How can I improve my 100 yard groups?

[rct269]

My AR is a Colt Sporter (20" I believe). It's as stock as a stove, not counting a Trijicon ACOG and a decent trigger. I shoot factory ammo of all kinds, having never taken the time to see what it might like best. It routinely produces 1/2-3/4 " groups at 100 yards--just so long as I shoot slow enough to avoid heating up the barrel. The group size increases DRAMATICALLY with heat----might as well be throwing rocks.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Mike0251]

2 rounds to warm barrel, then let cool for 5 minutes after you send 5 rounds if your shooting for super accuracy. From the look of your target add one click left, 2 clicks down to start. Add a small soft bag under the rear of the butt stock and use left had to squeeze the bag for tiny adjustments. This is where your left hand stays. Most important is the trigger and then breathing! A heavy trigger pull weight will negate any tiny adjustments prior to sending the round and your just driving yourself nuts otherwise.

What is your intended use? If it is for hunting or self protection your in the ball park! If your trying for something super accurate one hole shooting that's not the gun. AR chambers unless you buy a high end barrel are fairly loose. And then you have what's referred to as bullet jump (the distance from the ogive of the bullet to the start of the rifling). That requires you to measure with a gauge your chamber and then to make sure all your rounds are the same length from base to ogive. Again for a stock AR your shooting pretty darn good with 4X.

This is from my "bone stock" Ruger RPR with high end glass (Nightforce) and my reloads at 100 yards. It's crazy accurate and I'm not quite done with the load development, almost. That elusive 5th shot was breathing.

 

[H Richard]

Without making any changes to the gun, have you used a "rear bag". The rear bag goes directly under the heel of the rifle, and should not be filled tight. It should have enough room to move the contents (sand) around, and with your left hand squeezing and manipulating the rear bag that is how you adjust your aim point. The front bag should also not be "tight", but with enough play for the rifle to rest into the bag without moving.

Next is the trigger, less than 3 lb is where you want to be, and considering the type of shooting even less. (If you have to pick the gun up and move with it, keep it in the 3 lb area).

My rifle shooting is primarily Prairie Dogs, range from 50 yards to 500 yards. My 22-250 shoots around a 1/4" at 100 yards. Developing a load to fit your rifle is another entire matter.

 

[Drm50]

Making every thing uniform and precise will help accuracy in any mode. Benched or offhand. There are guns, individual and models that you just can't wring target type accuracy out of. Same thing with scopes. Don't forget there are guys with serious money into getting target accuracy out of their rifle. Unless you get one of a million you aren't going to get that kind of accuracy out of box on production line rifle

 

[sgtsandman]

You can do a trigger job on the factory trigger. It's been posted a few times on here. I think in the M&P15 section. I went the replace the trigger with a better model route.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Noting wrong with a Bipod.........
I use one all the way out to 800 yards with stock 270 and 30-06 hunting rifle.
However the non-trigger hand is not on the hand guard and moved back to support the trigger hand and stock area to keep stock movement to a minimum off a bench table.
You don't need a Gold Dot "Best Choice" 168 gr.bullet out of a rifle to have a load with enough energy for a person for SD.
A 125 or 150 gr .308 bullet is plenty for any in home to 300 yard work, in your rifle with a proper bullet design but if that is all that you have right now, go for it.
However you might want to try some lighter weight bullets that have less recoil than that 168 gr bullet, if you can find any and maybe save a little money.
As for a custom trigger, yes they will help.......
but you should give the stock trigger a chance and maybe get it polished if you have to, before going the route of a new trigger.
Lots of shooting time will teach you where your trigger takes up the "Slop" and when it will "Break"...... use snap caps if needed, for dry fire practice to get those cross hairs "Fine tuned".
The difference of a normal shooter and a Great Marksman is.........
time with his rifle.

 

[Culina]

if you think that you are the problem, I would recommend getting a nice two stage match trigger.

 

[BillyMagg]

Certainly looks like you're on the right track. Nice shooting using a 4x optic. More time pulling the trigger to get used to your rifle will help a great deal.
If you are interested in learning to shoot from different positions, other than from a benchrest, see if you can find a CMP group in your area. I have found those shooters to be very willing to help a new shooter out learning shooting from different positions. Marksmanship will then carry over to other shooting types.

I just like the truck hood, lol, but you are on the right track, and all great advice,,, only trouble with the truck hood is its damn heavy to drag around the woods!

