HP38/Win231

[dwpmusic]

Never done this and just wanted to ask. I know HP38 and Win231 are the same powders but I've never mixed the two together. I've got just a little W231 left in the powder reservoir and rather than run it dry I was thinking about adding some HP38 to it. Would that be OK? Thanks for your thoughts from a fairly new reloader.

 

[OKFC05]

I don't mix two batches of the same powder, which is what you would most likely be doing. Check the batch numbers on the containers to be sure.
Why not?
When you change batch numbers, the density varies, possibly significantly. If the first batch was at the lowest allowable density and the second is at the max allowable density, you now have a hotter load than you intended. Load recipes are by WEIGHT, not VOLUME.

ALWAYS RECALIBRATE YOUR VOLUMETIC POWDER MEASURE WITH A SCALE WHEN YOU CHANGE BATCHES OF POWDER.

 

[arjay]

When I run low on BE or Unique,I take the bit that's left, add it to a full pound of the same powder and mix it thoroughly.Whether that's safe with two that are supposedly the same powder-I dunno!

 

[dwpmusic]

Thanks. That's a definitive enough answer for me. I really wasn't considering batch numbers. Thanks for you input.

 

[JBnTx]

I had about 10 tablespoons of 231 left, so I just poured it into a new can of HP38 and shook it up.

Shot it in 9mm and 45acp with no problems.

 

[growr]

The horror of such an unsafe practice!!

How can you possibly consider mixing together two identical powders with different model numbers?

Aren't you supposed to take the small amount left and throw it into the garden/yard as fertilizer?

Randy

PS. Yes, I am being sarcastic and have done it for years with NO problems ever!

 

[dwpmusic]

That's just about exactly what I have left in 231. Finally scored 4lbs of 231 but I've got 2 1lb HP38 and wanted to use them up before opening the new 231. It looks as if things are opening up a little as far as being able to buy Win231. That's about all I use. Just a little past a beginner here. Thanks for you thoughts.

 

[alwslate]

As already mentioned when you mix 231 and HP38 you're not mixing
two powders, just two different lots of the same powder. There's
virtually nothing to worry about if you mix your left over 231 and HP38.
Since ball powder has a very long shelf life you might consider doing
this; take an empty 8 lb jug if you have one or other suitable container,
pour your new 4 lbs of 231 and your 2lbs of HP38 in it, shake well
and then refill your original containers. You now have 6 lbs of the
same powder. Life is good, enjoy.

 

[Skeet 028]

I was once loading 45 auto on my Dillon Super 1050. Was down very low on powder... so opened a new can/bottle of 231 and dumped it in the measure... never thinking. Checked my powder charges after a couple hundred and the weight had gone from 5.4 gr to 6.6 gr. Different lot of powder. Luckily I only had 250 loaded with the 2nd batch so had to tear them down as 6.6 gr is waaayyy too much. Started over with another of the original lot number and the charge was back to 5.4. Mixing the same powder is ok...but ALWAYS check the weight of powder when changing lots. Even after mixing those powders

 

[alwslate]

I was once loading 45 auto on my Dillon Super 1050. Was down very low on powder... so opened a new can/bottle of 231 and dumped it in the measure... never thinking. Checked my powder charges after a couple hundred and the weight had gone from 5.4 gr to 6.6 gr. Different lot of powder. Luckily I only had 250 loaded with the 2nd batch so had to tear them down as 6.6 gr is waaayyy too much. Started over with another of the original lot number and the charge was back to 5.4. Mixing the same powder is ok...but ALWAYS check the weight of powder when changing lots. Even after mixing those powders

5.4 to 6.6 just because of two different lot numbers? Sounds
like some other factors involved, just saying. Anyway I
remember when 231 first came out and Winchester said it
was formulated to give consistant ballistics from lot to
lot by volume, not weight but most handloaders must not
have read the original Winchester product information.

 

[jimbo728]

I don't mix two batches of the same powder, which is what you would most likely be doing. Check the batch numbers on the containers to be sure.
Why not?
When you change batch numbers, the density varies, possibly significantly. If the first batch was at the lowest allowable density and the second is at the max allowable density, you now have a hotter load than you intended. Load recipes are by WEIGHT, not VOLUME.

ALWAYS RECALIBRATE YOUR VOLUMETIC POWDER MEASURE WITH A SCALE WHEN YOU CHANGE BATCHES OF POWDER.

