how concealed is concealed?

A word of advice for those who have not yet concealed carry. The whole concept is that others are unaware that you are armed. This can give you an advantage in some situations. But you must be proficient in both your gun handling skills and your judgement. Initially you will be very conscious of you reason. It does not give you a license to look for trouble or act like a LEO. You will have to live with the results of your actions for the rest of your life. Also keep in mind, that to arriving officers you are just another threat with a gun....

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As has been said in earlier posts, most people are totally oblivious to any details of what is going on around them. That is a big plus. If you want to keep from drawing attention then don't wear every bit of NRA or firearm advertising gear you own when you are CC. This may not be necessary in gun friendly states but here in NY it is what I do. If someone happens to notice the lump in my cargo short pocket I want the next thought to be- cel phone. Not be speculating b/c of the hat & t-shirt I'm wearing.
 
As has been said in earlier posts, most people are totally oblivious to any details of what is going on around them. That is a big plus. If you want to keep from drawing attention then don't wear every bit of NRA or firearm advertising gear you own when you are CC. This may not be necessary in gun friendly states but here in NY it is what I do. If someone happens to notice the lump in my cargo short pocket I want the next thought to be- cel phone. Not be speculating b/c of the hat & t-shirt I'm wearing.

That made me think of those paracord survival bracelets I've seen. Every time I've seen someone wearing one, my first thought is, "Gun guy." (I've never seen a woman wearing one). Would anyone not familiar with them notice or pay attention? Maybe...maybe not. Something to consider, though. Context and environment should be part of the consideration process, imo.
 
the factual answers to your question may be obtained by contacting your state and/or local police.

Or possibly not. In my limited experience, individual officers may not be conversant with the intricacies of state law and municipal ordinances covering firearms. Better to consult the actual laws and ordinances in your locality. The local district attorney, or a private attorney who specializes in criminal law, may be better sources if you want to ask direct questions. No disrespect to LEOs.
 
the factual answers to your question may be obtained by contacting your state and/or local police.


Not really; his best source would be an attorney in his state who knows the law - most police do not know all the nuances.
 
Cost is a factor, but not the most important factor. Have you had a serious talk with yourself about your ability to kill someone?

While no sane person desires to kill or injure another, in extraordinary conditions, when other options are not available, I believe that I would want to have the means available.
Thanks to all for the very enlightening posts. Good, thought provoking information.
 
the factual answers to your question may be obtained by contacting your state and/or local police.

No disrespect to LEOS intended but in many cases they are not who to ask. Many only know the more important (to them) parts of the law, and what they do not know they improvise and that normally leans to the in many cases a tougher read on things.

I base this on my time as a instructor for the NYS pistol permit safety class, general instructor and long time range officer and member of a few gun clubs

Just recently a friend was stopped, a tail light out and as he knows the drill told the deputy he was armed. Deputy asked where was the gun (ISWB right side) and where was his permit (left side rear pocket) Deputy told him to carefully remove his wallet and get out his permit. My friend very carefully complied.

Gave permit to the deputy and was then told he was carrying illegal as it did not say none restricted on it. This was a younger deputy and all he ever saw was the newer credit card type permits and those in some counties are marked hunting/target shooting only or none restricted. He like me has a much older paper permit and if they are not marked they are in fact none restricted.

Deputy was going to make a report about this and told him he will probably loose his permit for carrying concealed. My friend finely got him to contact the station before he made a mistake as my buddies permit was non restricted. Got told over the radio all was well. There are many more LEOS out there that have never seen a paper permit and lets face it you can talk with them but cannot argue.
 
Concealed carry is mostly about common sense.

It might be worth your time to hang out in your car in the parking lot of a store like Academy, Scheels, Gander Mountain, Cabelas, or Bass Pro Shop where they sell firearms and reloading supplies. These are places that tend to congregate people who conceal carry as many of them are also avid shooters. You'll see the same folks at Walmart or the local grocery store, they are just more highly concentrated in stores that sell guns, ammo and reloading supplies.

In any case, observe people getting out of their vehicles and walking to the door. Here are the things you'll see that will loudly announce "I'm conceal carrying".

