I saw a Nighthawk Custom blow up in shooters hand

[MyDads38]

At 58 years old and 35+ years at reloading, I'm not too far behind your "group". When I started my venture into reloading, I had no one to ask questions or to mentor me. I was on my own and scared to death! Guess being "overly cautious" has been a good thing, since I've never had an issue with anything I've ever loaded. I don't load max loads, just range/plinking loads. Even so, one missed step, or one glance away or distraction; can result in just this scenario.

I'm glad everyone involved is fine, sans a few brass fragments. A few years ago, I was shooting with a guy from work, who reloads his own ammo. He's always saying how "OCD" he is. He was shooting his Sig 9mm. He had a Fail to Feed (round wouldn't fully chamber), dropped mag, cleared round, tried again-another FTF as before. Good thing the round wouldn't chamber-the previous round was a squib and the bullet was lodged in the barrel, just past the chamber! Had he been able to chamber another round, he would've had a kaboom, and I would've been close enough to know first hand! Needless to say, we don't shoot together any more and I would never trust his reloads-even in his own pistol. I don't shoot anyone else's reloads and don't buy Re-Man ammo either (bad experience with 45 acp Re-Man in my Ruger SR1911 FS).

Threads like these and threads with pics of blown up guns, keep me on my toes! Thanks for sharing, and hope you still have fun at the range

 

[ladder13]

Safety glasses are a must, I even wear safety glasses when hunting.

 

[shotgun693]

A bit of ruptured case in the chamber would not let the round load into the chamber. I have doubts about a double charge. I'm betting the case was a bit short and didn't take a good crimp. When the round fed into the chamber the bullet was shoved deeper into the case. This would easily cause a spike in pressure and blowout the case as was described.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
I have seen this before.
This kind of thing was why packmyre grips were recommended
when hot loading 45acp [like 451D/45-08 etc]
The packs have a steel insert that would cover the opening in
the frame.
All that is needed is a well used case,a higher pressure loading
[powder or bullet set back] and a bit to much smoothing of the
feed ramp [ unsupport the case]
The case lets go, the extractor jumps the rim [ because the case has not yet released from the chamber] the hot gass blows down into the grip removing the mag base plate, damaging the top shell, dumping the rest on the floor.
If the grips do not have a steel backing or insert, they will shatter.
My relative had this happen with a commander.
The cases were so used that the head stamp was unreadable.

 

[venomballistics]

We had to get pliers to pull magazine from well. The Bbl. did not appear to have any damage, nor did the slide. I suggested he either send it back to Nighthawk or have competent gunsmith magnaflux the Bbl. Barrys ammo, gun owners, reloads blew up the gun (his gun). He just asked Joe if he wanted to shoot it? Ammo and gun were, indeed, same owner. Pistol assembled back and seemed to functionally flawlessly. Key word seemed. Only known damage was the completely blown magazine and fractured wooden grip panels. These were blown completely off of the pistol.

This description points more to faulty brass than a reloading error (inspecting brass not withstanding)

When you said Unique and double charge in a 45 auto. it's usually impossible. the charge and bullet just won't fit.

 

[Doubless]

Gentlemen, that is exactly why I am a proponent of an auto-indexing press if one is loading progressive. It is almost impossible to double-charge a case if one is paying attention IF the press auto-indexes with every stroke.

And I also believe you can take 11 grains of Unique and compress it enough to seat a 45 projectile to length. Unique compresses pretty well, in my experience.

I am just very thankful no one was injured!

 

[silentflyer]

I never load with any powder that will permit a double charge, any powder I use will flow out of the case if its a double charge. Also I ALWAYS check the cases with a flashlight before I insert the bullet in the case. 2400,4227,296/H110 and Unique are large volume powders by nature, no Bullseye or 230 etc. near my reload bench.

 

[shotgun693]

And I also believe you can take 11 grains of Unique and compress it enough to seat a 45 projectile to length.

Rather than 'believing' so, try it. Let us know if it's possible.

 

[kbm6893]

My case is upside down in the funnel as I weight every charge. I check to make sure the case is empty and then seat the bullet. Do that 50 times and then crimp them all. No chance of double charging because once the powder is dropped the case gets a bullet immediately.

 

[Doubless]

Rather than 'believing' so, try it. Let us know if it's possible.

I am working on the road and all my handloading gear is about 550 miles away. But I will try it as soon as I get back home.

However: if you are close to your toys and have some Unique, I welcome you to prove me wrong...