 

[Snidely Whiplash]

It's all about the trigger.

After re-reading suggestions everyone here was kind enough to give me that was the phrase running through my head on the way to the range today. While shooting I focused on fundamentals but specifically trigger control. I was dumbfounded at the difference it made. Absolutely dumbfounded. Attached is a picture of my 100 yard group. After my last frustrating range trip I left today with a smile on my face.

I can't thank you guys enough for the help. It's an honor to be a part of the 2A / shooting community such as you guys here who have been so kind and helpful with your advice and suggestions.

(Sorry the picture is sideways. I didn't know how to rotate it)

 

[JJEH]

How can I improve my 100 yard groups?

Your groups look really good. Since I don't know you nor your equipment the only advise I can give you is to practice practice practice. And if in doubt practice more.

And from my experience I'd rather shoot from a bag than a bi-pod. Unless it's a machine gun. But the bi-pod is too wobbly and I can't get it sturdy.

Just my 2 cents.

Good shooting, keep it up.

 

[The Norseman]

Not Social Distancing

Congratulations! That is good! I looked at the first Post, and
now the new one. That is an improvement.

Thank you for the Update. The Best to you and your Endeavor.

 

[CB3]

Your horizontal spread appears to be about 1/2", which is outstanding. Your ammo suits your gun.

If you can shoot 1/2" horizontal, you can do the same vertically. Your trigger work does not impact vertical spread. So what does?

It is often uneven vertical pressure on the barrel, even through the stock. I suspect that is caused here by shooting from your bipod. Atlas is a top of the line piece of gear. But if it is mounted way out on your fore end, and your barrel is not 100% free floated, that can definitely cause such vertical stringing with differences in "loading" forward pressure on your bipod.

That pre-loading will also negatively impact your Natural Point of Aim (NPOA). To load a bipod you have to muscle forward into it.

Another cause of vertical stringing can be breath control. The old directive to take breath, let it out halfway, then squeeze the trigger is not very accurate. What is halfway? Can you duplicate 1/2 way each time? Most of us cannot. So, let your breath all the way out—bottom out. Easier to duplicate. You will have 3-4 seconds to operate the trigger before oxygen deprivation sets in and you start shaking.

So, try shooting from a bag positioned about 1/2 way under your fore end. Get NPOA, breathe and watch your scope move, usually from 1 o'clock (empty lungs) to 7 o'clock (full, natural breath). Adjust your physical position so the gun stops moving, empty lungs, on center target. Do this three times exactly the same before shooting each time. Adjust your position if you're not perfect three times in a row. Fourth time with empty lungs, press the trigger straight to the rear.

I'll bet you can reduce that group to a wall hanger of which you can be even more proud. Good luck.

 

[sgtsandman]

Another tip I just thought about is to set yourself and the rifle so it is naturally pointed at the target. Any time you have to muscle the rifle onto the target, you are building in error. Set yourself and the rifle up and look at the target. Is the sights or the cross hairs on the target and reasonably centered? if not, adjust yourself and the rifle so it is. It won't be perfectly centered but the less you have to force the sights on the target, the more accurate you will be over and over again.

 

[CB3]

I thought some more about your vertical stringing.

I believe the ACOG model you have has green crosshairs, right? There are better targets for a clearer sight picture for your purposes, photo attached, assuming you have green crosshairs

I think your scope is 3.5x rather than 4x, but that's not too significant. The eye relief is 2.5". This helps with speed as this is a somewhat generous amount of head placement behind the scope while still seeing the full scope without black edges. That may be part of the problem. Such forgiveness comes at a cost in accuracy. Make sure your cheek weld on the stock and head position are exactly the same for best target accuracy. You may have vertically slightly changed your head position shot-to-shot.

ETA: Is your collapsible stock tight when locked, or wobbly?

Your gun is probably still breaking in. With some barrel cleaning between range visits, it should take about 75 rounds to settle. They don't have to be high dollar ammo. Milsurp will do. Just cycle that action and condition the bore by firing. And dry fire at home and on the range. The trigger will improve, but it may take a few hundred pulls to really note the difference.

It will be hard to find a .308 battle rifle to handle shots to 400+ yards without it weighing what your's does. If you are changing your intended purpose from a combat rifle to a range rifle, then an aftermarket trigger and higher magnification scope might be a good idea, eventually. However, if you can shoot 1 MoA with it in its current configuration, you should be very pleased. It doesn't need any better hardware.