Absolutely correct. Even the same powders from different containers will have varying density affecting weight of the powder charged dropped. I have compared this and found it to be true.
Jim

 

[H Richard]

Canister powders for retail sale are designed and produced to be "consistent" lot to lot, or none of the loading manuals would be worth the paper they are printed on. It has been this way for well over the 30+ years I have been reloading. 4.3 gr of 231 behind a 200 gr H&G cast SWC in a 45 acp has hit the same point of aim for all of those years, and probably over 100 lbs of powder.

 

[Skeet 028]

The ONLY factor was the powder lot change. I dumped the offending powder and went back to another pound jar of the same lot...and back to 5.4 avg. They may have said lot to lot by volume...but that just seemed like too much variance. I did use that same powder later with the measure made to throw 5.4 and it shot just fine. I also used a few pounds of Winchester 230 I got for a dollar a pound at 5.2 grains and it shot fine too. Never changed the measure from the 5.4 setting. 2 tenths is acceptable..1.2 grains?? Not so much

 

[Moe Mentum]

Being anal as i am, when I get low on one batch of power, I will hand load with dippers until its all gone. I just don't want to get into the habit of mixing the wrong powders one day.

 

[OKFC05]

Canister powders for retail sale are designed and produced to be "consistent" lot to lot, or none of the loading manuals would be worth the paper they are printed on. It has been this way for well over the 30+ years I have been reloading. 4.3 gr of 231 behind a 200 gr H&G cast SWC in a 45 acp has hit the same point of aim for all of those years, and probably over 100 lbs of powder.

Exactly my original point. All reloading charts are by WEIGHT, and the same WEIGHT of powder gives consistent results. NOBODY publishes reloading data by VOLUME.
The VOLUME for a given WEIGHT of powder is what varies from lot to lot. Most of the time when I check a new lot, it isn't all that different. The densities seem to follow essentially a Gaussian distribution, with most near the median.

But sometimes, the new batch is a grain or more off from the previous one for the same volume, which may be significant. DO YOU FEEL LUCKY?
What's the first thing you do with a volumetric measure? ADJUST it with a good scale so it throws the right WEIGHT.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I will mix same powders of different lot numbers and have for a long time. This is why we pay more for name brand powders on the shelf instead of surplus none canister powders.

 

[alwslate]

The ONLY factor was the powder lot change. I dumped the offending powder and went back to another pound jar of the same lot...and back to 5.4 avg. They may have said lot to lot by volume...but that just seemed like too much variance. I did use that same powder later with the measure made to throw 5.4 and it shot just fine. I also used a few pounds of Winchester 230 I got for a dollar a pound at 5.2 grains and it shot fine too. Never changed the measure from the 5.4 setting. 2 tenths is acceptable..1.2 grains?? Not so much

"The ONLY factor was the powder lot change." I don't know
anything about your setup but I beg to differ. You went from
wayyyy low in your powder measure to filling from a new lot,
and new bottle of powder in a measure on a progressive
loader that is not noted for the precision of certain other
powder measures. Nuff said.

 

[dwpmusic]

One thing I've appreciated about this forum is the participation of its members. I've never posed a question that I didn't get a number of responses. There is a world of knowledge here and everyone, without a doubt, knows more than I do. I appreciate all your input.

 

[DWalt]

"Aren't you supposed to take the small amount left and throw it into the garden/yard as fertilizer?"

When will that urban myth ever become dead and buried? Smokeless powder has absolutely no value as a fertilizer. Black powder, maybe, but never smokeless. It's insoluble, and cannot release nitrates into the soil.

 

[DWalt]

Having been in the smokeless powder manufacturing industry (with Hercules, back in the day) for some years, I know it would be very unusual, and in fact nearly impossible, for any significant lot-to-lot variances in bulk density to occur with the same propellant, especially so for canister powders made for sale to reloaders. No powder manufacturer has quality control practices that bad. Canister powders are blended to produce very similar lot ballistic and physical properties over time for the same propellant, so the can of Bullseye you buy today is going to be virtually identical in all respects the the can of Bullseye you bought 10 years ago. Not so much for powders made for the ammunition manufacturers, as they always test each individual lot of powder thoroughly to establish correct loading parameters prior to using it during production. Nonetheless, It is a good practice to re-check your powder measure settings to throw the desired weight every time you open a can of a different lot of the same powder, or if you have mixed lot numbers of the same powder.