I just know that Freedom Arms put enough Bullseye in a 45 Auto case to get a chronographed 2000 fps out of one of their revolvers, and they were shooting a 230-grain hardball projectile. So there! No less than the late Marty Smith told me that to my face back in the late 90s.

 

[muddocktor]

First, I am glad your buddy didn't suffer significant injury when this happened.

Like others have said in this thread, if the powder was Unique, I kind of doubt that it was a double charge in that 45 ACP case as that would be instantly evident when setting the bullet on top of the case to seat it. I feel that something else had to have happened like a bullet setting back severely when chambering or a defective or weak case.

This does bring home to me as to why I don't reload with small volume powders in big cases though. Since my old progressive is an old Dillon RL-450 with no auto anything, if is kind of easy to double charge if you aren't paying attention and using something like Tightgroup in a 357 or 44 case and not notice it until you gun goes hand grenade. Your auto calibers aren't as bad as they are generally much shorter and a double charge more readily visible, but revolver calibers such as 357, 41 and 44 Mag are a lot harder to see a double charge with small volume powder charges.

 

[venomballistics]

While I can't rule out a bullet setback event entirely, the account details all parts of the gun seemingly perfectly in tact and functional.
Just grip panels and a mag as casualties.
The chamber held the pressure without failing, or it'd have at least wedged hard and hopelessly open on a swollen barrel.
Case failure is where I'd start the investigation ... it'll probably end there too.

 

[dmar]

You guys are all missing it... I smell a rat. Something happened here, and it's no accident. Here's my take:

Barry has long held a grudge against old Joe. Maybe it was the incident at the Christmas party back in 1993 that Barry never quite got over. Or, maybe it was that Joe would stick Barry with the bill at the diner each week. But, this is clearly a set up... "Joe, how would you like to shoot my Nighthawk," indeed. This needs to be looked into!

Glad Joe is ok, the gun can be replaced!

 

[Biginge]

You guys are all missing it... I smell a rat. Something happened here, and it's no accident. Here's my take:

Barry has long held a grudge against old Joe. Maybe it was the incident at the Christmas party back in 1993 that Barry never quite got over. Or, maybe it was that Joe would stick Barry with the bill at the diner each week. But, this is clearly a set up... "Joe, how would you like to shoot my Nighthawk," indeed. This needs to be looked into!

Glad Joe is ok, the gun can be replaced![/QUOTE

Dmar, you may be on to something. They generally don't have a lot of compliments for each other. Haven't for 40 years.

 

[oger]

I've double charged using a 550 Dillon it's not that hard to do if the priming system is playing games with you and get flustered at it. Just lucky it was an extremely lite target load 3.5 gr 231 and an H&G 68 and I shot it out of a Ruger Commander. There was no damage to the pistol but the brass case is now in my collection of stupid things I have done.

 

[NJM15]

First of all, Mods, if you feel this would be better served in reloading forum please move. I just thought the message might send the safety message to more readers in the Lounge.

Last Friday out group of "oldtimers" were having our regular breakfast and then to the range. We all reload and are not exactly "new to the sport".

I had finished shooting my three revolvers and was loading my stuff in the truck. I watched Barry hand Joe his Nighthawk Custom .45acp to shoot. Joe laid 6 in almost the same hole. I was impressed with this offhand group at 10yds. When he touched off the 7th round the pistol flew about 6 feet down range and pieces went in several directions. Joe hollered "it blew up." I grabbed towel and first aid kit and went to his side.

I fully expected to see tendons, etc. hanging everywhere. Hand was fine. Many small, almost razor nicks all over his cheeks and forehead. Trifocals chipped all to hell. Not safety glasses. He pulled his jeans down and had a bruise/cut just above his right knee. HE WAS VERY LUCKY. The magazine base plate hit his thigh hard enough to put a large abrasion just above the knee.

We feel that it was a double charge of unique in the round with the ruptured case that was stuck in bbl. Explosion blew off base plate and spring of magazine as well as both wood grips. I found the base plate and spring not far from bench. Along with another .45 acp case blown all to hell (terribly ruptured) With unfired primer intact.

As best we can tell.

1/ Double charged/ruptured case remained in bbl. (drove it out with brass rod. )

2/ Explosion blew slide back and ignited next, and final round from magazine thusly blowing off base plate, etc. Actually the grip frame became a combustion chamber for the last round. We never did find the bullet.

This threw a wet blanket on our Friday parade.

Boys, we can never be too careful. Reloading, wearing proper safety equipment, eyes, ears, etc.

Joe was lucky.

