to say that one of the favorites phrases here is "friends don't let friends buy in an HOA" . That's from the "insiders" and "outsiders".

I decided to fight from the inside as an "agent of change", so I got myself on the board within 3 months, and am now the treasurer of a 340 residence HOA, with a bunch of the most stubborn, resistant-to-change old-timers I've ever run across. The stories could go on for thousands of words, maybe a novel size document.

It's an amazing experience. Who knew ???
 
bluegrassarms said:
All depends on the HoA and what you are looking for in a home owning experience.

if you want to be able to put up any darn thing in your yard that you want, do any additions you want, etc. then you may have issues with one. If you want your neighbors to have to keep their yard mowed and otherwise lower the externalities that a neighbor may inflict on you they can work well.

Also depends on the level of HoA. Some are all inclusive and their association maintains the yards, mows them, paints the houses, does roofs, carries group home insurance, etc. They have budgets, full time employees, maybe a clubhouse and other group amenities. Some are just a set of deed restrictions and some folks that meet at a house.

My neighborhood association is non-binding, a 501(c)3 that represents our little neighborhood with the city and acts as a mechanism to coordinate and hold events, but there are no restrictions filed on our deeds. I've also lived in one that has a Master Deed and governing document 200 pages thick in a gated community with 24 hour security, a clubhouse and pool, all the yards mowed, etc.

Look for things particular to your taste and desires in the restrictions, and if you can live with them. Some are picky about putting up satellite dishes, or paint colors, or yard maintenance. Some have mandatory dues to cover costs, or group insurance in which you'd have to participate.

That's about all I can help with without knowing more specifics about the kind of structure. I will say they can be very useful in maintaining property values by making sure the neighborhood is properly maintained and properties are not left to run down, but it's not a guarantee.

Your county clerk would have a copy of any required deed restrictions on file for the property. I would absolutely get them direct from the courthouse to be sure what is really filed and read them completely. You'd be amazed how many realtors have no idea how to explain the various kinds of HoAs and just rely on what the seller says you can and can't do.
Click to expand...

We live in an 11 house group under an HOA and this post says it all.
 
From another group I belong to:

[FONT=&quot]Hosted and produced by[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Shu Bartholomew[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]On The Commons[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is a weekly radio show dedicated to discussing the many issues surrounding mandatory homeowner associations, the fastest growing form of residential housing in the nation.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]whenever there is a problem with an out of control board, or another horror story hits the front page of the papers, proponents of involuntary membership associations remind us quite arrogantly that we "agreed" to the covenants, conditions and restrictions of the association. Again, this is simply another way of blaming the "victim". It has to be the homeowner who is reneging on his or her promise, his or her [/FONT][FONT=&quot]contractual obligation. "If they didn't like the 'rules', they shouldn't have bought into the association" they say and add "they can move." [/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Joining us On The Commons this week is Frank Short. Frank, an attorney and a long time advocate for individual homeowner rights has been following the HOA bills winding their way through the Virginia Legislature. What he found is quite shocking and disturbing. Several bills allow boards or the courts to amend declarations even when the homeowners have said, NO. The latest lament from those who feed at the HOA trough is that the homeowners really don't know what is good for them and besides, they are so apathetic, they won't approve a measure giving the board more intrusive and abusive powers. What the bills would do, if signed into law, would horrify you. Listen to Frank explain the bills and what they mean.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Three of the absolute worse bills are HB530, HB791 and HB690. FInd out who your Senator is and ask them to kill these three bills.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]On The Commons[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is broadcast every Saturday from 2-3 PM ET on Radio Fairfax. In the Northern Virginia area, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]On The Commons[/FONT][FONT=&quot] can be heard on Cox Cable, Channel 37 and Verizon Channel 37. On Comcast channel 27 in Reston in addition to several more cable channels all across Northern Virginia. To listen LIVE globally on the internet, go to http://www.radiofairfax.com and click on "Stream Radio Fairfax" and if you are on the go, on your mobile devices, Radio Fairfax - Fairfax, VA - Listen Online The show will be available on [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Home - onthecommons.us[/FONT][FONT=&quot] shortly afterwards. Please also visit our archives at [/FONT][FONT=&quot]http://onthecommons.net[/FONT][FONT=&quot] .[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Shu Bartholomew[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Host and producer[/FONT]



On The Commons is produced by OTC Multimedia Productions
 
I get that neighborhoods don't want cars up on blocks in the yard but like others have said, HOA's usually are run by folks with nothing better to do and take every opportunity to impose their will above and beyond the rules of the HOA "for our own good". Case in point:
I decided to build a deck. Got my permit from the City as required by the HOA and started work. I soon got a call from the HOA asking to see my plans. I asked why. They said they could help me with the permitting process. I told them that I had already taken care of it and if they wanted a copy I would be glad to send them one. "Well", I was told, "we want to make certain that your deck will look okay on your house."

After a spirited conversation, during which I questioned their authority as well as their parentage, I was told that "people like you are the reason we have this Association."

All during the construction, there was a minivan parked across the street with some old biddy taking pictures. Apparently, they liked my work as nothing further was said.

Remember that you are signing a legal agreement. Get your lawyer to look at it (along with the mortgage) before you proceed.
 
A friend of mine in Jacksonville ended up almost taking his HOA to court. They said he hadn't paid his dues in 11 months even though he had the cancelled checks showing he had paid. After he got an attorney and they were served, the HOA suddenly located the records that he had paid. I never asked if he got attorney fees from them.

My son lives in an HOA neighborhood outside of Charlotte. He was unloading some stuff to do work in his backyard so his Durango was backed up to the fence gate when the guy rode by on his golf cart. He ended up with a notice and fine for "Parking Off The Driveway." He went to the next meeting and beat that one. The Golf Cart Nazi, as my son calls him didn't like his notice being overturned so right after that my son got a notice his grass wasn't green enough. His grass was mowed, no bare spots in the yard or anything. He got out and took pictures of his yard and neighbors yards who had large bare spots, brown patches of grass, etc. Needless to say, he beat that one also at the HOA meeting. He said the Golf Cart Nazi has left him alone since then.

Personally, I would never live in a neighborhood with a HOA. My grass might need mowing, the house might need a touch of paint and it will get done but on my schedule, not yours.

CW
 
The term " Condo Commando " may have began with some of these HOA's. Having lived under their rules and had issues with them, sued and won to boot I wouldn't be one to go for it again friend. I also saw two board presidents shot and killed in my 25 years in Florida and when you peeled back the layers, the shooters had been literally screwed with by these folks for YEARS. Sad but no sympathy.
 
I know one lady who lives in a home with an HOA. In that one, if they leave their garage door open for more than 20 minutes, they get a call. If they do it twice, they get a fine.

What kind of a loser has time to sit around with a stopwatch checking how long your garage door is open?
 
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