1) checking his shirt when you get out of the vehicle and in particular checking one side and not the other (usually right side as 80% of people are right handed).

2) checking his shirt once or twice more on the way into the store.
Bonus points to the guy who looks around to see if anyone noticed him checking his shirt 3 times (feel free to give him a friendly wave when he looks your way.

4) dressing unseasonably warm for the weather just to have cover garment.

5) wearing one of those tactical, photographer or fisherman style vests (unless of course he looks like an actual fly fisherman).

6) dressing like an "operator" complete with logo'd ball cap or t-shirt with a punisher graphic or some sort of tactic-cool graphic. Bonus points for the instructor belt. More bonus points for the slow scan for threats as he walks from car to store. Odds are that guy is carrying even if you don't see any signs of the gun.

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After you've figured out some of the more obvious ways not to dress and act by observing the parking lot and the door, go inside as that can be just as educational.

At close range, if you are looking for them, you'll spot the belt loops and belt clips of IWB tuckable holsters where the shirt is tucked in over the handgun. Also note that even though you know what's lurking underneath, no one else is noticing or caring. For example, I was in an elevator once and had a lady ask about the metal belt clip for my IWB holster. She was curios, not suspicious and I told her it was for my TENS unit and we had a nice elevator conversation about back pain. That's the one and only time any one ever remarked on it (I've been conceal carrying for 31 years), and having a ready explanation avoided having a conversation about concealed carry, and would have also covered any visible bulge.

Most people don't go around staring at people's belts. The few folks that see a belt clip or belt loop, won't think twice about it - unless they also conceal carry, or live with someone who conceal carries, and in either case they won't care that you are conceal carrying.

If you look around for people with un tucked shirts and look closely you'll probably spot some folks conceal carrying due to a slight bulge, or perhaps a harder edge printing now and then. Also note that no one is freaking out about that either. The vast majority of people are not going to notice a slight print, particularly if you look like a normal person rather than a potential threat.

There are limits however. The other day I was in a store and I noted an averaged over weight middle aged white guy with an average hair cut and no beard wearing shorts and a polo shirt with an average looking 6 or 7 year old kid beside him. All pretty normal, except he was standing in the gun section of the store looking at handgun ammunition, which prompted me to look at his waistline. Low and behold there was an incredibly obvious bulge under his short caused by his tactical tupperware Kydex OWB holster holding what appeared to be a Glock, based on the shape of the grip printing through the shirt.

I suspect he was fairly new at the whole concealed carry thing. I hope he also shopped two isles down where they had an ample selection of IWB holsters, and also took the time to look at some of their Magellan and Columbia short sleeve shirts that also look nice untucked, are loose enough fitting to fully conceal your handgun, and don't look out of place around town in the summer.

I own a half dozen of those and the fit in well in eastern NC in the summer months. In the winter, I lean more toward my western roots and tend to dress in western boots, jeans, long sleeve shirt, western vest and hat. Even eastern NC has its share of cowboy and ranch types and it's not out of place. The vest covers the handgun, and if people notice anything it's the boots, vest and hat. I get lots of appreciative comments on the boots and hat. No one notices the 2.5" Model 66 or 2.5" 686+ I normally carry in the winter months.

There's no such thing as perfect concealed carry, and there is no one size fits all answer. But you'll seldom go wrong if you dress the way other people around you dress, dress appropriately for the weather, avoid looking like a walking advertisement for 5.11 Tactical, and take care not to do things that suggest you might be carrying a handgun - and the key to that is to not obsess about it. That'll get easier after with time and after a year or two you'll stop thinking about it entirely.
 
The only time I worry about partial concealment is in the post office.:D
As others have mentioned, it's a state by state issue.
 
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I'll agree. This phenomena is primarily due to most young cops, and actually most cops in general, not being gun guys. I know one deputy out of 30 in my county that would be able to answer that question 100% correctly. Everybody else would have to ask him. Of course, this is true about many other areas of the law, such as traffic law, search warrants, surveillances, etc. There's usually one or two fellas on the department who are the go to . . .