This event made a real impression on my old self.

Lets be careful out there cause Joe was lucky don't mean the next one will be so fortunate.

Only the best.

That's one reason why I line mine up under a light to check the powder level in each case I experienced a similar problem, didn't blow up but almost took my M&P 40 out of my hand.

 

[petepeterson]

You guys are all missing it... I smell a rat. Something happened here, and it's no accident. Here's my take:

Barry has long held a grudge against old Joe. Maybe it was the incident at the Christmas party back in 1993 that Barry never quite got over. Or, maybe it was that Joe would stick Barry with the bill at the diner each week. But, this is clearly a set up... "Joe, how would you like to shoot my Nighthawk," indeed. This needs to be looked into!

Glad Joe is ok, the gun can be replaced!

It would be hardcore to blow up your own high-end 1911 to get revenge...

 

[venomballistics]

It would be hardcore to blow up your own high-end 1911 to get revenge...

your right ...
Can't you just feel the cold festering hate just ooze from the screen

 

[Misskimo]

Huh. Might also think. Reloaded a Split cases.

 

[H Richard]

Many years ago when I had not been reloading very long I was looking over filled 38 cases in my loading block. I was loading Unique, and loading from a RCBS measure. In the 2nd row I noticed a very low amount of powder, and the very next case was up just shy of the case mouth. If I hadn't been paying attention, I could have set a bullet on it and loaded it. What happened was the powder being bulky "bridged" in the drop tube, and dropped only a partial load. Then the next load contained both the left over from the drop tube and the full next load, aprox 1 1/2 or 1 2/3 loads. Shortly thereafter I switched to Win 231 which meters excellently, and have not had a problem since. I have experienced the same phenomenon with some rifle powders and it is usually easy to notice that as it will overfill the 2nd case, but that is why I still load rifle cases on a single stage loader into a loading block that I can look down into and see what is happening.

 

[JJP161]

Thank-you very much for sharing and thank God your friend was not seriously injured. Its a valuable lesson you share with us and ultimately we can also loose concentration for just moment. One little distraction, one moment the mind drifts and it could become a very hard lesson. Thank-you very much for sharing.

 

[Steve C]

IMO the progressive presses have been the cause of many current KB's. Too many things going on at the same time and even a careful loader can fail to see an error, partially operate the handle, back up the feed and double charge. If using a auto case feeder you don't handle the cases as much and a week or cracked case is more likely to get by if the loader isn't meticulous about their case QA.

Even manufacturers that have much more sophisticated high tech safeguards in their QA to eliminate overcharges and other defects will send out the occasional round that can KB a pistol or rifle. Remember a 6 sigma producer only makes one defect in 1 million product produced but when you make billions of rounds that's 1,000's of errors.

I hear guys brag about how many rounds they can load on their progressive and it worries me, specially if they're new to reloading, because if your goal is to just crank out lots of ammo you aren't doing much QA.

I have a Hornady LNL and I can reload maybe 2x as fast as I do on my single stage while being very careful to observe every stage of the process. I always look at the powder drop and do a weight check every 10 to 15 rounds or on anything that doesn't look right.

The good thing is its relatively difficult to get seriously injured by an exploding round in a gun unless you're very unlucky, not wearing safety glasses. People standing next to you rather than behind you are in more danger from the shrapnel. In my life I've heard of many KB's, seen many KB results but can only remember one death and that was from a couple college students that where shooting a shotgun and thought it would be a good idea to take out the shot from the shell so the recoil wouldn't hurt them. Stuck a wad or two and must have set of a fully loaded that split and fragmented the barrel. One of the guys standing next to the shooter got a piece of the barrel through the jugular and died. That was in the mid 60's. Lot more people are injured or killed by shooting themselves or others accidentally.

 

[SuperMan]

Saw this exact same thing happen about 4 years ago. Was running a line of shooters each shooting the exercise one person at a time. Older gentlemen using a Glock 21 had double charged a case with Unique. I was looking at the gun when he pulled the trigger...frame split and blew the magazine out. One small cut on his hand. Gun had to go back to Glock for frame replacement. He is in his 70s and gave up reloading shortly thereafter.

In this case if the top round on the magazine had not detonated there would have been little more than broken grips. I have had a few .38 Super cases blow the web over the years and the worst that ever happened was a broke set of grips.

One thing I have tried to do is match a powder to the velocity that I am trying to obtain so if I double charge a case the powder charge will be right up to the case mouth or overflow...

Glad no one was seriously hurt...

Bob