It would be helpful to know in what order those shots hit that last target. If the first was dead on and each succeeding shot went higher, that is noteworthy. Also, knowing how much time you took between shots. Your barrel may have heated up if you shot them all in 30 seconds. That could string shots vertically.

Also, make sure your muzzle device is tight. If it's loose that would affect barrel harmonics and could string shots.

My last suggestion for accuracy potential is to shoot the gun single shot. With the bolt locked back, insert a loaded mag, release the bolt, remove the mag. This does two things: it allows you to get lower in your bags (without a mag sticking down so far), and it will give you consistent pressure on the bolt, i.e., zero, from a loaded mag spring. This makes cartridge seating in the chamber more consistent, and that can increase accuracy, a little.

Clean your barrel. Go to the range and test your complete set up and firing discipline with repeated dry firing with no movement of the crosshairs at the trigger break. On a separate target, warm and condition your clean barrel with two perfectly aimed shots. This will also check your zero. With 1/3 MoA clicks on your ACOG, it looks like you could come left 2 clicks. You may need to come down up to 4-5 clicks if that vertical string was not consistently upward.

Real accuracy is statistically more significant if you shoot 10 rounds. To avoid heating the barrel, after each perfectly aligned shot (after follow through), retract and lock the bolt. This will help cool the barrel. Check the target with a spotting scope or even 10x binos and record each shot by number on a duplicate mini target on the bench. Load one round and get back to NPOA. Same head position behind the scope. Breathe. Fire. Each of your shots should be about 1 minute apart. Shoot five and take a break for a few minutes, bolt open. Go back and repeat for another 5 rounds.

This is not combat shooting. It is a test of the maximum accuracy potential from both you and your rig. I think you have the potential to be at 1 MoA, discounting a called flyer (you knew you jerked or fired when sights were slightly misaligned). Make a note on your duplicate target when you shoot a flyer as to why it was off.

I look forward to seeing your next target(s).

Redirect Notice

 

[BigBill]

My accuracy test ammo is 308 South African FMJ ball ammo. If any of my 308 rifles can be accurate with this surplus ammo it's good. Haven't seen any lately. Or test over the counter new ammo till you find one that's accurate. In my 6.5 swedish Mauser the new s&b 131 gr sp ammo will shoot 1 1/2" 5 shot groups no scope at 100 yds. My Remington 700 in 338wm will put two bullets in the same hole at 100yds using new Winchester super X 225 gr psp at 100 yds.

Besides that the only way is to reload using match grade boat tail FMJ bullets. If it's not accurate with new ammo.

My old 1972 western Auto Revelation mossberg 30-06 bolt action will shoot nickle 5 shot groups at 100= yds benchrested with my reloads if I do my part. Not bad for a $175 gun New with scope.

I made my own gun rests and pull the gun straight down into the rests at the sametime adjusting the rear rest till the sights line up at 100 yds. I used 2"x 10" fir vee shaped padded with old pants. And the rear rest is 2" x6" fir vee shaped narrow so it holds the rear of the stock, it's padded too. It's a rock solid rest.

Controlling your breathing is next. One deep breath, let it out, another deep breath let it halfway out, hold and shoot.

 

[soonerbb]

Proper eye relief and a natural head position on the stock, do you know what your length of pull is? Welcome to the forum...

 

[ERO1052]

I'm relatively new to my rifle and haven't shot for many years. I was at an outdoor range today and was able to bench shoot at 100 yards (attempting to zero my rifle).

I have an M&P 10 Sport with a 4x Trijicon LED ACOG (TA110-D-100502) and an Atlas Bipod. I'm using Speer Gold Dot 168 grain ammunition.

Attached is a picture of one of my 5 round groups. Should I be happy with rounds into the 10 ring at 100 yards or is there a way to improve my groupings? I make an effort to fire during an exhale pause and I have a good site picture. Maybe not great with 52 year old eyes.

For perspective, the center orange circle of the targets is about the size of a quarter.

1st time out with my stock M&P 10 shot a best group of 1-1/2" at 100 yards. I think a better trigger is called for other groups spread out to 3+ inches. I'm a trigger snob after shooting bullseye with a Walther GSP and two very nice 4# 1911s. The M&P trigger is like dragging a brick through the sand. Great weapon otherwise and excellent value.

 

[BigBill]

Put a tad of moly paste on your trigger sear.