No disrespect to LEOS intended but in many cases they are not who to ask. Many only know the more important (to them) parts of the law, and what they do not know they improvise and that normally leans to the in many cases a tougher read on things.

I base this on my time as a instructor for the NYS pistol permit safety class, general instructor and long time range officer and member of a few gun clubs

Just recently a friend was stopped, a tail light out and as he knows the drill told the deputy he was armed. Deputy asked where was the gun (ISWB right side) and where was his permit (left side rear pocket) Deputy told him to carefully remove his wallet and get out his permit. My friend very carefully complied.

Gave permit to the deputy and was then told he was carrying illegal as it did not say none restricted on it. This was a younger deputy and all he ever saw was the newer credit card type permits and those in some counties are marked hunting/target shooting only or none restricted. He like me has a much older paper permit and if they are not marked they are in fact none restricted.

Deputy was going to make a report about this and told him he will probably loose his permit for carrying concealed. My friend finely got him to contact the station before he made a mistake as my buddies permit was non restricted. Got told over the radio all was well. There are many more LEOS out there that have never seen a paper permit and lets face it you can talk with them but cannot argue.
 
THE LETTER OF THE LAW VS THE REALITY OF THE MOMENT.

Here in Fl I take concealed as the gun not being visable, printing OK. At times I've simply covered it with a bandana or ball cap, not that it will fool anyone but it is technically concealed. At any time confronted with a LEO I go along with things being what they say they are, at that time/place. The time for debate is with a judge & Lawyers and I'd rather not spend the weekend in a holding cell awaiting a chance to prove my innocence. I don't feel the need to push the envelope or OC, even if legal in a town or shopping mall, just cuz I can.
 
Most states that have concealed/open carry do not care about
so called "Printing". Once you have open carry, it becomes a moot point.
I never got the "Printing" thing anyway. If you bend over,
twist the wrong way reaching for a case of bud in the local
Walmart you are going to print.
Me, I carry under an oversized short sleeved shirt in the summer.
Blackie

NC is an open carry state, BUT display can result in a charge of GATTTOP. It is a matter if the court agrees with a prosecutor if the persons exposure of a concealed handgun is terror/threat.

IMO if in a OC state, and a person is going to conceal the guns should stay concealed unless justified otherwise. OC is not a crime in NC, as long as the gun stays holstered. Start playing with it will probably result in at the very least a police detention.
 
Not at all a simple subject. In my location, most of the factors mentioned above apply, not always in the same way. In another location, even in the same state, almost every factor would vary.

In MA, open carry is legal. It's also stupid, because your local chief of police controls the restrictions on your carry permit, and almost controls whether you get one at all. I'm sure that mine does not approve of open carry, because he said so once to a highly reliable source whom I know well. This, while approving the concept of concealed carry.

While BB57 wrote well above about what some folks call shoot-me vests, I don't think that it always applies in all MA locations. I am probably living proof of that, as are others.

I believe that the wide-spread use of cell phones and I-phones has increased the incidence of covered bulges and square edges. This perhaps helps a little when one of us is a little careless.

Your mileage WILL vary if you are in a different location.
 
I've got a pet Mini-Macaw. She is bright green and loves to sit on my shoulder when I go to the store and a few other places. I've had people look right at me and not see the 16" bird sitting on my shoulder until she moves or says something.

I don't worry about the jframe in my pocket. Just saying!

That being said, check Illinois state law to see what is legal. It differs from state to state.
 
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BB57 made some good points....... as did Iggy.................

I've had my licence here in Pa since 1978... after getting out of law school.

Use to wear the infamous "shoot me first vests" a lot....... pockets are great........car keys, reading glasses, honey do list, pager/later a phone....... in the 90s an extra dipper and small pack of wipes.....still use one a lot at the cabin/Laurel Highlands.

these days at 60+; it's oversize LL Bean flannel lined shirts or fishing shirts......pockets ....... got to have pockets........ reading glasses are now a must and sun glasses and phone are needed.... still get shopping/honey do lists..........

Today everyone has bulges under their shirts/suits....... no one notices or cares......just don't fuss with you gun/holster to the point someone asks you what's wrong....... if it happens ...... go with Iggy's answer!!!!!! :D
 
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